Comments

1
Traditionally, the RC church has "stayed in touch" by co-opting a group's historical heroes and traditions. That's where all these saints and holy days came from. Do they need to canonize Ronald Reagan, MLK & Joe DiMaggio to keep America in the fold?
2
If a world-wide poll were taken, the results would probably be a lot more conservative.

The United States sees the catholic church as irrelevent, and I suspect the feeling is mutual.
3
It's ironic that American politicians care more about what Catholics think than their own church does.
4
@ 3, that's what comes with being the nation's single largest denomination, and one with international power as well. Politicians will genuflect, even if the actual members don't.
5
Most American Catholics believe in their own moral compass over the teachings of the Pope and very few believe the pope is infallible.

And yet they still scream: BUT WITHOUT RELIGION HOW CAN WE HAVE A MORAL COMPASS?

I must now infer that Religion is showing us what NOT to do...
6
This is why it's such a disgrace that every time any mainstream media outlet (especially cable news of course) mentions anything related to the church they have to get a quote or appearance from Timothy Dolan or Bill Fucking Donahue. It makes me sick that Timothy Dolan might actually BECOME THE POPE too.
8
And further, note how many Catholics use birth control. The days of the huge catholic broods are mostly long gone.

And yet, while the Church mostly turns a blind eye to its members' use of birth control, the members also put NO PRESSURE on the leadership to change.

NONE.

As Dan points out in his NALT posts, its long past time for the everyday catholic churchgoers to stop hiding behind their flaming hypocracy and SPEAK THE FUCK UP about this.
9
It's probably a big wake-up call, I know, but: America is NOT the world. It's this kind of worldview that makes the world take us for assholes. Most Catholics in the world likely don't agree with American Catholics. Get out much?
10
I was smugly happy as I read the article, but was disappointed (appalled?) when I read that, when asked to list the number one problem the church needs to address, the top 4 responses had to do with membership and cohesion. Confronting the rape of children ranked #4.

Is this because people think enough is being done, or the problem isn't that bad, or they're in denial? Whatever it is, it disgusts me that doing something about sexual abuse isn't the number 1 thing on the list. Alas, religion will always be about expanding the in-group. Wish ethics came first instead.
11
edit: top 3
12
@9) That's why this whole post is about American Catholics, specifically the political agenda of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
13
@6,

Calm down -- you have as much chance of becoming pope as Dolan does. They just throw his name around to pretend that there's an American in contention.
14
@4 And it highlights each institution's structure. Government is from the people- up and the church is from the top- down. Government responds to changing environments, attitudes and needs. The church is never changing, staid, solid. You have to wonder if they don't reflect some dual human need. Or if it reflects human social evolution.
15
Amazingly enough, 77 million American Catholic are only a tiny percentage of Catholics worldwide, so for some reason the College of Cardinals probably isn't going to pay much attention to what they want.
It's so Amerocentric that all American media seem to view the Papal election the same as an American election, and can't conceive of cultures outside America having influence or mattering. They also don't seem to understand that no matter who is elected the next pope the teachings of the church won't change, no matter how hard they wish or how many words they write. Something something about absolute truth and no moral relativism or whatnot.
16
@5 "Most American Catholics believe in their own moral compass over the teachings of the Pope and very few believe the pope is infallible."

You are aware, as Catholics generally are, that the Pope isn't infallible on a day to day basis, but only in those statements where he invokes it?

For instance, no pope has proclaimed the Church's teaching on abortion in a specific ex cathedra statement declaring it as an essential matter of faith and infallibly true, so in so far as American Catholics disagree they are not butting against papal infallibility.

Further, your argument whole argument is somewhat specious, as the Catholic Church has always held to the primacy of conscience and taught that individuals must follow their consciences even when they are wrong. So, in so far as American Catholics trust their conscience, informed by church teaching, over specific church teaching, that is actually in line with an essential part of church teaching.

Certainly, there are real problems with the Catholic Church and with many religious urges in human beings, but your specific critique seems flawed.
17
@16. I love how getting taken to church just does not have the same bite as being taken to school. I guess it is because schools are about being right and church is for convincing rubes to believe your line if bs.
18
Talking about Catholic clergy being "in touch" gives me an icky feeling. Please stop using that metaphor.

And it boggles the mind that anybody continues to believe that the world's largest international child-rapist protection racket has any moral credibility on any topic — and especially that a bunch of creepy unmarried "celibate" boy-raping priests should be taken seriously when they dispense advice about sexual morality.
19
#5 - the doctrine of papal infallibility is almost always misunderstood, even by Catholics. No pope has made an "infallible" declaration since 1950. Neither Ratzinger nor John Paul II have done or said anything that is considered infallible.
20
@19
And the 1950 declaration was the one proclaiming that the Virgin Mary did not have a physical death, but was, instead, assumed bodily into Heaven.

So it must be true.
21
The Catholics I know are all very liberal -- vote for Dems, have no problem with gay rights, abortion, birth control. Not sure why the Catholic hierarchy is insisting on being so conservative and rigid.

That's not a way to grow your church or keep it relevant in a secular country.
22
The European solution has simply been to leave. Church attendance & income is busy crashing, w/ churches standing empty for years. American Catholics don't seem to be taking that route, at least not on the level of Europe.

What I got out of the article was that US Catholics are more interested in keeping their church but bending it to their will than they are of simply leaving.

I'd be interested in reading an article about Central & South American Catholics, how they've handled this. They have their own unique history, and have already experienced what the US is getting now: A very pro-human priesthood against a very authoritarian hierarchy (and in the past, often in bed w/ the current dictator).
23
@22 Good cop/bad cop way to pull the wool over their eyes.

Please wait...

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