katallred @22 Would you be willing to go on the record with your account that Jason told you this story contemporaneously?
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So... the question for you (and all the "I don't tip baristas" sloggers who are sure to chime in) is... What is the difference between a bartender's service and a barista's?
Do you think waiters work harder than kitchen staff? Have you ever been anywhere near a commercial kitchen? Did you know that 90% waiters share their tips with the kitchen staff? Did you stick a qtip in your brain?
slog gets pissy about tipping baristas because most readers are (or greatest aspiration is to be) baristas.....
you girls really got nothing.
Always thought baristas and bartenders got overtipped for what they actually do, especially if the bartender is just popping open beers for most of the time. But of course, I realize you tip the bartender for very different reasons than the barista.
If I ordered some complex drink, I'd probably tip.
But when the crew of baristas I see most often are working, and I happen to have cash, I've been known to throw $5 or $10 in the tip jar to make up for it.
I don't. What are these reasons?
Goldy, if this Seattle's Best is on premises at a Borders they may have a similar arrangement; I'm just saying the lack of a tip (which I agree is potentially key cornerstone to a story which is really about Mitt's colorblindness to social norms about "sharing" beverages) may be a bit disingenuous - I don't know.
I think there may be a liberal/conservative schism on the moral concepts behind tipping. Both tip, no doubt about that, but for some it is (at least partly) out of recognition of pay scale of service workers, financial equity, workplace dignity and for others it is out of recognition of past and potential future good service, protection of self interest and noblesse oblige.
Who would John Galt tip? Fucking nobody!
Of course, if you just open a tab at the bar and tip at the end of your night, it is essentially the same.
Honestly, I just think restaurants should be forced to pay at least minimum wage like other industries. It amazes me that they are allowed to violate that rule because tips are expected.
Pay them an actual wage and make it truly a gratuity again. I would still tip for good service, just not anymore for terrible service. I hate being "forced" to tip for terrible service.
Yes you can get sick from consuming a tainted drink. Mono is a damn good example. Like chicken pocks, it is more severe the older you get. Unlike the chicken pocks you can transmit it long after the symptoms resolve. Unless you are willing to share a toothbrush, you shouldn't be welling to share a drink.
People always point to Europe and go "See! People don't tip over THERE! It's a bullshit social obligation." without realizing that waiters in Europe make quite a bit more than minimum wage.
Frankly, this thread is all sorts of entitlement come to life. "Why should I tip for something I could do myself (but didn't do?!!"
Take the herp-derping outrage and shove it up your collective asses.
katallred @22 Would you be willing to go on the record with your account that Jason told you this story contemporaneously?
Your comment about "throngs" prompts me to ask if you ever go to bars when they aren't busy, and if you tip less then.
@ 25, if you frequent Starbucks and drink their preground, computerized-machine-brewed crap, I can almost see not tipping them. If you go to a place that roasts their own, uses truly premium beans, and brews with craft and care... well, the fact that you still add cream and sugar tells me that you don't go to such a place. So never mind.
@ 28, this story is hearsay at best. You can't take it at face value. The debate about tipping baristas is a hell of a lot more interesting. We have tons of better, verifiable stories about how out of touch Romney is.
If I don't want to pay for a coffee from a barista, I'll make it at home. If I'm getting a drink I can't make at home - espresso (no machine), or a fancy drink - well, then I should tip since I'm appreciating their skill that I don't have (assuming they got it right).
You nailed Romney's persona perfectly!
Here in Florida the minimum wage is a paltry $7.67 an hour.
I know someone who is a waitress at a restaurant. her minimum wage is something like $3.50 an hour.
Is it really that much more interesting? How many times can Slog have this same debate before it goes to pitbull/bicycle/gun ownership territory? Speaking of which, I'm really surprised Fnarf hasn't chimed in yet to call people who don't tip baristas entitled pieces of human garbage on par with holocaust deniers..
If you genuinely believe people shouldn't be paid fairly, then yeah, don't tip. I'm sure it will make you quite popular.
That's the same human who will help you get a cab if you have too much to drink, the same one who will offer to hold on to your car keys if you need it, the same one who will act as your intermediary if you want to buy a drink for someone else.
That bartender isn't getting paid very much while you're spending your disposable income on temporary intoxication. It's a magnanimous gesture, even if it's just a dollar or two.
And really, tossing your spare change in a barista's tip jar is not that hard. It adds up, and again, if you can afford three or four dollars for coffee, you can help your barista afford things like food.
It's far more useful than someone's unfinished food or drink. :)
Romney is such a freak. Maybe it's just extreme Asperger's? He really does seem like he is completely unfamiliar with social norms.
And, @1 - fuck you.
Hilarious really. Oh and ya, ya..I should tip my barista more often.
@62 - If Romney were anywhere on the Autism Spectrum or developmentally delayed, his family would've given up on him in childhood and he'd be working at Deseret Industries now. Mormons don't like neurologically atypical humans.
Also regarding so many in this thread I would like to congratulate you swine for learning how to type so well.
You are reading way to far into that minor statement dude, I tip at standard, socially accepted levels.
To everyone: We all effing know the point of the story is that it is weird Romney expected the barista to drink his leftovers. It is so obvious that there is nothing to be talked about there, so we are discussing tipping etiquitte, which as you should know, is part of the SLOG trollbait trifecta: Bikes, Pit Bulls, and Tipping.
I think some of us just want to use this as an opportunity to get our digs in before this robot steals the election and sends all us partypoopers off to the forced labor factories to craft his serviceable parts. Of course, I shouldn't be speaking for everyone here, but it's my preferred narrative.
Also, my comment should be read as neutral, not attacking, both here and @ 37. "In cyberspace, no one can hear your tone of voice..."
I wasn't criticizing, I was debating the notion that there are truly different reasons for tipping a bartender than tipping a barista.
What's really odd to me is that all Mormons I've ever met in real life were obsessively polite and courteous.
And Mitt being rich doesn't necessarily explain it either. It's pretty tough to become a quarter billionaire without knowing how to behave around other people. You might not care to act like a decent human being, but you should be capable of doing it when the occasion demands it. Right now, while he's running for president, the occasion demands it, but Mitt just can't manage it.
Mormons are prescribed from ingesting "hot drinks" like coffee and tea. Wouldn't hot chocolate be on the list of no-go drinks for Mr. & Mrs Romney (was about to use a nickname but thought better of it)?
The prohibition, as I understand it, is avoiding caffeinated drinks. Chocolate does contain caffeine, but lower down on that page, it claims that the LDS is a-okay with chocolate.
Irrational religious rules are irrational. But, in terms of how Mormons currently interpret the rules set down almost 200 years ago, it seems that coffee is bad, but hot chocolate is fine.
Mormons also have a weird thing about Diet Coke, specifically that many of them drink copious amounts of it even though it's caffeinated.
I can't say I blame them. Avoiding alcohol is hard enough, but they can't even have relatively harmless stimulants?
Despite this, I usually tip baristas anyway, once service is complete.
While food service is poorly paid work, so is working in a convenience store or any number of other retail non-food establishments and I never think about tipping then. The rules are somewhat arbitrary and inconsistent.
Tipping would seem to relate to the degree of intimacy and anytime anyone makes something for me to eat or drink it is always quite intimate, apart even from the difficulty involved or the degree of customization I request. After all, I am asking someone for something that I will be putting inside of me, that I will come into the closest possible contact with for purely pleasurable purposes. It might seem like a reach, but it's on the same continuum with asking for sex. And this intimacy is that much clearer when I watch them prepare it for me. But tipping is also a performance incentive for doing it better and doing it the way I prefer it done.
I also tip because I use the establishments space to sit and read and work. It's payment for making a pleasant, clean place available without pressure or expectation beyond the initial order. Bathrooms aren't fun to maintain, so the tip is for taking care of that too.
The desire to tip or not is highly subjective. That the rules for tipping are as arbitrary and inconsistent as they are reflects this, I think. I suppose we will always be argue whether it's an obligation or optional to tip, and why.
Eating is innately pleasurable and tipping for the food I enjoy is, I suppose, a way to say I'm happy and I want you to be happy that I'm happy. It makes up for my shyness and the impression that I might otherwise leave that I'm not satisfied. Subjective indeed.
So, I'm really big on tipping because I've done all those jobs. I usually tip about 20%. 15% if I'm broke or the service is bad. For drinks, I do $1 per poured drink or bottle (beer, wine, shots) and $2 - $3 for each mixed drink. I don't drink often, but when I do, I always tip in cash.
As for coffee, depends on the place. If it's a drip coffee from the cafeteria on campus, then no. It's overpriced swill from a machine, and people only drink it because it's there. Also, those employees get benefits, even part timers. If it's a nice cafe and it's all handcrafted with care, as someone above mentioned, they get a nice tip on par with my bar tipping policies. Those people probably do not get benefits, unlike the ladies at my college.
Are you so sucked up your own ass that you don't notice the amount of work and expertise it takes to properly make a drink. Get a cappuccino from a dispensing machine if you can't tell the difference. The bartender should be tipped just for putting up with a bunch of you drunks. Sheesh, some people are so isolated from the working class that they should be served in hot sauce. There's nothing wrong with left over food if no one has eaten part of it. I have had normal American people get insulted with me because I wouldn't finish their plate, because it was 'so good'. If it's that good, why don't they just rub it all over their faces, like I would like to do for them.
"Minimum wage" in France is mandatory. It means the boss will pay a heavy fine if he dares to pay anything less. It's called "minimum" because you can't pay your employees any less than $11.50 an hour, comprising various mandatory contributions : healthcare, pension plan, etc. What the employee gets in his pocket, out of the employer's money spent for him/her, is $9 an hour.
As a results, tips are not expected in France, in the serving food industry.
@86 "To all the people who want to know why you tip the barrister and bartender. Are you so sucked up your own ass that you don't notice the amount of work and expertise it takes to properly make a drink."
I do notice. That's why the price I pay for a drink in a bar is a lot more than what it would cost me at home. Why should I leave a tip on top of that ? Oh, yeah, because the American employer of the bartenders doesn't want to give them any of the money I've already paid for their work. It's their boss who is "so sucked up down his own ass" that he doesn't want to pay them on my already given money.
So sorry your bosses' greed do enslave you - I feel for you. All bosses pay the same because they have agreed to not pay you enough. One solution is to agree not to work for them until they pay you enough for you to live on your wages, without having to rely on tips. Another one is to vote and elect people who can make things change. But only a very strong federal State, with lots of income, could perhaps defend you against such private greed. Strangle down the federal government - and the law of the greediests will continue to prevail.
If you can afford the meal, tip the server. If you can afford the drink, tip the bartender. If you can afford the coffee, for the love of Christ JUST PUT YOUR FUCKING CHANGE IN THE FUCKING JAR and be done with it.
"I only tip at coffee shops if I order an actual constructed drink"
Yes, because coffee gets brought in every morning on a tanker truck and pumped in like it's a gas station.
"After all, I am the one whom dresses it up with cream and sugar."
So much more efficient to throw your coffee back in their face and shout "Not enough cream! MAKE IT AGAIN!"
"The thing that drives me nuts is when baristas expect a 30% tip or more."
Never in the history of coffee shops has any barista ever given you attitude because you didn't tip 30%, or at all. Stop making shit up just because you're a cheapskate.
"I don't tip my bartenders that much either."
You sound like a swell guy. At least you're used to the taste of server's saliva in your drinks.
"I tip better then a well poored draft beer."
Let me get this straight - you don't tip anything for brewed coffee, even though they sorted, weighed, ground and brew batches of the stuff every half hour, but you tip on a draft beer because it's 'well poored' - let me tell you something, it takes a hell of a lot longer to brew decent batches of coffee than it takes to roll a keg into place and connect the tap. Trust me, I know. You're not even consistent with your doucebaggery.
And for the love of Christ, it's spelled 'pox,' you moron.
I have had many a delicious (and expensive) beer effectively spoiled because the moron behind the bar does not know the difference between Guinness and Miller Lite.
I wouldn't dream of living in WonderAmurikaLand where employees are legal slaves.
And now, johnjjeeves, how about going to the hospital to get your case of rabies taken care of ? Oh, I forgot, you can't, in WonderAmurikaLand it's too expensive for poors to stay healthy !
Capitalism : if you don't like it, fight it - but don't whine and then do nothing about it.
Imagine: a rude, condescending French person. Never would have thought that could happen.
Frontal lobe brain damage can cause this sort of miscue of social interaction.
There is also a high correlation between being a narcissistic high-maintenance douche bag and the percentage of body fluids (not yours) in your food or beverage. And this is a long established tradition in the service industry.