As long as there are enough cells for people who kill a person for watering plants in a traffic circle or playing a tuba, the world will be a much more pleasant place.

I support the general need, but there are two things that are really nagging at me:
1. The price tag seems exorbitant. $200M. Does the building include a stadium?
2. The sale of public lands. We should be acquiring more public lands, not selling them off.

Beyond that, Joe McDermott's slanderous use of the word "Extremists" to describe Ariel Wetzel's thoughtful opposition piece really turned me off. Really Joe, we're resorting to name calling now???

I stopped by the "festival" yesterday and was sorely disappointed. No one there could give me an alternative save for "vote no" or "don't waste money on new jails". There was a cardboard cop car cut-out on fire and people were throwing fake molotov cocktails at it in the hopes of knocking out the windows.

I don't know if I'd call them extremists. I just don't think they are organized enough to offer a reasonable alternative.

I went home and promptly filled out a yes vote on my ballot. I had been willing to wait to hear their opinions before deciding either way.

Also, the City of Seattle and King County to a slightly lesser extent have a track record of voting to fund important projects. If one of the activists wants to run a levy putting more money to alternatives or schools or after school programs we could vote yes on that too.

I voted no, and I generally support bond measures. The price is ridiculous. The cost of public projects no longer bears any relation to the value received. All that money for a single facility? Look at the roads in Seattle and King county, think of all the sewers and other utility infrastructure that's gonna need replacing/updating, etc. etc. It cannot be done at the levels of cost currently being extracted by the contractors/agencies doing this work. We'll go the way of the Mayans and other civilizations that collapsed when they were no longer able to maintain themselves. We need to get control of the process quick.

An interesting project to consider is the South Park bridge - originally tagged to cost something like 130 million (CRAZY) and when this failed, mirabile visu, suddenly it could be done for 90 million or so. So, just who would have wound up with that extra 40 million? Or the very earliest tunnel proposal - if I recall, about 11 billion (for 2 miles of road), or over $2,000 for every Washingtonian at the time or $20,000 for every Seattleite!

It just beggars sense that these kinds of numbers are acceptable, we CANNOT afford what constitutes public infrastructure at those price points, we cannot sustain the public realm if we can't get some semblance of control over the costs.

@4 I wouldn't call it very "thoughtful" opposition. There were hardly any salient points in it. The comment thread to her piece had better arugments than her original post.

"The sale of public lands. We should be acquiring more public lands, not selling them off"

Huh? I can see acquiring wetlands, or farm land, or forest land, to keep them wet, farming, or forests, but what's the downside of selling off unneeded land in central Seattle, which could contribute to the tax rolls?

12th avenue is a textbook example of a development success story. Twenty years ago, it was a grim arterial, full of warehouses and 9-5 businesses. Today, it's that cringe-worthy cliche of vibrant and walkable. Why not spread that success down into the area that is currently occupied by the Juvi facility?

@5 - It's almost like you have no idea how much it costs to build things.

*rabblerabble* Back in my day, you could see a double feature for a nickle, and penny candy cost a ha'penny! *rabble*

But that miraculous 40 million for the South Park bridge is pretty convincing. Let's see...the State and County raised $95M...and then secured a $34M Federal grant. So...to meet that (CRAZY!) $130M budget for the bridge, they raised...$129M.

And with interest payments, the actual cost of the bridge will be $165M.

I've got an idea--how about you know what you're talking about before you speak next time.

@7 - The aptly named I Got Nuthin' is clearly a member of what a previous commentor called the Vacant Lot Preservation Society.

The Progressive Voters Guide recommended a yes vote as well: http://progressivevotersguide.com/2012/w…

For me its pretty much a no-brainer, as the arguments for the levy so rightly put it, in yesterdays responses to Ms Wetzel.

And, an aside: Holy Smokes a PH.d candidate and she cant even be bothered to do basic research? Fire her profs!

Voting yes for this levy is the smart and civic minded thing to do.

I took Joe's advice and googled "detention". I got results back pointing me towards an ACLU report on Bagram AFB, a UN Human Rights Commission report on detainees, and a PBS Frontline report on Obama's ramping up of ICE and associated abuses.

This is Joe's "modern government".

I believe that Joe was intending for you to land on a page such as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_deten…

There are distinctions between a jail and a youth detention center, mostly in terms of the services provided to those detained.

But I suppose that since you already know everything you could possibly need to know, you've never had to learn how to use google properly.

What I'm not clear on exactly is why the fact that the place is a mess means that it has to be replaced. Why not fix the existing facility? Seems likely this could be done for a lot less than 200 million dollars.

@14 - There's a few things. The pipes are badly rusted in a number of places, and I suspect that a full refit of the pipes would be very costly just as its own project. The issues with airflow are also not as simple as just replacing the HVAC system--a number of internal rooms simply have no access to outside venting.

A large part of the problem is not merely the building's age, but the fact that it was built piecemeal--it's actually 3-4 different structures constructed at different times. The original building, now called the Alder Wing; the Alder Tower which is four stories built on top of half the original construction, and the detention center and school, which was built underneath and to the side of the other half of the Wing.

The existing building uses space very poorly, makes security a nightmare, and has too much space in the detention center and not enough for support offices and courtrooms.

The new construction would have a smaller footprint on the land, which allows the county to save money by selling unused property. It would have additional space for social programs such as community diversion and Team Child to have offices in the building, instead of directing clients to other parts of the city. It would have more courtrooms, and seperate lobby spaces, to give family court and the criminal court their own areas.

Obviously, the existing shittiness of the building is a great rallying cry to get yes votes, but there's a lot more going on in this project than merely reducing maintenance costs and solving the "brown water" problem.

Smaller footprint or not, why does it have to be in the CD? Why can't it be in Kent near the Regional Justice Center, which is within walking distance of the Kent Station?

Land costs less down there, and there's probably as many offenders down south as there are in Seattle proper? Why does the CD and the valley get all the social services?

Actually, there are tons of social services on the south end. And the MRJC in Kent handles all the family court matters down there.

And in terms of accessability, the entire KC Metro system is laid out to funnel people into downtown Seattle. And with the new trolly they appear to be putting in around the corner, it'll only get easier to get here.

Honestly, if there's a motivation beyond "the YSC is already here and we already own the land," I haven't heard it, and those decisions are way above my pay grade. I don't see the location as a particular problem, but then I suppose I wouldn't since I live right down the street.

Holy crap that's INSANE every single home in Seattle being taxed an extra $25 average per home for NINE YEARS?!?!?! You're telling me there's no other way to take care of what is about 70ish children we have taken away their freedoms? I'm no expert but I know we can be more respectful to them for cheaper and consider not criminalizing people we don't let vote. >.< You have my vote when the VAST majority of that money goes towards education. This is just a bailout for the prison industrial complex.

@18 - your comment is utterly devoid of reality.

Evilvolvus, 12th ave is not downtown. It's the Central District. Try walking from the courthouse to the Juvie Center. It's a bit of a hike.

I don't have a "problem" with the location per se, but it seems to me that while there may be "tons" of social services in the south end, there's way too many social services in Pioneer Square, Belltown, the Central District and the Rainier Valley. The land in those neighborhoods is too valuable for these social services, and too many people who need the services are having to schlep up to Seattle from places like Kent, Burien, Auburn and Federal Way to get them. It doesn't make financial sense, and it doesn't make sense for a good percentage - perhaps a majority - of the users of those services.

Whats extremist is the number of prisons in this country. More than China with more than five times as many people as us, more than any country in the world. This is the sign of a sick society with sick priorities. It does not take an extremist to vote against a prison for children. There is no political left in this country at all any more, and to be just the kind of moderate lefty who opposes more prison construction appears to be akin to being a Communist back in the fifties. I will not vote for this thing today tomorrow or ever. Juvie is a meat grinder that destroys young peoples lives. Its where we punish fifteen year old girls forced into prostitution, its where we train black and brown youth for prison. These are statistically true not the ravings of an extremist. Our society is extemely sick and the Democrats have taken an extreme turn to the right. These "programs" and parasitic bureaucracy hanging over incarcerated kids are extremely wasteful. Its sort of the little brother of our endless foreign wars, a great way to siphon off masive amounts public money to profiteers and torture people at the same time. This is money being spent for community downlift, when we so badly need uplift. It breaks my heart.