So, he got a blowjob? From a friend who isn't in any high risk groups? And he doesn't have symptoms of syphillis, gonorrhea, or chlamydia?
Sorry, but the odds of this guy being infected are so tiny that only a hypochondriac could fault him for rounding it down to zero.
This guy really only has two things to consider -
1) Will telling the gf have a happy or unhappy result?
2) Is he worried about catching something from her?
@1 that is interesting. I would love to know what are the realistic chances of picking up something from unprotected oral. I know its possible, but how much so? Just saying "use a condom to be safe" doesn't seem to account for the relative safety (or maybe I am in la la land). Isn't this like to telling people the rhythm method doesn't work as well as abstinence?
#1, it isn't about his odds or how worried he is. He should assume that she has been sexually active because that was their agreement. That assumption means he is potentially at risk. He should respond accordingly. Treating it as a matter-of-fact precaution is a lot smarter, and involves a lot less drama, than this OMG-should-I-tell-her foolishness. Don't try to pussyfoot around it: both of you are for all intents and purposes assumed to be sleeping with multiple partners. Condoms are the only appropriate response in a nonexclusive relationship, for his protection as well as for hers.
@1 Herpes (cold sores being the polite term for oral herpes) is most DEFINITELY easily communicable, even when one cannot see them.
(and yes, most people carry the virus already, but that doesn't mean they'll be sanguine about developing sores on their lady/man parts where they previously had none)
Hey, does anyone know if Dan left out the "m" in random, or if the kids are calling random people "randos" these days? I remember someone scrawling "don't raw dog a random" on a wall at some college somewhere, but I don't know if that's now evolved to "randos" or if its just a typo. I'm over 30, so I need to ask these things...
Why the fuck can't people just break up? If you should reunite for a relationship—or just sex—again one day; great, but what is this "6-month break (with rules)" garbage?
@1, most days I adore you from afar. But you make a really big assumption that he was on the receiving end of said oral. And, I still adore you from afar.
I never really dated before getting married. I always thought I had missed out on something. But this whole we're taking a break, we're taking a break from our break, oh her feelings are going to be hurt that I did what we agreed we could do--this just seems like a whole lot of bullshit that I don't think I missed out on at all.
@1 It doesn't matter whether it can be rounded down to zero, it's not zero. Your judgment of someone wanting to take precautions for the sexual health of themselves and their partner has no place in this discussion.
OSOB, take Dan's advice. Be safe for both your sake and your gf's. Otherwise, your "break" could end up being a whole lot more permanent.
@11 presumably they can revert to whatever their rules were before they got tested the first time, and whatever their rules are with other people. If that means bareback oral, then she'll understand what risks he may have been taking with others, so she's making an informed choice.
Yesterday, on Fresh Air, the topic was a book: "Tinderbox - How The West Sparked The AIDS Epidemic And How The World Can Finally Overcome It."
One of the co-authors, Craig Timberg, spoke about how hard it is to get people to use condoms in every sexual encounter for their entire lives. People are more likely to use condoms with hookups and prostitutes, and less likely to use them with regular sex partners, husbands, wives, girlfriends, and boyfriends. Regarding condoms, he said: "Given that HIV is much more likely to spread with someone you have sex with many times as opposed to just once, the inability to get people to use condoms routinely over time with regular partners ended up being a limiting factor in its ability to become, like, the key factor in stopping the spread of HIV." (see around the 26 minute mark)
Just thought this was timely and supportive of Dan's answer. Letter writer dude - use a condom!
@12, I guess with more thought I kinda agree - they should treat each other as if they were random hook-ups, not long-term, monogamous, tested sex partners (which they aren't any more), and use protection accordingly. Or else, they should do like @8 suggested and just break up already and have occasional sex.
I've only heard one person mention this so far, and they didn't go into detail: HPV. More and more recent evidence more than suggests that HPV can be passed orally. The most awful side effects of this viral infection is CANCER (cervical cancer for women, throat cancer for men, among other possible kinds). Some kinds of HPV cause cervical warts, and some kinds don't do anything to the carrier, but may do something to subsequent partners, and give the diagnosed carrier the stigma of having an untreatable STI.
It is really, really important that people realize that oral is not as safe as we were all once taught in health class (if we had responsible sex ed programs), and that it can cause problems for us and any potential partners. HPV is the most widespread STI in the US, and the number of people who have this infection is growing at a exponential rate (eight years ago, when I first heard about it, it was estimated that 20% of college women had it. And that was then, before they even tested men for the disease). He is absolutely right to use a condom and to think about this encounter as he would any other type of unprotected sex, and anyone who performs unprotected oral on someone without being tested should do the same.
Why the dancing around on specifics? This really informs my whole answer. Is he the sort of sexist [insert word I don't use here but most feminist bloggers do] who would never dream of specifying because in his little mind "oral" automtically implies F-on-M only? Or is he being coy for one of a variety of reasons?
I've been on a kick lately of considering not the advice that will make people happiest, but the advice they deserve, which will most further the cause of justice in the world.
@ 23 (Mr. Ven): I, too, wondered why he is so vague or coy about who this friend is and what type of oral sex was had.
I don't know that it would have informed my take on the situation which would be right in line with Dan's, but elisions like this raise my hackles.
They sound young, in which case she should have been vaccinated against HPV. He should get vaccinated, too, if he has not already. If so, the odds of getting that from oral sex are quite low.
There are very few documented cases of HIV being passed via oral sex; you generally need bleeding gums to do so.
Herpes: If one of them has ever had cold sores on the lips (HSV Type 1), then it IS possible to transmit it to the genitals. It is also possible to pass HSV Type 2 (genital herpes) to the lips. But in both cases, the virus does not grow as well in the "wrong" location. Having gotten cold sores (Type 1) may actually protect you somewhat from getting the genital form (you make antibodies to Type 1, which seem to give some limited protection against Type 2).
SOOO...if she has been scrupulous about using condoms with her battalion of randos, and didn't notice any cold or genital sores (the first outbreak of HSV is usually the worst), then oral sex is a lower risk as far as viral infections are concerned. Does anybody really use dental dams for cunnilingus in these situations (unless your partner is HIV-positive)?
But bacteria may be more easy to contract. The most likely STI would occur if she had Chlamydia and didn't know it, which is the most likely bacterial infection in young women. His resulting sore throat can be cleared up by antibiotics, but is no fun. If he had Chlamydia from his previous encounter, he is more likely to know it already. She should be getting tested regularly for Chlamydia infections. Of course, you can pass oral Chlamydia via tongue-kissing, too, and we don't generally protect against that.
So.....nobody can guarantee that oral sex is completely safe, but if they've gotten the HPV vaccine, then the risk is probably reasonably low.
Dan's advice is good for vaginal sex. Condoms galore-you two ARE each other's rando for the break-from-the-break.
Biologist, thank you for that. Being a biologist myself (although not a microbiologist nor epidemiologist) I love the nerdy-accurate detail (really). May I impose upon you for a question? What do you know about not-young adults getting the HPV vaccine? Aren't there several varieties of HPV, and you're unlikely to have been exposed to all of them? So, wouldn't the vaccine be potentially beneficial for everyone?
Oh Yeah, you and Dan are right about the condoms.
@9: And I adore you, but from afar? I thought you were here in Seattle with me. (BTW, I don't think the risk changes much if he munched her rug.)
@4: Yes, possible, but still highly unlikely. Besides, don't you think LW would have mentioned any lip sores somewhere in all in his handwringing about putting gf at risk?
@5: I'm also assuming that his girlfriend isn't plotting to kill him on their next reunion, neither of them have leprosy, and we aren't all going to die in a nuclear holocaust next month, any of which would change my answer if true. If we open the door to any possibility not specifically ruled out in the letter, I don't see how we can give any advice at all.
@6: Wait, how does heterosexual oral sex cause 20% of gay men to be HIV+?
@10:It doesn't matter whether it can be rounded down to zero, it's not zero.
Really? Because abstinence is the only way to bring risk of STDs to zero. If you actually practiced what you preach, your life would suck. But you don't, so it doesn't, nor should it, or anyone else's.
@26 Thanks for nerdy regards, Sandiai; like your cellular avatar!
There are about 40 types of STI-HPVs, and about 60 others that cause warts on other places. If you've ever had a wart, you've had an HPV. The Gardasil vaccine protects against the 2 most common cancer-causing HPVs (of 4), plus 2 more HPVs that cause genital/anal warts. The assumption is that the more sex you've had, the more you've been exposed to one or another HPV, and basically partially vaccinated yourself against other forms. My uneducated guess is that the vaccine wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure you don't get one of those 2 major HPV's that cause cervical, penile, and throat cancer. But it's expensive, and there's no data yet; the problem is that people above a certain age have antibodies (i.e. been exposed) to SOME kind of HPV, so it's difficult to prove that the vaccine is creating new protective antibodies in older people. Merck is certainly testing that now - they surely want to sell more of it.
All good arguments (I'm evesdropping), but I had a hard time staying thoughtful and serious after "munched her rug."
BTW, in my head your voice sounds like Josh Thomson, the guy who plays Geoff Peterson on The Late Late show. He's pretty funny, so that's a compliment.
@28. Thanks! That was surprisingly understandable. I sort of feel like I'd pay for an expensive vaccine if it meant even a small reduction in the chance at getting a preventable cancer. But, I see why it's complicated.
The breakup with rules is a trap. If he simply says that they need to switch to condoms for the duration then she will assume he slept with someone else. There won't be any real discussion of what she may have been up to. This is about him pulling out the condoms. You are now the bad guy, friend (rules won't matter). You should have broken up.
Being in possession of HPV myself, I'm going to join in the Greek chorus of "yes, please use condoms". Use them if you fuck her, use them if she blows you, and defer to someone else who knows what they're talking about in terms of how to protect yourself (because I am old and the issue never came up when I was out fucking around as a youngster) if you go down on her (munch her rug ahahahaha). HPV is no joke, it's ridiculously communicable, and even if not ultimately cancerous, can lead to cervical lesions that require surgery to remove. Which I had, and which was no fun.
@323 If she's been having sex with others, she'll be relieved that he brought it up first.
I don't see the trap. If neither one is freaked out by the idea that the other has had some sex during their break, and if they both want to get back together when she's back from her semester abroad (or whatever), they may have a bright future together.
To tack onto EricaP at 34, if it *is* a trap, and she gets mad because you had sex with someone else while on your break, then you know that about her. You can use that knowledge to decide whether to actually break up, or to continue the non-exclusive relationship you have.
Condoms never killed anyone....unless they choked on one from sucking a little too hard on a condomed cock, or unless they were fataly allergic to latex...
1. If he received oral sex, condoms won't protect her from herpes, and men don't get tested for HPV. The second they become 'monogamous' again and get tested, she'll have it. Condom doesn't protect her.
2.If he gave oral sex, male condoms don't protect her junk from his mouth. Condoms don't protect her.
He should use condoms to protect himself and as good policy, but in this specific situation, they're not for her benefit. I mean, except against babies.
Sorry, but the odds of this guy being infected are so tiny that only a hypochondriac could fault him for rounding it down to zero.
This guy really only has two things to consider -
1) Will telling the gf have a happy or unhappy result?
2) Is he worried about catching something from her?
Anyone know how risky a bareback blow job is?
#1, it isn't about his odds or how worried he is. He should assume that she has been sexually active because that was their agreement. That assumption means he is potentially at risk. He should respond accordingly. Treating it as a matter-of-fact precaution is a lot smarter, and involves a lot less drama, than this OMG-should-I-tell-her foolishness. Don't try to pussyfoot around it: both of you are for all intents and purposes assumed to be sleeping with multiple partners. Condoms are the only appropriate response in a nonexclusive relationship, for his protection as well as for hers.
(and yes, most people carry the virus already, but that doesn't mean they'll be sanguine about developing sores on their lady/man parts where they previously had none)
I never really dated before getting married. I always thought I had missed out on something. But this whole we're taking a break, we're taking a break from our break, oh her feelings are going to be hurt that I did what we agreed we could do--this just seems like a whole lot of bullshit that I don't think I missed out on at all.
OSOB, take Dan's advice. Be safe for both your sake and your gf's. Otherwise, your "break" could end up being a whole lot more permanent.
One of the co-authors, Craig Timberg, spoke about how hard it is to get people to use condoms in every sexual encounter for their entire lives. People are more likely to use condoms with hookups and prostitutes, and less likely to use them with regular sex partners, husbands, wives, girlfriends, and boyfriends. Regarding condoms, he said: "Given that HIV is much more likely to spread with someone you have sex with many times as opposed to just once, the inability to get people to use condoms routinely over time with regular partners ended up being a limiting factor in its ability to become, like, the key factor in stopping the spread of HIV." (see around the 26 minute mark)
Just thought this was timely and supportive of Dan's answer. Letter writer dude - use a condom!
Break up. Reunite. At least I understand those concepts.
Children!!!
It is really, really important that people realize that oral is not as safe as we were all once taught in health class (if we had responsible sex ed programs), and that it can cause problems for us and any potential partners. HPV is the most widespread STI in the US, and the number of people who have this infection is growing at a exponential rate (eight years ago, when I first heard about it, it was estimated that 20% of college women had it. And that was then, before they even tested men for the disease). He is absolutely right to use a condom and to think about this encounter as he would any other type of unprotected sex, and anyone who performs unprotected oral on someone without being tested should do the same.
I've been on a kick lately of considering not the advice that will make people happiest, but the advice they deserve, which will most further the cause of justice in the world.
I don't know that it would have informed my take on the situation which would be right in line with Dan's, but elisions like this raise my hackles.
There are very few documented cases of HIV being passed via oral sex; you generally need bleeding gums to do so.
Herpes: If one of them has ever had cold sores on the lips (HSV Type 1), then it IS possible to transmit it to the genitals. It is also possible to pass HSV Type 2 (genital herpes) to the lips. But in both cases, the virus does not grow as well in the "wrong" location. Having gotten cold sores (Type 1) may actually protect you somewhat from getting the genital form (you make antibodies to Type 1, which seem to give some limited protection against Type 2).
SOOO...if she has been scrupulous about using condoms with her battalion of randos, and didn't notice any cold or genital sores (the first outbreak of HSV is usually the worst), then oral sex is a lower risk as far as viral infections are concerned. Does anybody really use dental dams for cunnilingus in these situations (unless your partner is HIV-positive)?
But bacteria may be more easy to contract. The most likely STI would occur if she had Chlamydia and didn't know it, which is the most likely bacterial infection in young women. His resulting sore throat can be cleared up by antibiotics, but is no fun. If he had Chlamydia from his previous encounter, he is more likely to know it already. She should be getting tested regularly for Chlamydia infections. Of course, you can pass oral Chlamydia via tongue-kissing, too, and we don't generally protect against that.
So.....nobody can guarantee that oral sex is completely safe, but if they've gotten the HPV vaccine, then the risk is probably reasonably low.
Dan's advice is good for vaginal sex. Condoms galore-you two ARE each other's rando for the break-from-the-break.
Oh Yeah, you and Dan are right about the condoms.
@4: Yes, possible, but still highly unlikely. Besides, don't you think LW would have mentioned any lip sores somewhere in all in his handwringing about putting gf at risk?
@5: I'm also assuming that his girlfriend isn't plotting to kill him on their next reunion, neither of them have leprosy, and we aren't all going to die in a nuclear holocaust next month, any of which would change my answer if true. If we open the door to any possibility not specifically ruled out in the letter, I don't see how we can give any advice at all.
@6: Wait, how does heterosexual oral sex cause 20% of gay men to be HIV+?
@10:It doesn't matter whether it can be rounded down to zero, it's not zero.
Really? Because abstinence is the only way to bring risk of STDs to zero. If you actually practiced what you preach, your life would suck. But you don't, so it doesn't, nor should it, or anyone else's.
There are about 40 types of STI-HPVs, and about 60 others that cause warts on other places. If you've ever had a wart, you've had an HPV. The Gardasil vaccine protects against the 2 most common cancer-causing HPVs (of 4), plus 2 more HPVs that cause genital/anal warts. The assumption is that the more sex you've had, the more you've been exposed to one or another HPV, and basically partially vaccinated yourself against other forms. My uneducated guess is that the vaccine wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure you don't get one of those 2 major HPV's that cause cervical, penile, and throat cancer. But it's expensive, and there's no data yet; the problem is that people above a certain age have antibodies (i.e. been exposed) to SOME kind of HPV, so it's difficult to prove that the vaccine is creating new protective antibodies in older people. Merck is certainly testing that now - they surely want to sell more of it.
BTW, in my head your voice sounds like Josh Thomson, the guy who plays Geoff Peterson on The Late Late show. He's pretty funny, so that's a compliment.
I don't see the trap. If neither one is freaked out by the idea that the other has had some sex during their break, and if they both want to get back together when she's back from her semester abroad (or whatever), they may have a bright future together.
Condoms never killed anyone....unless they choked on one from sucking a little too hard on a condomed cock, or unless they were fataly allergic to latex...
2.If he gave oral sex, male condoms don't protect her junk from his mouth. Condoms don't protect her.
He should use condoms to protect himself and as good policy, but in this specific situation, they're not for her benefit. I mean, except against babies.