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Instead of âIt Gets Better,â how about âGet Over It!â or even âGet Over Yourself!â or maybe âDidnât You Graduate From High School a Long Time Ago?â
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Dan Savage did not isolate those journalism students for being Christians and he did not taunt "every young Christian's heart". He did not bully them. Those students separated themselves from the group. They chose to express their disagreement by walking out. He called them on their walking out, walking out on a journalism confrence that focused on balancing on the edge of legitimate public interest and the interests of those who would rather differing views not be published. Their leaving was their expressing their unwillingness to tolerate his differing view on the use of Bible as justification to deny LGBT people equal rights now and to point out that the Bible was viewed as justification for slavery in the past. He called their choice to march out "pansy-assed," he did not call them out as individuals "pansy-assed". Considering that the confrence was designed to help students balance the legitimate public interest with those they disagree with, their leaving shows that they presently lack the journalistic skills and integrity to report without bias on subjects they disagree with.
By the way, your "every young Christian's heart" is being extreme. You deny that some Christians agree with Dan.
Judaism would like to disagree with you on this. There are some commandments that can no longer be carried out, as the Temple no longer exists, but Jews throughout history have adhered to the remainder as best as possible.
If you actually intended to point out the failed logic of relying on only PART of Leviticus while claiming the Bible must be taken litereally, then you should have moderated your language. "Pansy-assed" was unforgivable and homophobic. Period. Shame on you.
The use of words like "Bullshit", although accurate did not help you communicate your point. All it did was close minds that were barely open in the first place. Had you saved that easy shot to the end or chosen not to use it at all, your point would have been far more persuasive. By using it when you did, a lot of people decided you had nothing valuable to say and shut you out. Until that point, they were at least listening.
You really ought to be embarrassed about your performance. It was not persuasive. It was not your finest hour.
I see your apology and raise you a sincere thank you for saying what you did in the first place.
See, you apologized for saying this:
"It's funny, as someone who's on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back."
But thatâs exactly what so many of us, including me, really needed to hear. As a grown woman who was raised in a fundie household with a pastor for a step-dad, and one who was recently bullied online by family members, I needed to hear this. I was bullied for standing up to Limbaughâs tirade over Sandra Fluke, less than a month after having emergency surgery for a large cyst on my ovary and basically being exactly one of the examples that Fluke gave in her testimony.
So why am I telling you all this? Because I got the same condescending and often subtle âChristianâ bullying in relation to my reproductive health that gay kids get in regards to who they are. I was preached at for standing up for something about myself that I cannot change in a manner that was hostile and rife with the kind of judgment that some people feel the Bible justifies.
And I pushed back. And it was hell. My own mother took the side of the bully. Needless to say we donât talk much anymore because the reaction from both her, the bully, and my step-dad was utterly pansy-assed. They simply didnât want to hear it, much less deal with a strong, intelligent woman standing up for herself and discussing the complexities of the Bible and the failure of many modern-day evangelicals to respect women, gays, the poor, and whatever else their conservative pundits choose to shine their scalding light upon. And through that horrible time, I understood on a personal level, just how important pushing back is.
The stark reality is that any belief system that says, âDo what I say, or else,â is based on an ultimatum that is also at the heart of bullying. And the fact that you took such knowledgeable and forthright pains to call out the selective nature of how a text like the Bible is used, well that just shows that you arenât just attacking peopleâs beliefs. Instead it shows that youâve taken the time, much like myself and all my recovering-from-dogma friends, to really attempt to understand both the positive and the negative in these belief systems and how they can be better.
Those kids that got up and walked out were journalism students. To be a journalist you have to be able to consider utterly disparate points of view. When I was still a teen, I confronted my mother about the horrible things she used to say about gay people. Like when I lived in the predominantly gay area of Minneapolis, and she wouldnât let my brother visit because a âpedophile would get him.â Midway through the discussion, she got up and ran to her room and slammed the door. Sound familiar?
Itâs bullshit. Both in the actions that stem from it, and in the consistent picking and choosing of what page of that big âol book is going to be used on which occasion.
Try the âlove the sinner, hate the sinâ in many other situations. What if they loved me but hated the fact that I need to take birth control for the rest of my life and saw that as an abomination? Or since Iâm a writer down to my bones, what if they loved me but hated that I wrote, hated what I wrote, and saw my entire lifeâs work as an abomination?
It just doesnât work.
Why?
Because itâs not love.
And pushing back often is what makes that clear.
Especially for kids who grow up gay in homes like mine. Especially for girls who are not the limited and often submissive ideals in the Bible. Especially so the next generation of kids can see the ultimatum of âor else youâre going to hellâ for the veiled threat that it is.
It is awful to know that you are not loved. It is awful to have silence and shunning and the knowledge that they pray for your soul because it is not enough for them.
And it needs to be called out.
So thank you for doing it.
-Carrie
And may the self-proclaimed victimized Christian majority feel like their "sufferings" have been acknowledged. May they all return to acting Christ-like in both his care for the poor and rejected and with the quiet grace he bore during his suffering. His are big shoes to fill.
Take care.
It was big of you to apologize for calling them pansy assed. Nothing wrong with trying to keep the discussion above name calling. Given the name calling coming from the right, it's pretty tame really.
Cheers! Speak more truth to power!
"Then scripture directs slave-owners to treat their slave's humanely and with dignity."
But scripture does not say to release the slaves TODAY and to never own them from this day onward.
But it would be very easy for Jesus to have said that. Very easy.
But he did not.
Which one needs to "get over himself," again?
And the whole point is that Dan is helping kids who ARE still in high school (although I wouldn't expect a homophobe to grasp something so complicated). Oh, and your "magazine" sucks too. Don't quit your day job.
202: Do you know why Dan is quoting the Old Testament? Because that's what CHRISTIANS quote to justify anti-gay bigotry. Dan didn't yank the Old Testament into this debate. You guys did. You don't get to hide behind the OT when you want to bash gays, but then hide behind the New Testament and claim that the OT is suddenly unimportant when people point out the OT's flaws (or the parts of the OT that Christians disobey).
Your inconsistency still stands. If we can eat shellfish and wear polyester because Jesus paid the price for those sins, then why can't we accept homosexuality for the same reason? If we can't criticize Christians using the Old Testament because it was replaced by the New Testament, then why do Christians keep citing the Old Testament to justify anti-gay bigotry in the first place?
To switch back-and-forth and say that the OT is important when you want to use it to justify homophobia, but then suddenly unimportant again when a quote from it makes your religion look bad (or when you want to eat shrimp), is intellectually dishonest. Which is another word for lying. Which is a sin.
Also: telling slave owners to be kind to their slaves is still encouraging slavery. If God is all-powerful, there is no reason for him not to straight up tell them to stop enslaving people entirely. Anything short of that, therefore, shows approval for the existence of slavery, even if he does want them to cut down on the whippings a tad.
But I'm not here for a biblical debate. My point is, even if every single page of the bible told you to hate gays with all your heart, you'd still have no right to expect gays to tolerate such behavior in public schools. If Dan was a bit stern in communicating this, just be glad that he's not doing the "Christian" thing and tying anti-gay bullies to fence posts. A mild challenge to your worldview is not oppression, and the fact that you're even comparing the two plights speaks to how sheltered and weak you are.
Was this actually the start of the talk, immediately after Dan was introduced? And what came after the "Okay I'm done with the Bible" part?
A nation with many children can gain supremacy and mastery of the wordl. A pure race with few children already as one foot in the grave; in fifty or a hundred years it will be of no significance; in two hundred years it will be extinct. It is essential to realise that if we allow this infection to continue in Germany without being able to fight it, it will be the end of Germany, of the Germanic world. Unfortunately this is not the simple matter it was for our forefathers. For them, the few isolated cases were simply abnormalities; they drowned them in bogs. Those who found bodies in the mire did not know that in 90% of the cases they found themselves face to face with a homosexual who had been drowned with all his belongings. This was not punishment, more the simple elimination of this particular abnormality. It is vital we rid ourselves of them; like weed we must pull them up, throw them on the fire and burn them. This is not out of a spirit of vengeance, but of necessity; these creatures must be exterminated.
Of course you will go after Christianity because it is safe and you know you will not experience the same repercussions if you had gone after Muslims.
You did this in front of high school kids, you are an embarrassment to gays.
Good on you, sir.
@227. Though it'd be neat to see, Islam is not a powerful force in America. Besides if he did lambast the Koran, would you defend him? Thought so.
Good on you, sir.
- Romans 3:21-24; The Holy Bible
"To generalize is to be an idiot. To particularize is the alone distinction of merit. General knowledge are those knowledge that idiots possess."
@235: As for you, accusations of cowardice flung by the unregistered and anonymous are by definition absurd.
In Christ Jesus
Jerry McDonald
Keep preaching, Dan! The world needs to hear it now more than ever.
I'm sure it's a painful process to go from an unquestioned majority to being expected to actually respect other's pov but you know what? Welcome to the real world. Most of us have learned how to get along with all sorts of folks and you can too.
In Christ Jesus
Jerry McDonald
A pansy ass.
Lastly, AIDS is an acronym. It's simply spelt AIDS. Similarly STDs is plural not possessive. Please correct these typos.
What did the people who left do to you?
Sounds to me like you were lumping all Christians together in one boat.
Do you like being painted with such a broad brush?
If the bible condones slavery, please explain the Quakers and the Wesleyans.
Were you fighting back against them?
Could you please list the denominations of the CHILDREN who left the room?
Okay, I looked at that site and you STILL couldn't address Dan's comments.
Your opinion of Jesus seems to leave out the miracles that He performed. Why is that?
Why is it that Jesus who could raise the dead, heal the blind and walk on water could NOT clearly state that slavery was wrong and for all of his followers to release their slaves that day and to oppose slavery?
Your opinion of Jesus seems to be that he was just some guy who could not speak against the existing customs of the day.
They weren't being bullied. They are however being protected by adults who seem to have no interest in letting them be exposed to the world, this stunting their growth as people.
Having faith or following a particular set of beliefs does not warrant this broad based attack.
All of you are only feeding into the frenzy of divisive rhetoric.
Continue your agenda to divide and smear others, it will not work.
There is something else at hand and it saddens me to say so.
I hope all of you take a look a yourselves and ponder if you have the right to attack someone or some other group without reason.
Again, if you want to be equitable go after the Koran and other religions and cultures that kill people for merely being gay or that appear to act gay.
I think the real Pansy ass here is Dan Savage and everyone that is expressing a distorted view of presenting a positive message "how to prevent and stop bullying".
"I hope all of you take a look a yourselves and ponder if you have the right to attack someone or some other group without reason."
Three quick things:
1. He apologizes in the article above if anyone felt attacked.
2. He then restates that was not attacking individuals or Christians as a group, but instead he was challenging the logic behind using the Bible to condemn gays.
3. "Without reason?" Are you kidding me? Here, read this, maybe it will clarify to you what many mainstream and evangelical Christians are using their "Bible founded" version of religion to do:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new…
Thank you.
I used to be one of those brainwashed kids. Looking back it was horrible. It's so obvious that it was staged.
And the reality is that you cannot attack people to the extent that kids are offing themselves, and then play poor little holy victim. It's a common tactic and needs to be called out for what it is.
Thanks for pointing it out.
With your comparison of being gay to having a drug addiction, and then your verging on hate speech because gay people have been killed in that manner, you have now made yourself an ideal example of the bullying that you hide behind your big old book.
Good job. You just managed to somehow prove yourself not only wrong, but completely ignorant of what Christ taught. You're the problem. Thanks for making it so obvious.
I read it and you're grasping with your conclusions about slavery in the NT. And, you DID NOT answer the question Mr. Savage made! And, you ignore that the Bible has been quoted and used to justify slavery. You ignore that triangular slave trade between the west coast of Africa, the eastern seaboard of the US, and the capitals of Europe was blessed by all the churches.
All I got was you love the Bible and your convinced that your authority permits your non-answers to be sufficent. And while you made your non-answers you took the opportunity to make an attack on Mr. Savage as a person.
A mature and godly response would have acknowledged that those students were attending a confrence titled Journalism on the Edge. A confrence with a stated purpose of finding the balance on the edge of public interest and the interests of those who would rather differing views were not published. It would have acknowledged that they started walking out before anything "offensive" was said. It would honestly acknowledge that students who chose to remove themselves. Those students were not victims separated from their fellow attendees to be victimized. Those students were not suffering. they were intolerant of what Mr. Savage was saying, and they protested it by walking out.
So thank you for your non-answers and apologetics. I'm sorry you felt the need to attack Mr. Savage inorder to defend your love of your interpretation of the Bible. You're response is an excellent example as to why religious people support injustice.
I'm a gay man who would LOVE to vote for a new spokesmodel :P
I don't agree with everything you say all the time. I've vehemently disagreed with some of the advice you've given on your podcasts, and that's okay. But the one thing I've always respected about you is that you tell it like it is, and say what you believe, even if you think it will make people uncomfortable or angry.
Don't be a pansy-ass. Stop apologizing and stand your fucking ground.
Not surprisingly, some in the African-American community feel, the minority status is being twisted to include bedroom-games, and, thereby, severely undermined.
I think that the LGBT really need to know, that there is another side to what the PRIDE is all about:
Gay Rights / Special Rights - Inside The Homosexual Agenda
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7…
No, he conned them. It's totally different.
Not surprisingly - some in the African-American community feel the minority status is being twisted to include bedroom-games, and thereby, feel severely undermined.
I think that "LGBT people", really need to know that there is another side, to what their PRIDE'S all about:
Gay Rights / Special Rights - Inside The Homosexual Agenda
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7…
It must be a living hell to be suffering with such an inferiority complex. I pity an individual that is so unsettled with themselves that they feel they need to wallow in the gutter of ridicule and mockery. Perhaps you are really attracted to woman and your hostility towards others is really a manifestation of your cravings for a woman.
Your point regarding hypocracy was a joke. It requires a series of distorted assumptions and it is a glaring example of yet another person who has no idea what the Bible says. Your arguement regarding "the bible has it wrong on slavery", would cause a present day slave to blush at your failure to understand the texts you qoute.
I am grateful to enjoy the friendship of other gay people in my life and am heartened to know that some actually are secure enough in their own life that they do not need to become a petty fearful little boy foundering around trying to verbally process their insecurities.
You got it wrong on this one Danny.
Mr D
PS..... Would you be willing to bloviate in front of a Local group of Muslims, since you seen hip on "pushing back."
But I'm sure none of these new posters honestly care.
http://studentpressblogs.org/nspa/?p=363
"Mr. Dan Savage had been invited to share with students the power of social media in todayâs world as well as speak about the problem of bullying of gay youth, an issue all too familiar in many American schools. Mr. Savageâs comments on April 13 veered from the topic however. At a point in his speech he criticized the Bible, at times using vulgar language."
If this is correct then I think a Bible-bashing session was inappropriate. Even if it's not correct I think it was inappropriate. if we were discussing the Bible, I would be nodding in agreement and would likely also have some choice words about the Bible - particularly in how it's used to attack gays.
On one hand I think people shouldn't have been surprised - you are known as a bit of a potty mouth who doesn't mince words. But on the other hand I think it's a good idea to tailor your speech to a specific audience. An It Gets Better type of message might have been more appropriate in this case. The kind of rhetoric you chose to use might have been OK on Bill Maher. You should have known a vulgar lesson in the Bible and religious hypocrisy - while your usual schtick - probably wouldn't have gone over well at an event called the "National High School Journalist Conference".
I think there's a happy medium between taking things too far and not going far enough.
You're contradicting yourself: either gay people are so rare that the abuse they suffer doesn't matter, OR they're so ubiquitous that letting them get married will shake the foundations of society and change the very definition of marriage as we know it. One or the other; those two things can't both be true at the same time.
That's the thing about people who don't share your obsession with obedience: we won't believe things simply because you say so. You have to earn our belief by presenting evidence, or at least by showing some logical consistency.
Besides, this thread isn't even about gay marriage. It's about bullying gay kids. Are you for it or against it? If you support bullying gay kids, then say so outright and quit disguising your opinions behind marriage issues like a coward. If you're against it, then you should agree with Dan: it's pathetic and dishonest when people use the bible to justify anti-gay bullying and then call themselves victims when they're challenged.
As I said before: if anti-gay people think this is equivalent to the torment that gay kids face, they are pathetically thin-skinned.
1) first of all I don't believe that any one should be bullied; ridiculed or persecuted for who they are or what they believe. No one. Period. If someone claims to be a follower of Christ and then bullies someone than they are either not a true follower of Christ or is one that is terribly spiritually immature.
2) since when did the defination of TOLERANCE change? To be tolerant is the ability to get along with someone that you are not in agreement with. But now days it means if you are in disagreement than you are bigoted; homophobic and intolerant.
3) Why is it that Separation of Church and State means that a religous speaker cannot come into a public school and promote his faith (I agree with this believe it or not) but it doesn't preclude someone from coming in and demeaning someone's faith? That hypocrisy.Â
4) Mr. Dan Savage if you are going to quote from scripture it would do you well to understand the Book you are quoting. You completely misrepresented the Bible in nearly everything you said. Yes the Bible is a very difficult book to interpet because it was written many years ago in a completely diffrent culture. It takes very careful study to make sure it's not misinterpeted. But either you don't understand the Bible or you do and are setting up straw man arguments against it.
For one the Bible does not promote slavery. It condemns slave traders (1 Timothy) and God delivers His people from slavery in Egypt. We must also understand that the slavery mentioned in the NT is much different from the form of slavery that we think of due to our unfortunate history of race relations. In the NT if one was in debt they could work it off by becoming a slave to someone. Paul wrote to the masters of those slaves and appealed to them to treat their slaves well as in Christ both the slave and the master were equals. This was radical and unheard of in this culture.
When one quotes the laws in Leviticus one must understand that there are differentl type of laws. There are moral laws (which always stand including sexual ethics) and then there are purity laws and dietary laws which were relevant to the culture. It is okay to eat a ham sand which these days but it is still a bad idea to commit adultery.
5) When I watch this video I see Dan Savage guilty of the very same thing that he is supposed to be speaking against. Add the cheering (taunting) of the crowd and this creates a very hostile environment for students of faith. Â Is "pushing back" really the answer or is it just another step in the opposite extreme? How about teaching tolerance. ( there's that word again).
6) Many Christian's (myself included) believe that homosexual acts are a sin. That does not mean that this particular sin should be elevated above the rest. We should equally be against adultery and fornication without prejudice. It is hypocritical if we make some to be greater and others lesser based on our own feelings.Â
7) "Hate the sin, love the sinner". I'm sorry if one is offended by that but that is what we are taught to do. And this applies to all types of sinners. Not that we are better than anyone. We aren't. We just believe in grace. And this should bring humility not bullying. In my life I can say that I have had friends and co-workers who were gay. My daughter's god mother is a lesbian. My great grand mother may have been. A cousin of mine died of AIDS. I have cherished them all as people. Hate is the furthest thing from my mind.
8) I will go a little further ( and many of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ will disagree with me) but though I'm opposed to the very idea of gay marriage I'm not opposed to consenting adults making up their own minds on this and having the right to pursue this if they choose. Since we don't live in a theocracy.
This is America, and you are free to remain free of Christ. However, He does love you and desire a relationship with all of you. I'm sorry you feel such anger and bitterness toward the Bible and Christians. I will pray for you.
Maybe starting with respect for different opinions is a better angle. Do they deserve respect? Doesn't everyone--no matter how different or odd--deserve respect? Or does your model of inclusion exclude people who disagree?
Besides, respect for those who are different than you models good behavior. It's the heart of anti-bullying. Seeing the Other as human. Having empathy. Refusing to dismiss or demean. You have a really great point, but for me, it would be hard to accept your message when your own actions don't match up.
Do you get a pass because of all the anti-gay bullying, the past wrongs of Christians, the injustices? I didn't know that anyone gets a "I get to bully you" card because they have a "I was bullied by you" pass. Seems wrong.
Just something to think about. Bullying does need to stop.
Back to Savage's point which so few seem to get, all that cussing isreally distracting but put it aside. In it's 2,000 years Christianty has changed its relationship toward the bible numerous times. Heck, look at Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation. It is not beyond the realm of belief that Christianty can change its perspective regarding the treatment of gays.
As far as slavery is concerned, within the context of the debate within the US. Both sides used the bible as the basis of the moral strength. People sometimes use the words of the bible to do awful things, to pretend otherwise is to ignore a huge chunk of Western History. Get over it and work on making the present a better place.
Maybe starting with respect for different opinions is a better angle. Do they deserve respect? Doesn't everyone--no matter how different or odd--deserve respect? Or does your model of inclusion exclude people who disagree?
Besides, respect for those who are different than you models good behavior. It's the heart of anti-bullying. Seeing the Other as human. Having empathy. Refusing to dismiss or demean. You have a really great point, but for me, it would be hard to accept your message when your own actions don't match up.
Do you get a pass because of all the anti-gay bullying, the past wrongs of Christians, the injustices? I didn't know that anyone gets a "I get to bully you" card because they have a "I was bullied by you" pass. Seems wrong.
Just something to think about. Bullying does need to stop.
(sorry for double-post, it posted this as unregistered the first time)
So, according to all of you to have faith in the Catholic or Christian faith and to be gay is not possible.
@264, girl you need some help if you feel that tortured. Go take a jujitsu class and get a make over.
Why don't we lay out on the line.
The truth is when you are a loser people can smell it on you. It starts with self-confidence and building on that. When you are strong and demand respect people will not threaten you. Power is derived from inside and once harnessed it is unstoppable.
You honestly think that you are going to stop kids from beating up or bullying other kids- can you say "Keep Dreaming".
Kids needs to learn to defend themselves instead of waiting to be rescued.
All of you are promoting WEAKNESS and making our gay youth WEAKER.
Thanks for making gays look like a religious hating group that only cares about shoving our lifestyle down other's throat.
I would love to see your ugly asses at XL.
It did not make sense why you would spout so much hate until I took look at your ugly ass.
They took a beautiful message from an enlightened, ahead of his time prophet and
did what we humans usually do.
Fucked it up and got it wrong.
Love the Christ, hate the Christians!
I agree with most of your sentiments. Everyone deserves respect and noone should endure ridicule and disrespect. With regards to the link between gay bullying and "the bible", Dan made several mistakes and several assumptions.
Let me point out an ovbious one. When a popular 18 year old jock shoves a gay 17 year old into the lockers and calls him a "flamer", is he bullying because of his interpretation of Romans 1 or is he bullying because the gay kid is "different"
The stupid Jock probably cannot find even find the book of Romans.
Dan made a fallacious arguement and he probably knows it.
I would defend any kid getting bullying for any reason. I also will defend against shameless assertions that Dan so willingly blathered. Assertions that had NOTHING to do with bullying gay kids.
"Yes the Bible is a very difficult book to interpet because it was written many years ago in a completely diffrent culture."
Why? Why wasn't the omniscient, omnipotent God able to get His message across in terms that could be understood today?
"For one the Bible does not promote slavery."
Wait for it ........
"We must also understand that the slavery mentioned in the NT is much different from the form of slavery that we think of due to our unfortunate history of race relations."
So the Bible does not promote "slavery" ...
But the Bible's usage of "slavery" was not that which was practiced in the USofA ...
Now you reference 1 Timothy. But you aren't very specific, are you?
1 Timothy
1. Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2. Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
I'm guessing that you really don't know where the Bible condemns slavery because you couldn't reference it.
"Paul wrote to the masters of those slaves and appealed to them to treat their slaves well as in Christ both the slave and the master were equals."
Why did Paul skip the part about freeing the slaves and not keeping slaves any more?
"When I watch this video I see Dan Savage guilty of the very same thing that he is supposed to be speaking against."
Then you know nothing of the bullying that happens, do you?
But until Christians stand up and ask their flock to stop treating gays as evil. Gay kids will be bullied and many "responsible" adults will turn a blund eye. Just look at the many comments in this thread.
As I mentioned, there are many ways to read the bible, people should acknowledge that fact instead of getting all huffy when this very truth is shown.
I'm very disillusioned with you.
And disappointed.
You've undermined so much progress and good work.
It's too bad, really. More can be done with civility. Now your credibility is very damaged.
Good luck.
muslim countries will KILL you for being gay and yet you say nothing about them.
Muslim countries allow women to be raped and then kill the woman for being unpure.
Yet we hear nothing from you on that. Are you too pansy assed to attack islam?
My name is Diana A. I'm one of John Shore's fans. I just wanted to tell you that this Christian (me) wasn't particularly offended by anything you said in that speech. I actually thought you were pretty mild. I also think the kids who left were showboating.
Just thought I'd share my thoughts!
I'm wondering what your basis is for saying there are "untrue words or ideas" in the Bible? As a matter of fact there are no untrue words or ideas in the Bible. The Bible is truth, 100%, like it or not. Paul counseled Onesimus to return becuase of the laws of the day and not because God was pro slavery. The laws of the day have to be observed even more so if you're a Christian. I would ask you to consider something very truthfully and honestly, would you have said the same about the Koran in an all Muslim assembly?
Respectfully,
Tom