Comments

1
To be fair, Dan, isn't Obama's position "I personally believe marriage is one man/one woman, but my view is evolving but my personal internal beliefs really shouldn't matter anyway because I've long been on the record as saying DOMA is completely unconstitutional and needs repealled".

I think don't think Obama so much as plays a marriage opponant on TV so much as to hide behind the fact he's a constitutional scholar.
2
Wonderfully composed, great timing. Thank you!
3
I breezed past the red kettles outside my grocery store just this weekend. I felt bad, because Denver has A LOT of homeless people, but I'm not gonna donate through that organization. They skeeve me out.
4
It's nice of the SA to set up all those trash cans; they're so handy.
5
LGBT people make up a larger percentage of homeless youth than in the general population. Charities that purport to help street people should be actively reaching out to them, not shutting them out.
6
Thanks Dan. Every time a bell ringer by a Salvation Army kettle I take their picture and tweet it out with a message about which business is promoting the Salvation Army's anti-gay views. I also ask the bell ringers if they are aware that of the Salvation Army's anti-gay views. Most of them aren't. I also won't shop at a business that has a Salvation Army bell ringer present.
7
What's next, boycotting Santa because he didn't give you that double-ended dildo you wanted for Christmas?
8
Almost every city has a food bank that desperately needs donations and that doesn't discriminate. This year we gave our holiday donation to Project Open Hand in SF, providing meals for the severely ill and the elderly.

It isn't hard to find charities that don't discriminate. And there is always the Red Cross. Because if you are ever faced with a disaster it will most likely be the Red Cross who is there to offer you aid first, not the SA.
9
Give locally. Lambert House in Seattle is a great charity.
10
If you want to donate to a charity that provides direct assistance to LGBT homeless youth, you can start with Youthcare. They operate the Orion Center in Seattle, and the ISIS House, which is transitional housing specifically for homeless LGBT kids.
www.youthcare.org

Any organization that supposedly provides services to the homeless, but that denies service to homeless LGBT families and youth, is unbelievably cruel.

There is no shortage of need, and plenty of organizations around that don't discriminate. Choose wisely who you want to support with your charity.
11
I have a bad feeling about this thread.
12
@1 - Obama's position is not to force same-sex individuals to sleep on the street.

Maybe local LBGT-friendly organizations can stand next to the Salvation Army people with signs reading "they discriminate against LGBT people, we don't". It's definitely unethical, but, if the campaign works, wouldn't hurting SA's bottom line force them to reconsider their stances on homosexuality? I mean, even YMCA (the C stands for Christian) is pro-LGBT (http://www.ymcaglbt.org). SA needs to get with the fucking program. Maybe even independent actors can stand next to the SA people and give out information how to donate to LGBT-friendly organizations (like these people: http://www.youthcare.org/about-youthcare).

This is my most parenthetical post ever.
13
SA's stance on this is especially frustrating given their history. They were founded to provide assistance to people living on the street specifically because other churches were too uptight to even let them in the doors. And now they've become one of those uptight churches who refuses to help people because of their blinkered dogma. It pisses me off even more than other bigoted churches because THEY SHOULD FUCKING KNOW BETTER.
14
I had no idea that the SA was like that! I just (yesterday) donated an armoire to them. Damn.
15
My usual charities are Northwest Harvest (http://www.northwestharvest.org), the Northwest Network (http://nwnetwork.org), and the Lambert House (http://www.lamberthouse.org), and I take part in the Lifelong AIDS Alliance (http://www.llaa.org/) Care to Shop events when I can. There is a lot that can be done to help people in our communities without giving one red cent to bigots out to destroy us.
16
Is it fair to say that the American Red Cross doesn't discriminate against LGBT people, when they won't take my blood because I am a 'man who has had sex with men', even though they are forced to discriminate by the rule of law?
17
Our local SA bell ringer pots have a restrictive double cross (lol) slot in the top. So fold the vouchers with one dimension of less than 1". I think those will fit.
18
@16 They won't talk my blood because I'm British. Damn their anti-bad teeth discrimination :)

I'm conflicted over the SA - they basically helped raise one of my best friends during her formative years when her father died, they took her and her mother in. So they'll always get something from me just for that. I balance it up with giving to other places.
19
Just want to add that Obama's HUD secretary supports marriage equality.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/11/oba…
20
I'm not going to boycott my local post office, where there are always SA ringers. I got packages to send. And I'm not going to use GOP-lovin' UPS or FedEx.
21
@20: So nod to the bell ringers, wish them a merry Christmas, and walk on by. SA ringers are typically very poor people getting paid a fixed rate to do a crummy job. You're not obligated to contribute.
22
@16, the Red Cross policy on blood donations is an issue, but is a federally inflicted one, not one of their own choosing. I don't think you can blame them when they are forced to discriminate by law.

What matters is that they don't discriminate in the aid they give. They also don't discriminate when it comes to hiring and treatment of employees.

I think the blanket ban on gay people donating blood is ridiculous. But what matters much more is that there is no discrimination against gay people receiving the blood when then need it.

In both hiring and the services they provide the Red Cross does not discriminate, and are the number one aid organization in the US. That makes them a good choice for donations in my book.
23
People look at me funny when I tell them I don't donate to the Salvation Army because of their discriminatory practices, but I don't care.

Instead, I give my money (and suggest others give to them instead) to Youth Oasis, the only shelter in the greater Baton Rouge area to accept teenagers (and they don't discriminate: http://www.youthoasis.org/home), and Montrose Grace Place in Houston, which is a new ministry of one of they churches in my synod, and whose mission is "not to evangelize, convert, judge or shame, but to provide a safe, welcoming environment for vulnerable homeless youth of all sexualities and gender identities, providing nourishment, healthy relationships and hope for the future (http://www.gracelutheran-houston.org/p/g…).
24
@8: "It isn't hard to find charities that don't discriminate."

Someone with much better web skills than me should make a site with "alternatives to the Salvation Army", with links to charities that don't discriminate in practice (no matter what the assholes in charge of the SA *claim* to practice.)
25
From Wikipedia:

On June 1, 2010, the Washington, DC City Council passed a resolution calling on the FDA to "reverse the lifetime deferment of blood donations by men who have had sex with men since 1977 in favor of a policy that protects the safety and integrity of the blood supply that is based on an up-to-date scientific criteria.

So things are apparently likely to change.
26
Years and years ago when I was homeless I was kicked out of the William Booth center here in Seattle (it's on South Maynard Street) because I am gay. One of the workers for the SA saw me come back to the center from a date with another guy. I was kicked out that night at 2am in the middle of December. (they were kind enough to wait a few hours so I was already in bed and alseep to give me the boot)
27
As frustrating as the anti-LGBT policies of the Salvation Army are, the damned organization does do some decent things. When Katrina struck New Orleans, the SA was on the ground with aid long before the Red Cross even organized their volunteer training. In fact the SA has trumped the RC in many disaster relief efforts.

I did give them $100 for Katrina, and am still on their mailing list. I'm thinking of making another donation, contingent on their local commander sitting down with me for 10 minutes to discuss LGBT policy. We can't reach them if we don't try to do it on a personal level.

Meanwhile, if anyone on east side of the country is looking for a charity to support that houses homeless gay youth, have a look at the Ali Forney Center. They're for real. They're in New York City, but heck, that's where a lot of homeless kids head.
28
There's a guy here in Anchorage trying to break a bell ringing record. He's been at a Walmart for a little over 24 hours. I thought I heard him say the record was 36 hours.

I was a poster child for the local newspaper in 1965 for Toys for Tots. That's when the Marines asked for used and new toys.
29
This is a sad and low campaign from Salvation Army. If I would have known this I would have Never volunteered with them in Missouri. There was no disclaimer on any of the forms about sexual identity. Just goes to show that before you give time or money you need to research the organization
30
The other day I was walking straight past the SA bell ringer (as I always do) when the thought occurred to me:

By just walking past greeters, we don't look like we're protesting the SA policies, but just another scrooge; By chastising the bell-ringer, we accomplish nothing since they have little to no sway within the organization, and they are probably not going to send along our concerns anyway... so what to do?

Then I remembered a story I read on slog- it was about an obnoxious Christian who left a tip at a restaurant that appeared to be a folded up $5 bill, but once unfolded, was a church flyer. We could have some of those made up, but instead it would say something like, "This would have been a 5 dollar bill, but I cannot support your homophobic policies." If all of us dropped these into the SA collection plates we passed, it would show them exactly how much funding they're missing out on, and wouldn't involve the blameless greeters at all. Perfect!
31
My great grandmother was a Salvation Army lady. Mostly because her husband was a drunk and the only way a respectable woman could go into taverns in those days was as an SA lady. So she'd put on her uniform and go out to find great grandpapa Vel-DuRay

But let's not forget the Union Gospel Mission. They're as bad as the SA. Worse actually, since they closed their thrift store, which actually helped people (other than the christian muzak they played) and, in doing so, killed downtown Kent.
32
Does anyone in this world have the right to an opinion - no matter how repugnant we might think it is? Whenever someone exhibits an opinion that we don't agree with, then what we need to do is take an action which will negate their opinion. I.E. Open our doors to gay homeless couples. This world would be an intolerable and unlivable place if only our opinions were allowed.
33
Does anyone in this world of OURS deserve the right to an opinion or a way of life regardless of how repugnant it may seem to us? What a strange, boring and bizarre place we would live in if everyone thought the same, looked the same and acted the same. Gay people demand the right to be who and what they are but apparently others don't have that right. When someone expresses an opinion which differs from ours, we should instigate an action which would negate their opinion. I.E. Open our homes to a homeless gay couple. Show everyone that we not only disagree verbally but are willing to put our money where our mouths are - so to speak. If we all did this, gay homelessness would disappear overnight. Just a thought!
34
The Salvation Army in Canada and Bermuda have a different stance on the rights of gays and lesbians. I'm an atheist myself, but I do like it when organized religions put forth a message to encourage tolerance. Not that there aren't many other wonderful charities worthy of your donations, but I just thought it was worth pointing out. Read their official release here... http://www.salvationarmyethics.org/posit…
35
your money would be more efficiently spent just handing it over to a homeless person. If they use it to buy something that you'd rather they didn't, at least it's not going to pay the salaries of the officers of the SA.
36
@30
Another reason the Stranger should print money. For SA specific purposes there could be a scroll reading "Not Legal, Not Tender, Respect All Humans And We'll Give You Real Money."
37
It's not surprising that they act this way. Just think about their name. They think that by actIng according to an arbitrary set of rules they got from a severely edited and many-times translated book from 2000 years ago, they will receive an all-access pass to eternal Disneyland. If you're going to buy that, you have to buy the whole crazy package. It's stated clearly at the end of that quote on the voucher. Being okay with gays makes the whole thing crumble.
38
The American Red Cross routinely mismanages funds. If you want to give to disaster relief, donate to the international Red Cross.

And I'm not trying to shit on Toys for Tots generally (all kids need toys and playtime for basic human development), but that's an inappropriate alternative for the Salvation Army. Toys are useless to the homeless and hungry.
39
@32: "This world would be an intolerable and unlivable place if only our opinions were allowed."

What a stupidly passive response to intolerance and cruelty.

We should be opening our doors AND fighting bigots wherever possible.
40
I mean, lord knows we wouldn't want to come across as RUDE to the intolerant and cruel.
41
I disagree with this. When I mentioned the post to a Salvation Army employee I know they said that they have the policy of never refusing service to anyone because of sexual orientation. I believe him. I think that the examples given are horrible cases of a prejudiced employee refusing service and their managers not intervening. In every company or organization are going to be horrible people who discriminate (Seattle PD anyone?). I think instead of calling on people to not donate to an organization who does do amazing things, call on them to fire those employees who refuse service to gay or lesbian people.
42
@41,

The organization also has a record of actively lobbying governments worldwide for anti-gay policies - including an attempt to make consensual gay sex illegal.


When you donate to the Salvation Army, your money is used for anti-gay lobbying.

And an organization that offers services without discriminating would already be firing the bigots in its midst. It's also telling that the Salvation Army itself hasn't responded to these allegations.
43
@41, I have heard too many of these stories to write it off as just a few bad employees.

But even if that were the case it doesn't address that the Salvation Army has tried to circumvent anti-discrimination laws that would prevent them from being able to discriminate against gay people in employment.

It doesn't negate the fact that they donated money to support Prop 8 in California (money that could have gone to feed the hungry, but apparently stopping loving same sex couples from marrying is more important than feeding and housing the homeless).

The Salvation Army uses donations to fight gay rights.

Read the actual link to Bill Browning's blob that Dan provided:

•When New Zealand considered passage of the Homosexual Law Reform Act in 1986, the Salvation Army collected signatures in an attempt to get the legislation killed. The act decriminalized consensual sex between gay men. The measure passed over the charity's objections.

•In the United Kingdom, the Salvation Army actively pushed passage of an amendment to the Local Government Act. The amendment stated that local authorities "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship." The law has since been repealed, but it led many schools and colleges to close LGBT student organizations out of fear they'd lose their government funding.

•In 2001, the organization tried to extract a resolution from the White House that they could ignore local non-discrimination laws that protected LGBT people. While the commitment would have applied to all employees, the group claimed that it needed the resolution so it "did not have to ordain sexually active gay ministers and did not have to provide medical benefits to the same-sex partners of employees." After lawmakers and civil rights activists revealed the Salvation Army's active resistance to non-discrimination laws, the White House admitted the charity was seeking the exemptions.

•Also in 2001, the evangelical charity actively lobbied to change how the Bush administration would distribute over $24 billion in grants and tax deductions by urging the White House deny funding to any cities or states that included LGBT non-discrimination laws. Ari Fleischer, White House press secretary, issued a statement saying the administration was denying a "regulation sought by the church to protect the right of taxpayer-funded religious organizations to discriminate against homosexuals."

•In 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city's decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees.

As well as his own account of being discriminated against by the SA when he sought help from them.

http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_…
44
35

Butt you could just cut out the Middle Man totally by directly sharing some of your pot or crack stash with the homeless guy...
46
Liberals just LOVE too go on about what charities they won't support.

It is a long list, since Liberals are the most selfish stingy demographic slice of humanity....
47
I find it interesting that with just a teensy tiny but if ingenuity I found a single argument to this article. I'm a centrist who doesn't believe in black and white. A christian who believes in freedom of all religious beliefs. A christian who believes in not judging, which includes everyone not just those who agree with you. A christian who believes in tolerance for others beliefs and rights as well as love for all of gods creations whether I agree with their lifestyles or not they are beautiful. I believe the salvation army has the right to not agree with yours as well as you not agreeing with theirs. They'd what makes this country awesome, we have that right. I have friends and family that all have a myriad of beliefs and I love them all for it. Especially when we disagree, LOL. So that said, I'm also the person who snopes every chain letter I get. So what did I do when I read this? Googled, sorry bingers, sa official stance on homosexuality. You should all read it on their page. Sheds a slightly different light on this article. I do not believe its passive at all to agree to disagree. But I do believe in checking all facts and angles before making a choice. Don't stop giving to any charity based on one account ask around, talk to your local charities and ask them straight up, what their policies are. I don't go to churches who are intolerant and I won't give to charities who are either but I haven't seem any proof here, especially in light of sa's statement to stop me right now. I will however look further in to this and if I find this is factual here in my local area you will not see me dropping money in the little red bucket.
48
@47: The international lobbying efforts of the Salvation Army are put towards removing the human rights of gays and overturning any civil rights victories of the last twenty years or so all over the world. Don't just look into your local chapter, look at what they're doing everywhere.
49
Or the United Way. They have that down there don't they?

They're a secular charity that does neither:

1) Discriminate against homos.
2) Actively attempts to convert the most vulnerable to their church.

They also do a lot for the homeless.
50
AmericaBlog, that Dan so often links to, is running ads for the Salvation Army with the slogan "Doing the Most Good".
51
I spent several years working in the non-profit sector for an organization that provides homeless services. The Salvation Army is most assuredly not the only game in town. Anyone that really wants to donate to a homeless charity that doesn't discriminate should not have any trouble finding one.
52
#49

While the United Way is a secular charity, they are horribly run. They are more interested in maximizing their operating budget than maximizing the help they can offer the community. I used to work in a county where the United Way produced a paper directory of non-profit services that organizations could use to refer those in need of services to the right organization. The problem with this paper directory is that it was expensive to produce and was only updated once a year. So the local non-profits got together and decided to produce a website that served the same function, sort of a google for health and human services. In addition to being cheaper to produce, the website was superior in that service providers could log in to the site and update their details at any time. So the website was in place for several years, and everyone raved about how superior it was to the former paper directory. But the United Way was pissed about losing the money from their operating budget. After a few years, they used their political influence to get the local government to agree to fund a new paper directory, produced by them of course, even though the paper directory was essentially worthless. It was redundant and wasteful of extremely limited resources. This is but one example of the United Way doing such a thing. Most non-profits have little use for the United Way. They use their might to get funding for worthless programs.
53
@52: "While the United Way is a secular charity, they are horribly run."

The Salvation Army is a religious organization and therefore does not report its efficiency as a nonprofit.
54
You have to be a very narrow minded fool to boycott the SA just because they don't believe in gay marriage. If you're going to allow politics to run your life then you will always find something to be unhappy about. The reality is the SA provides food and shelter to anyone willing to listen to a little Jesus BS. If you are hungry and cold enough, you will get off your high gay horse and suck it up. By boycotting an organization that helps people, you have now given all the power to Goodwill stores which are WAAAAAY more corrupt on so many levels than the SA. Goodwill baits and switches prices, discriminates against anyone they please especially the disabled, yet stupid fucks like you feel better donating your stuff there and shopping there over SA. The CEO's at Goodwill make $600,000+ per year compared to the modest $20-30,000 salary range at SA which is a true non-profit wage. Do your research before you write off an entire organization just on the bias of your beliefs.
55
@54, They don't just not support same sex marriage, they actively donated money to fight for same sex marriage rights. They have also fought to have anti discrimination legislation that protects gay people overturned. It is not just a difference of opinion. It is that they actively pursue policies that harm gay people.

When you donate money to the SA part of that money is being used to help deny rights to gay people.

The fools are gay people who donate money to organizations that then use that money to hurt them.

There are plenty of other organizations than either SA or Goodwill. Organizations that aren't run by a bunch of right wing religious fanatics.

And EVERYONE makes decisions based on their beliefs. The only alternative to making decisions based on your beliefs is to make decisions based on someone else's beliefs, and THAT is truly foolish.

If you want to donate to the SA go ahead. I am not because I am smart enough that when my enemy has finished hurling the stones and arrows at me I don't go offer to buy them more.

I'll continue to give to the Red Cross, the Larkin Youth Shelter, and the Shriner's Children's hospital (where any child under 18 can receive treatment for orthopedic conditions, burns, spinal chord injuries and other problems regardless of their family's ability to pay, and without needing to sit through a sermon). Anyone who has a problem with me donating to charities that I actually respect rather than to the SA can go F*#% themselves.
56
@54: "You have to be a very narrow minded fool to boycott the SA just because they don't believe in gay marriage. If you're going to allow politics to run your life then you will always find something to be unhappy about. "

Politics does run our lives, for you to deny this shows the true willfully-ignorant fool. Ignorance is bliss.
57
I am part of the SA in a very gay friendly town. My father is on the board. People, please understand that not everything you read on the Internet is true. The SA I belong to would never turn anyone away based on sexual orientation. They have their beliefs as an organization because they are a church and like most churches, they do not support gay marriage. But they do not denounce or attack it either. That is not a Christian attitude. The SA is a completely non profit organization who will give assistance to anyone who needs it regardless of race, religion, or sexuality.
Also, the bell ringers are volunteers, people who willingly stand in the cold for hours to help raise funds for their community.
Lastly, I don't know anything about the other charities mentioned, but the Red Cross is truly evil. I had worked with them as well, but they are a profitable company, assisted Germany during WWII, and used the money donated to the 9-11 fund to buy new computers instead of helping the families that money was intended for.
Please don't skip the SA kettles this year. We need your help. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. God Bless you all.
58
@ SA volunteer
Except what you say isn't true. The SAs attempts to circumvent laws protecting gay rights are in the public record. And they DO attack sane sex marriage. They supported prop 8 in CA.

And we have first hand accounts from several sources of actual discriminination against gay people.

That in your little corner of the SA world you don't see it first hand doesn't change the fact that it happens and that the SA shares part of the responsibility for prop 8.

And really, just the fact that they preach that bein gay is Erin is reason enough. Sure, they have a right to preach what they want, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. If they have the right to say my relationship is sinful then I have the right to tell them to fuck off, to not give my charitable donations to them, and to encourage others to not give money to an organization that gives a clear anti gay message.

It's noteven like the boycott is hurting the bastards. Donations arent exactly down. But my contributions to help people through organizations that don't preach against me.

As for the red cross, there was an apartment fire near me a few days ago. And once again, the first in the scene offer aid to the many displaced families was the Red Cross. I that's evil then I'm all for evil.

Support who you want, but I'm not giving a cent to any organization that preaches against me. My donations still go to help people in need, which is what matters. I prefer to avoid giving to any religious organization.
59
That should have read 'a sin'. Not 'Erin'. Damn auto correct.
60
@57: "People, please understand that not everything you read on the Internet is true."

So the SA ISN'T lobbying to revert civil rights legislation worldwide for gays? Because that appears to be extensively documented.

"the Red Cross is truly evil."

The Red Cross is self-serving and I'm not a huge fan, but they're not outright attempting to make the lives of gays worse.
61
@58: "That in your little corner of the SA world you don't see it first hand doesn't change the fact that it happens and that the SA shares part of the responsibility for prop 8."

Right, I'm sure there are "kind", more secular local chapters as necessary to seek donations in very gay-dominated areas, but it's still a very religious organization that has no love for the happiness of gays worldwide, and is only happy if they are not treated as equals while using its donations towards anti-gay causes.
62
On the subject, why is there a sidebar ad for the Salvation Army on Slog?
63
@62: Keyword targeting by the ad network, I assume.
64
Salvation and all others.
Homeless people, ha ha. Why they dont get a job and rent a flat. Cause they are lazy parasites.

all these charities, registered or bogus, no matter which one, makes a big profit, exploitating mostly distributors from easterneuropa. You can be self employed businessman, just buy these bags from charity company, pay them 70 pounds from each tone clothes you sold for 2000 pounds to Lithuanian mafia– thats your profit. All these clothes goes to easterneorope countries and will be sold with great profit. This is all MAFIA not charity.

All donations in cash is stupid idea.

Find people to whoom you want to help and give money in hand.
65
Salvation and all others.
Homeless people, ha ha. Why they dont get a job and rent a flat. Cause they are lazy parasites.

all these charities, registered or bogus, no matter which one, makes a big profit, exploitating mostly distributors from easterneuropa. You can be self employed businessman, just buy these bags from charity company, pay them 70 pounds from each tone clothes you sold for 2000 pounds to Lithuanian mafia– thats your profit. All these clothes goes to easterneorope countries and will be sold with great profit. This is all MAFIA not charity.

All donations in cash is stupid idea.

Find people to whoom you want to help and give money in hand.
66
I wouldn't recommend donating money to the red cross, as the CEO enjoys a hefty $650,000 salary, including paid holidays and all expenses incurred by her, her husband and children. She also enjoys 100% dental and health insurance for her and her entire family for life. A very small portion per dollar donated actually goes towards any relief. There are new stories every week about the red cross providing help and relief and then demanding compensation. During wwII they charged soldiers for everything from food to sweaters; all donated items.
67
I would just like to point out that Obama is all for Gay rights. Why the hell are there Obama bashers here?
68
Salvation Army is not anti gay. They help everyone who asks. They do not ask your sexuality when you do ask for help. They have been of help to me when I needed it and did not care about my orientation. I have since found out that they are unmatched when it comes to how much of their donations go to the cause of helping the less fortunate. Dan Savage's problem is they are pro Christ and Dan has made it quite clear his hatred for anything "Christian" no mater the good it may be doing.

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