Does no one bother proofreading anymore?

Methinks Saletan doth protest too much.

As with abortion Lord Saletan believes that if HE finds something to be icky EVERYONE should find it to be icky as well and probably the government should consider doing something about whatever makes him feel icky. He thinks the world should run on his sensibilities.

I think we should redefine "Saletan" to mean "sexual concern troll."

@4 - I second that!

Generally speaking pieces like this are designed to drive up hits from people who are SO shocked at the dreadful pictures, are there any more? And not change anybody's mind either way, since that's not very likely to happen no matter who's doing the persuading.

How is Salatan on gay marriage?

Because the example involving a lesbian couple is statistically unlikely: it should be his straight co-worker, possibly married, he fears. So I will posit that "if gay marriage is okay, polygamy will be next!" isn't working. (Both because it would complicate the property rights at stake, and more prosaically because almost no one knows any out polygamists who want to marry.) Thus we need a new fear. Presenting: "If gay people are allowed to be visibly gay by marrying people *what if all the BDSMers show up at the office party with needles in their penises*!!!!!!?"

@10: That's a "do". As a straight dude, I could get it on with another guy. I could, I guess, even though I don't want to. But there's no way in hellfire to make me go from straight to gay. It's not a difficult concept.
Oh, and you misspelled "Gomorrah" in your previous post. Again.

Uh, wouldn't it be just as likely for one of his coworkers to duck out of a 4:30 meeting with the salutation "gotta get home and fertilize the wife, it's one of her 'days' and we're trying" as his kinky coworkers to show up with their sub on a leash? Both are things that people do in private and with the knowledge of only those who consent to know about it, right? And both are kind of icky if you haven't consented to know about them. Outside of the office pariah, does anyone have a coworker who just overshares like that? Maybe I've always worked in reasonable places where people share only what is necessary unless you happen to end up as more-than-coworker friends...

charlie pierce at his best: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Wi…

Ok, this piece wasn't great, but Saletan is generally worth reading. He chooses interesting subjects, has interesting and intelligent ideas, is not afraid to state controversial opinions and, perhaps most importantly, is afraid of neither changing his mind publicly or sticking with an unpopular position after reconsidering.

Lord Saletan once more writes as he swoons and clutches his pearls "the underclass is rutting like mad! Oh why they can not like thier betters and only have sex when it is best for England!".

"I think it's icky, someone could get hurt, and decent people just don't do that! Therefore, no one should mention it or admit that it's part of their life, and also you are abusive mentally deranged freaks."

Pretty sure that the same logic was used by every puritanical theocrat ever regarding man-woman-penis-vagina sex.

How's about we all try not to overshare our sex practices and acknowledge that portraying consensual sexual behavior between adults as inherently diseased because you don't like to do what they do is impolite, m'kay?

Remember, Mr. Saletan, the gut deep revulsion you feel for BDSM is similar to how some people feel about indoctrinating children into a religion or eating pineapple on pizza.

To clarify, the theocrat usually implies people wanting to do the sexy are are hell-bound or demon-ridden rather than abusive.

Is he like the Camille Paglia of Slate?

What you like or dislike should not be the standard by which others live. That is, if you don't want others doing the same to you.

@12 - Oh, boy. Do I have awful coworker oversharing stories! But unlike them, I keep that shit to myself.

Change letters and you get: Le Satan.

I am concerned. The body part in the picture does not look like it is still attached to said body.

Again, nobody's beeswax except that of the person to whom said body part belongs or used to belong. But ?!?!

So funny - someone just linked to this in the comments. I've been arguing over there all morning.

I really do have deadlines. And work. And yet....

@DRF - glad I'm not the only one that noticed. Unless someone cut a hole in some plyboard, pushed the penis through it, and THEN pinned it down, there's no way that junk was attached to anything. And a penis shaped hole in some plyboard is typically pretty easy to spot...

Important to remember this is the same guy who wrote a whole series of articles on how some races are just better than others.

@17: Not today's Republican. They deny alt-lifestylers rights for "their own good", which is soooooo much better than saving them from hell.

@26: Some people love oversharing about their sex lives to those who really aren't interested*, but the vast majority do it in the privacy of their own home (or club, whatever) and it's nobody else's goddamned business. The author fantasizing about it is really creepier than it is trying to understand or respect anyone.

*The braggarts are generally boring as hell, anyway.

The prettiest needle pic I've seen! Usually doesn't turn me on but that looks like good handiwork ...

Excellent points. I would add that I disagree with Savage (and Saletan) that sexual orientation does not include bdsm, that components of bdsm are not part of someone's identity. For many people, they are, and it is just as harmful to force someone into the closet about being kinky as it is for someone who is gay. I also do not think that it is relevant whether or not something is a "choice," -religion is a choice, but we let people have the freedom to practice what they want, openly....but that is for another discussion perhaps. All of the same reasons for lgbtq folks to come out exist for kinky folks, and the fact that Saletan focuses so much on specific sex acts is another way that his article mirrors homophobic arguments.

Kinky youth (and adults) often experience a lot of shame around that identity, and coming out to their friends and family would allow them to be their full person, to realize that they are not alone, and to help ensure that they can reach out for help and guidance when they need. Saletan cites violations of consent in bdsm communities as some kind of evidence against kink, and you address that point well. I'd add that if bdsm were more mainstream, it would be safer and easier for victims to get help when they need it. Imagine how hard it is to explain to a cop that, "yes, I let her time me up, but, no I had not given permission for her to rape me" - and if anyone's mind immediately jumps to "well, they shouldn't have put themselves into that situation in the first place...." then I would point them to every victim blaming argument ever (shouldn't have been there, shouldn't have worn that, etc).

I also think that Saletan is confused as to what it means for something to go "mainstream." Heterosexual marriage is unarguably mainstream, and yet, you don't have to say, "hi, this is my wife and we have sex in these ways," or "here is the lingerie I wear for her sometimes." I don't need to bring my girlfriend to the office party on a leash, just like my coworker doesn't need to show the sexy photos he took of his partner to me. When I come out as queer, I don't say "and that means I have this kind of sex with these kinds of people" (although sometimes people still expect me to do that and think that it is ok for them to ask me questions like that - because being queer is still not mainstream). I should be able to come out as kinky without having to also say, "and that means I tie up my girlfriend." But that's part of the privilege of being mainstream - you don't have to explain yourself as much. My mom doesn't need a play-by-play of how I got the rope marks on my legs, but she does need (and wants!) to know that I'm kinky, I'm happy, and I'm ok. She doesn't need to worry about the rope marks. Since kink isn't mainstream, I had to explain all this to her, because I don't want her to worry (and I don't believe in hiding pieces of my life from the people I love - details, private moments, specific sex acts....yes, but core parts of who I am? No.)

I really don't think that Saletan is absurd for pointing out that a comparison between the gay rights movement and BDSM gaining mainstream acceptance is not straightforward or easy. A subculture or fetish which inherently involves violence and unbalanced power dynamics is naturally a lot trickier to deal with a society which values individual rights. Of course consent is the key when it comes to any of these things, but its naive to just assert that anything involving violence, sexual violence, submissiveness and dominance is going to be as easily acceptable as the fact of being with men with men or women with women. (Which wasn't easy and took years of struggle!) This is especially true in a culture which has worked very hard over the past one hundred years to get over societally imbalanced gender power dynamics and tacit social approval of real domestic violence.

Can we make "Saletan" mean the unsanitary mix of sweat, saliva, come, and other bodily fluids that can be the byproduct of BDSM scenes left on dungeon equipment and toys?

Like:

"Hey, can you guys please clean up your Saletan on the spanking bench; there are people who want to use it next? Thanks."

or:

"Yeah, I don't want to use that sex swing. It's got Saletan stains on it and I know I'm a pain-slut, but even *I* won't touch that."

or:

"Man, after last night, I was covered in so much Saletan that I needed a full Silkwood shower when I got home. Maybe I should pace myself next time."

Almost anything can become fused with an individual's developing sexuality and become a lifelong fetish. Some are harmless (feet, shoes,) some life-threatening (knockout scenes,) and some full-on traumatizing if acted upon (child molestation.) Individuals can't really control WHAT becomes a fetish for them, but all are faced with the same decision: Do I act on it, or not? And as with everything, the answer must be, it depends on the fetish.

I don't think it's helpful to automatically label anyone who judges another's expression of their particular sexuality as sex-negative. If a person is attracted to children that is not his or her fault. Hell, it's likely because they themselves were molested as children; that their torment continues into adulthood through such feelings can be downright heart-rending. But all that empathy must goes out the window the moment they make a move on a child. I get the difference between the consensual and non-consensual, but my point lies elsewhere. Namely: Are all sexualities necessarily "okay?"

And no, they are not. Knockout scenes are consensual. I would not want my son or daughter to submit to home-brew anesthetizing regardless of their drives of informed consent. It could kill them and I want them alive.

S&M is not necessarily so extreme, or so dangerous. I do think it's worth investigating what the unintentional real-world consequences of sublimating your will to another might have. Your wants and needs don't matter; you are not equal; your freedom is limited or nonexistent. You can sexually desire all of that. You can sexually enjoy all of that. But all of those things, in other contexts, foster depression. All of those things in other contexts comprise the opening acts in any number of movies and books about liberation and escape from same. Isn't it possible that the particulars of M/s relationships are as psychologically damaging, or even nearly so, as they assuredly are in virtually every other context?

I don't claim to know the answers. But I think these are important questions to ask. We are not our ids. There is often good reason not to act on our feelings. And from the outside, it sure seems like if you find yourself drawn to being beaten up you should absolutely do something about it, but I don't think that thing should probably be to get yourself beaten up.

My reason is simple: Sexuality, for all the joy and trouble it can bring, is only one aspect of a modern life. The intensity of the drive can skew our appreciation of that, but that's why it can be especially important to take a step back. How will this behavior affect me out of the bedroom? How will it affect my relationships outside the bedroom? How will it impact my near and long term physical and psychological well-being?

It's easy to conflate all this with LGBT politics and civil rights and all the rest, but that should be resisted. A person can love steak yet be a vegetarian. It doesn't make them food negative.

I think this is an interesting article but I'm going to have disagree with a few points. Most people who participate in kinky sex aren't necessarily into BDSM per se. Pretty much every vanilla couple enjoys a little variety and occasionally mixing it up with handcuffs, rope, and/or possibly a little spanking isn't unusual. It's also not necessary to achieve sexual satisfaction for them it's just a bit of fun that they could take or leave. What makes participating in BDSM on a regular basis different is that those who participate do so because it meets needs within them. To me the idea of sexual orientation shouldn't be pigeon holed anyway into certain ideas. The key term in the phrase "sexual orientation" is orientation. If you look at the definition of orientation in a psychological context it usually refers to the concept of knowing or being aware of your basic beliefs and preferences and how you think life should be for you in different situations. In that sense, Sexual Orientation goes beyond whether you prefer men or women.