HISC, hang in there -- I hope you have love and support from your parents. Times are shitty for many, and I hope you can get through the holidays and start of 2012 with a little bit of optimism. I think Dan gives good advice here. Especially agree (as a woman) that there will be women that would appreciate honesty and be willing to give it a go if you are upfront about your circumstances. Not sure what to say about the married woman, but maybe try to be honest with yourself and trust your instincts. Merry Christmas. Good luck to you!

Dan or whoever on staff is on Slog: could you please delete comment #1? No one needs that shit.

My advice to HISC is that he needs to spend time becoming comfortable with himself alone, really alone. If it's possible to find a small apartment it will help, no matter how tiny or crappy having your own place as an adult makes you feel different and more confident than living with your parents. Take that college educated ass to some adult education classes on a hobby you think you might enjoy (hey and if it's one that can bring in a little extra cash at a farmer's market or Etsy even better but enjoyment first). Set some realistic goals that have nothing to do with being in a relationship, things like "run a 5K this summer", "write a journal entry everyday about something I've learned", "take a cooking class", or "go bowling with friends once a month" things that will make you feel better about yourself.

Once he has his shit together and no longer feels like he NEEDS someone to make his life complete, that it's a want and desire for companionship/sex/whatever that will enrich his life but not solve his problems that he should start dating again. And stay away from married women who aren't in open/poly relationships.

@6 +1

That's almost exactly where I was 2.4 years ago when I met my absolutely wonderful girlfriend through Craigslist. Now we're both un/under-employed and living with Dad, but the one most important thing in life is going well.
I've also met folks through CL who were not for me and I could tell through email, not for me and I knew when I saw the photo, first date went well but she reminded me of my grandma as a young woman, good in every way but not LTR material, awesome but crazy as hell. By the time I met my Love I was heading to meet her and halfway hoping that she'd turn out to be a meter maid or someone else I would never want to give pleasure to, so I'd be off the hook.
Oh well.
Dating isn't fun unless you like that sort of thing, for me it was a pain in the ass.

Disregard the comments from "unregistered." It's one moron troll who posts under multiple user names and spends his spare time masturbating in front of Fox news channel when he isn't condemning everyone else as sinners or moochers.

Oh yeah: so carry on dude.

When I get down this time of year I watch the movie "It's a Wonderful Life." The point of the movie is the truth is that we are so special and valuable in so many ways to people we can't always appreciate it. We so often think about our own lives, we don't see clearly the contributions we can and do make to other's lives, even if we are not aware of it. But if you take one day at time, all will work out in the end. We have to all do this together. Merry Christmas. :)

Dear HISC,

I'm so sorry. My condolences for the loss of your spouse and career. I hope you will have a brighter 2012. I'll second getting involved in activities outside: community service, hobby, adult education. Not only will you find opportunities to admire your successes, but you'll also get to meet others who share your interests. Perhaps begin making plans to find your own place and look into online sites for dating. Your life has taken a rough turn or two, but you have much to offer and offer it with integrity and humor. I wish you joy. Good luck and keep your chin up. It is hard to keep our chins up sometimes, but it is the only way to look into the future.

Take care.
k

Merry Christmas everyone...except 1, 2, 5, & 15, who can go fuck themselves.

HISC, dear man, hang in there until the bloody motherfucking holdidays are over. It's too easy to drown in sentiment and drawing comparisons, especially when you've lost so much and are kind of biding your time. Ignore the married girlfriend - don't let the vacuum be filled with somebody who doesn't nourish you. And if I may appeal to your enlightened self interest, go find people who are fucked way deeper than you and help them out one way or another. I know, altruism is supposed to be without thought of personal gain, but this is a time of need for you - you have to get your rmind off your own worries now and then, and they need practical assistance you can offer. Try it out, it works.

Again, so sorry for your loss and those that followed. I lost my own beloved decades ago. Nothing will ever make up for that, but the world keeps spinning anyway.

Jesus, please delete #1 and give the trolls an enforced day off.

I think it's time to start looking for companionship somewhere besides this married women. And yes, be honest in a dating profile. Adult children living with their parents is at an all time high, so I'm sure there are many women in your situation. Find a way to be upfront about your situation, but be careful not to be too self pitying. A little self deprecating humor goes a long way. Save info about your wife for when you're actually on a date. It seems tacky to put something so personal in an online profile. Think of a sentence or two that sum up what happened, then transition to a new topic, and make it clear the subject is closed until you get to know the person better. That will help keep your dates from being an awkward pity party.

Don't let this married women distract you from finding someone you can actually be happy with in the long term. Good luck, and I hope things turn around for you in 2012!

I wish I had a way to make this all right for you, HISC. I understand that If there was anything that could be said in a paragraph to make you feel better, I don't think anyone in the history of the written language has come up with it.

That said, there *are* women out there who will find you attractive - sweet, nice, smart, pretty women who will just love the way your eyes light up when you smile or the adorable way that you sneeze. Be clean and well-groomed, and keep slogging through those online personals, and it will happen.

Merry Christmas, good luck, and here's hoping things get better for you sooner rather than later. Keep us posted, ok?

HISC, you've got some good advice from Dan and a few folks in comments.

I'd second the suggestion to do a personal ad, and be honest - but I would add that you should look for a personal site that allows you to look for folks that you can form friendships with, rather than a straight-up dating site. Not that you shouldn't consider dating, but starting out building up a network of friends will help with your self-image and give you some support and feel less lonely.

Being out and about and living life is the best way to meet others.

Work on having a group of people to hang out with. Get comfortable meeting new people (without the pressure that every encounter has to lead to a date).

As for your current realtionship, only you can tell if it is worth staying in or letting go.

I know that this is a rough time of year for lots of folks - especially if there are loved ones and/or other special people missing.

Try to hang in there.

Ha @ BetaRayBilly! That's so awesome! You don't seem like a rude cunt who should probably take their own advice at all!

Cunt.

Dear HISC
I'm so sorry for all of your pain. In addition to some of the practical suggestions above, please also consider talking to a doc or doing a screening for depression. (www.depression-screening.org). Sometime life-altering pain (Like the loss of your wife) leaves in its wake a depression which convinces us that life is worthless, we are worthless, and we can't ask for more. And the worst part is that depression makes all of that feel absolutely true even when it isn't. Sometimes a short course of medication can make a WORLD of difference and give us back the feeling that there is something to look forward to and something to believe in. And it gives back the energy to make our lives a place we like to be again. It certainly did for me. Good luck. You aren't alone.
K

When I was unemployed (after taking care of my mom before she died), I didn't feel like dating at all - I did not want to be in a relationship where I felt unequal. However, I would have jumped on the chance to go out with a fellow un/underemployeed person because I wouldn't have to feel insecure about my situation, and we could just enjoy getting to know each other.

One bit of advice about personal ads though - on Craigslist, it seems like the men far outnumber the women. I hardly even bothered reading guys' profiles, because everytime I posted an ad, I got 50-300 responses within 48 hours. So if you put up an ad, don't be discouraged if you don't get any responses. You will probably have to answer the ads from women to get anywhere.

The good news is, you seem like a decent writer! I think that's half the battle right there - when looking through responses to my ads, I would automatically ignore any bad grammer or bad writing, and form letter responses. That would usually eliminate at least 80% of the responses.

So sorry for what you've been through, and best of luck out there.

P.S. - forgot to mention that when I was unemployed, I was also injured (messed up my back while lifting my mom in and out of wheelchairs) and in heavy debt from the medical bills and living expenses. But I did what you're trying to do: I started exercising regularly, which lifted my spirits and helped me lose weight. So that I would feel better about myself, I also dressed carefully, and I spent more time with friends who made me feel good about myself.

In addition, I signed up for a regular volunteer gig at a local nonprofit. The volunteering helped me gain my confidence back - it made me feel useful and appreciated, it gave me something to talk about in social situations when others were talking about work, and it filled the chronological gap in my resume. Eventually, it even led to a job.

With this economy, I know there are many women out there like I used to be. They are loving, fun, attractive, and smart, and a great partner for the long-term, but they don't feel like a prize because their career is temporarily in the dumps. I think you could find one of them, instead of settling for a woman who has so many other priorities in her life ahead of you.

If your wife thought you were something special, and worth settling down with for the long run, chances are good that another woman will see your value too.

Now that I fhink of it, there aren't much better examples of a first-world problem than a registered troll on Slog.

When you know in your heart that the person you want is unattainable and yet you keep going back for more it's time to stop. Move on. There is love for you out there somewhere else and you aren't going to find it until you get out of your current pattern.

Let her go, man. And do not look back.

Your the sort of person for whom no normal relation will do.

Id say, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Seriously, ignore the trolls, HISC. You sound like a good guy facing hard times, and I agree with sweettreehhugger that you come off very well in your writing, so a personals ad, an online profile, or even just emailing others to answer their ads/profiles would probably be a great place to start.

As for the woman you're with, I'm also not one for having affairs with married women with small children, especially not when--as others have mentioned--she doesn't prioritise you at all unless she thinks you're about to run. Maybe first adjust your views to the point that she is to you what you are to her: that may make it easier to leave her and look for someone who will actually meet your needs, and whose needs you can meet. Like other posters have said, dating can be a pain, but there are people out there who will appreciate you for who you are, and understand your current situation, and want the same companionship you're searching for.

I wish you luck whatever you do, and hope 2012 brings some improvement in your job situation and happiness to your life.

I think that as long as you are involved with the current woman, you'll never be in a place to see/recognize/be open to someone who is free to be involved with you.

I know that with so much that has changed in your life, it is probably comforting to hang on to something that feels familiar even though it isn't satisfying and causes you pain. Until you let it go, I think it's going to be hard to change yourself too.

Living life is the best way to feel more like yourself, and as a result have something of YOU to offer to a potential partner. Even though it feels like moving a mountain to even consider hobbies, or other interests, you have to force yourself to do it. One of them might also result in a different job because you'll meet other people who might be looking for folks with your skills. Yes, it seems like a long shot, but not being an active in your life won't change things either.

While you are paying off medical bills and such, you might want to also consider talking to someone regarding the debt to see what your financial options are. Debt management or even getting some of the debt forgiven by the debtors.

You might want to also see if there are some groups of people who've lost their spouses and consider joining one, or at least visiting. You probably can be helpful to people who are in earlier stages of loss than you are, and doing so might also help you.

First, HISC hang in there.

Second, about this troll thing. #27 troll finally actually has a minor point, in a kind of misanthropic sociopath way. #28 though, coup de grâce. Mmwah!

I stand corrected:

Everyone gets a ribbon! You're ALL winners today!

Dear HISC,

I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like your wife was really blessed to have a husband like you, (and like wise).

I am also impressed by your courage for writing this letter and reaching out. I really love Dan's idea of writing an honest personal ad. I think a key thing is for you to be fully accepting and loving of yourself--I'm not saying that you're not. But, radical self-love was an important step for me. I say radical bc sometimes it felt downright insane for me to love myself--as I am no regrets.

I don't think that you need to wait for radical self love before finding a partner (or a job), but it can make the search more enjoyable.

Anyway, my thoughts and my prayers are going out to you.

Xo

That's right, you're all winners! Except Betaraybilly.

HISC, end your involvement with the married woman. The last thing you need in your life right now is the potential for more destructive drama.
Put yourself out there. Whatever you do, don't let yourself fall into a rut of feeling sorry for yourself.

I dunno. I'm reading some red flags about this woman. The push/pull dynamic is unhealthy at best and manipulative at worst. It sounds like she doesn't know what she wants and is willing to risk the stability of her family. Even without knowing much about her, those scream, "Run away," pretty loudly.

I think gus is right to wait out the holidays. And just to reiterate: in this economy living with relatives doesn't make anybody a leper. In other cultures, no one would even blink at it. Hell, having a job at all means you're willing to work hard, even if you, like most of us, thought a degree would be a ticket out of retail hell. That says a lot about your character. Frankly, HISC, you sound like a decent catch.

Hang in there. You're not alone.

To HISC - 40 isn't a spring chicken - she said, clucking - but where you are, isn't forever.
For many the holidays are *not* the most wonderful time of the year. They can be stressful & TV/movies pump us full of expectations of delights both material & human. Not everyone has that, not everyone has access to that. Gus is so right! Holidaze = over soon.

I'm sorry about your wife. What you are doing, though, by being involved with this married lady is being hungry for a meal, & giving yourself a snack. This woman has all the power in the situation. She can never give you what you want & need, as long as the situation is structured as it is. Although you'd be lonely again in the short term, were I in your shoes, I'd end the affair.

Lotsa good advice up there. I second the idea about looking into a grief counseling group & finding some inexpensive interest that'll get you out of the house. Lotsa folks are where you are right now, dependent on others after forging a life for yourself. Finding contentment with that lot is tough, but it can be done.

& eventually - not right away - why not online dating? Prefer OK Cupid to CL myself but sure, nothing's impossible. & the Stranger has personals too.

Happy Christmas to ya, HISC. Be less "C" when & how you can. It's hard being lonely, but it's not as hard being alone.

Actually I find this a little ironic because I always imagined the unregistered troll as being someone pretty much exactly like HISC describes - bitter, abandoned, and alone in middle-age. Only thing is, HISC sounds pretty decent, really, and painfully aware of his own bitterness, while the troll continues to be completely awful to everyone, even on Christmas for fuck's sake.

Anyway, hang in there, HISC, and guys, can we seriously just not allow unregistered comments, already? I don't even know why that option exists.

But yeah... man, HISC, I don't even know. I am also somebody who is constantly oppressed by depression, and I ain't even been through a fraction of what you have. Just try not to let the bitterness own you. My dad, from whom I have inherited so much, is being eaten away a little more each year by this kind of bitterness, and it's just about the worst thing in the world to have to watch, since I can't seem to help no matter what I do. Stay strong, HISC. Change your life however you have to to get some serenity back. Start meditating and volunteering. Get some fulfilment no matter what you have to do. It'll be worth it, I promise, and you very well may meet someone new who won't use you without giving back in return.

Andy Warhol said:

At the times in my life when I was feeling the most gregarious and looking for bosom friendships, I couldn't find any takers so that exactly when I was alone was when I felt the most like not being alone. The moment I decided I'd rather be alone and not have anyone telling me their problems, everybody I'd never even seen before in my life started running after me to tell me things I'd just decided I didn't think it was a good idea to hear about. As soon as I became a loner in my own mind, that's when I got what you might call a "following." As soon as you stop wanting something you get it. I've found that to be absolutely axiomatic.

I'd volunteer at a charitable organization. It will take your mind off your own problems and give you the chance to meet some people with generous spirits. I think you need to meet a generous spirit. Your current girlfriend is only thinking of herself.

Short answer: No, do not continue to see this woman. It's not making you feel good about yourself. And there are ethical issues involved.

There are several lessons you could learn from your relationship with this woman, but for you right now the most important lesson is probably that she wants you. And if she does, other women will to. Ones who can give you what you want - a full relationship.

Although, it also seems to me that you might want to alter your approach to dating as well. You have been given some good advise on how to meet more women. Now, try to treat first dates as a chance to do something fun with someone new, not like a job interview. And try to gently steer the woman away from that.

Finally, if you haven't call your local mental health center which accepts payment on a sliding scale and get some grief counseling and assessed for depression.

Bets wishes!

He better be back at his shitty retail job today and he BETTER process my returns a smile and a "THANK YOU, PLEASE COME AGAIN".

HISC,

If you want companionship, why not start with making friends? Being lonely will always make a bad situation worse. Volunteer, take classes, find like minded sports people, but get out and get involved without worrying about commitments. Don't forget that if you're feeling down, so are lots of people who could use companionship and entertainment. Once you aren't in a "relationship or die" mode, take your time and have fun.

Don't be alone!

Peace.

HISC

Hang in there....and as others have said above, get out and learn something new, and... might I recommend learning to dance? I don't mean ballroom, which can be expensive to learn, but some sort of social, local community oriented dance, like argentine tango, salsa or blues/swing. There are usually more women than men at these things and if you get good, all the women will look for you to partner with. It is exercise, and if you are friendly and honest about being new and eager to learn, a great way to find yourself a new group of friends.
I started late, and had a hard time learning, but it changed my life. It provides close body contact, lots of hugs, without any other expectations. It is a struggle at first, but once you learn how you learn, the rewards are great. Get out of your present mental idea of where you are now and allow yourself to imagine a happier future self, and then make a plan that builds towards that future you. Good luck!

HISC, I wanted to second the "start with making friends" advice of #48.

Friends are an amazing resource. They can help you find jobs. They can help you move out of your parents' house. And they can make you feel a lot less lonely, even if it turns out none of them want to date you.

If it's hard for you to make friends -- and it can be hard when you're not outgoing, or when you're not in the habit or when you're feeling justifiably bitter about life -- one trick that can help is to do something where you're in the same place with the same people every week. Classes and meetings and volunteer sessions and things like that. You see the same faces every week, eventually you start to feel like you know them and it becomes easier to exchange a few words.

I know that when you're depressed, it can be hard to make friends because sometimes your bitterness at the universe can come across as bitterness at the person you're interacting with. So cultivate your sense of humor. Humor is how we face the unfaceable and deal with the undeal-with-able. And humor is how we can channel our bitterness, loneliness, and cynicism into a persona that doesn't alienate everyone we come into contact with.

Good luck.

I hate to agree with the troll, but I think you should stay away from married people (men or women) who have small children, because you risk being a participant in fucking up the children's home life. But even putting that aside, this woman isn't going to give you what you want - she enjoys toying with you and the feeling she gets when you desperately want her, especially when she pushes you away. Toying with you is turning her crank, and she probably also likes the danger of cheating on her man, but it doesn't turn your crank. If what you want is companionship, find a companion who can be YOUR companion.

Listen from one who knows: painful as it is, hard as it will be, remove yourself from this relationship. This is just one more way for you to avoid having what you really deserve, someone who is yours and wholly on your side. Make 2012 better---invest in your own happiness. Move on, move forward. There IS someone out there for you.

Hey HISC - you sound like a sweet, smart guy and you read Dan Savage - which already means you're smarter than most :o)
It sounds like you've had a truly tough time of it (not in a trite way). But, I can tell you that most women (contrary to some public opinion) don't care about how much money you earn, what kind of car you drive - etc. Most women want a nice, decent, smart guy who will tell them they're beautiful even when they're exhausted with bags under their eyes. And you sound like that guy.
Also - not to be too much on a tangent - a widower without children is probably more "datable" than a divorced guy with kids. For women it says that this guy is open to commitment and knows how to be in love.
People who aren't models or millionaires fall in love with decent, smart and funny people all the time.
Just be honest - most worthwhile women can look past living at home or being underemployed as long as you're honest and put yourself out there.

I'd like to get shit faced with this guy. It would improve both of our attitudes.

HISC, it helps to talk out loud to yourself in a letter because I can see you already know the answer with the lady. It's a no-win situation for both of you. If you were gay I could you seriously fucked unto collapse in less than 24 hours and you'd have a husband for life inside of five days. Here in the California desert at Palm Springs we have an exercise group called "Front Runners and Walkers" and it is allegedly where you meet up with 50 to 100 guys six days of the week to go walk a 2 or 4-mile route. We've had dozens of guys meet their lifemate at that group but just showing up and tagging along with people on a walk and, usually, having a cup of coffee with them afterward. The group, itself, has monthly potlucks and a movie to watch. Judging from the looks of the group, you'd never know that some of them were exercising on a regular basis and that's probably because the only thing they take seriously is the social opportunity they get by just plodding along at a snail's pace for about hour. They get to engage people slowly, like nature intended, and before they know it, they're packing the UHaul to move in with another walker. It's not a bar. It's not the internet. It's not an interview. It's just engaging other people in an activity that has a positive foundation to it.

I think you can find something like that. Someone has already suggested volunteering and that's a good thing, too.

I had the same temptation you're having with this lady. In my case, it was a really nice married guy who treated me with great respect and compassion. I saw myself falling for him and I had to take the responsibility upon myself to back off for the same reasons you need to: 1) You could get rejected and it will totally fuck up your head. 2) You don't ever want to look back on your life knowing you injected yourself into someone else's relationship and caused trouble. You'll hate yourself for doing that.

Go find your own partner; someone who is free to be yours, and give them the best you'd got, whatever that may be. That's all any of us have to offer.

My recycle bin is overflowing with gift wrap and cardboard from all the Xmas presents. What are your first world problems?

@54 - Yes.

It sounds like your momentum is coalescing. Your weight loss/life-calibration efforts are mounting tangible results. You are reaching out for advice regarding a major aspect of your personal well being. You have an employer who could hopefully vouch for Vessel HISC's sea worthiness. And you already have the higher edu experience/resource.

I agree with others who suggest to engage your interests.Theres no way I'd really want to get to know people in the dating fashion. If I had my pick I'd say platonic meeting circumstances and initial familiarity growth are the best means to get to know a guy. Seek out the free/cheap means to socialize based on one of your interests. I bet you'll meet other people in your same position (over educated, under employed, single and friendly). If you don't find love at first sight, maybe you'll make some friends. Who could in turn introduce you to their single lady friends ;)

Follow through with your current visions of change. It sounds like you've been put in a position to re-assert your life; with brains enough to reflect on how you want to go about doing that. There's still a second half to your life to be had. You, me, everyone I know are trying to get a fulfilling life that isn't based on materialism and consumption.

De-escalate or end the relationship with the married woman.

Really, really beautiful response by Dan.

It's hard to pull back from someone you're really attracted to who isn't as available as you'd like. It's even harder when you're lonely and depressed. I've been there. When you're caught up in the cycle of moments of exhilaration mixed in with insecurity about whether someone actually wants something real with you, ending things is the hardest thing there is.

But afterwards, when things clear up, you wonder how you waited so long. Learning to end relationships early is a difficult and painful skill, but a worthwhile one.

I second 46.

It is certainly ethically wrong to get involved with someone you know has a partner, or to cheat yourself. Even despite the fact that it is understandable if your marriage has lost all hope of a romantic partnership. (Since her children are so young, I call BS on that for this, though.) You are basically furthering deceit that will most certainly culminate in the heart ache of the husband and children.

Not only that, but it makes you feel bad. If you can't accept what she's willing to give, look somewhere else, taking away the knowledge that there ARE people out there who will find you attractive. Get involved in a hobby/education, get friends, save up money.

Move to Darfur. Then you'll really have something to complain about.

@61, What an utterly useless comment. I'm pretty sure people all over the world get involved in inadvisable affairs and feel heartbroken and lonely. Possibly less so when there's a civil war going on, but I'm sure sometimes even then. The letter writer's problem is damn near universal and involves pretty powerful emotions, which just might be why similar scenarios have appeared in literature for millennia. So please shut up with the first world problems crap.

@59

When you're caught up in the cycle of moments of exhilaration mixed in with insecurity about whether someone actually wants something real with you, ending things is the hardest thing there is.

Very well put, BlackRose. I think you've pretty much nailed what keeps the other man or woman in an illicit affair a lot of the time.

@64: "I've never met a slim, beautiful woman who had a hard time getting a date."

Usually the ones I know that have issues "finding a date" screen out guys like yourself by default. They're not "playing the field" but trying to find people they'd actually enjoy hanging out with.

I thought I would give it a few nights before I checked back to read comments. It's New Years Eve, a date night, and I'm home alone it seemed to be the right time to check in. I agree with many of the comments, even the people who have condemned me for seeing a married person. I chose not to get into the specifics of her situation for a reason. Mainly because it's her issue and not mine. When our friendship began I had no intention of it going in this direction. This was a first for me and I won’t do it again. I have become very attached to a person who is not available. That is on me and any pain that stems from that is entirely my doing, period.

What I've gotten was some intimacy, well beyond sexual intimacy, that has been missing in my life since my wife's passing. Sex followed the intimacy and I should have seen it coming. But when you are as painfully lonely as I've been utility begins to trump sense.

As for my wife’s cancer the trolls can take heart in how long and painfully she suffered. Getting breast cancer at 26 was bad enough. Losing breasts, going through 33 radiation treatments, 36 chemotherapy infusions, and 13 surgeries was beyond suffering.

I will take some of your advice. I am going to the tech college on Tuesday to see about a degree program. If nothing else it will occupy my time with something other than my horrible job and what I don’t have in my life. Volunteering isn’t a bad idea. Maybe I can help teach someone else to read. It’s been one of the greatest gifts anyone ever gave me and it didn’t come easily either. I had a 5th grade teacher who recognized how poorly I was doing and took every morning recess for year to get me up to speed. I will be forever grateful.

As for the job it's time to find a new one. Whatever I find couldn’t pay much less and I might not feel so awful doing it every day.

Lastly, my married friend I will keep a friend but she needs to occupy a different place in my life because if nothing else it's not working. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

@67: Very happy to hear back from you, HISC, and hope 2012 goes much better for you -- your response sounds like you'll make it happen.