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Truer words have never, NEVER, been spoken. (OK, written.)
Still, when someone comes around (quite publicly) to your side, spitting in their face isn't really the best idea. Thank Senator Portman, especially thank Will Portman, move on, keep fighting.
* though cozying up to assholes if a fine thing to do, if done literally.
Yeah, our family has been pro-same sex marriage (at age 4 my daughter considered it a no-brainer because duh, obviously her best friend's parents were married by her understanding of how marriage worked), but this isn't her taking a bold stand. This is her reflecting the social norm in her (Massachusetts) high school, for how you think about same sex marriage if you're not some complete moron.
2. What's worse than not taking a stand for other people's children is not even taking a stand for your own. But most parents come around...eventually, or partially.
It does get better. :)
Here, troll! Where are you?
Though even my elderly Republican father came around on same sex marriage, on grounds of personal freedom and the state letting people live their lives.
ANYWAY, I just wanted to point this line out: "Terry and I got so gay last night that we rear-ended three people."
Please please tell me that pun was intentional. I laughed so hard!
Which was a very successful strategy for them -- until it .wasn't
Soooo in a sense it was they who brung it up, and now they're reaping the whirlwind.
But correct me, if I'm wrong.
Oh man, glad I'm not the only one who's had those nights.
Portman didn't come over to our side. He came over to his side. Fuck him.
His side is our side. Every one on it is appreciated, no matter when they got here or what they did before.
The last 20 years have seen an amazingly fast social change in the understanding of equality and what that means for our civil law. A sitting Republican Senator is a huge deal. And like some of us, including Dan, have been saying all along, people like him probably wouldn't have ever changed his mind due to arguments, no matter how well presented. They do it out of love. His love for his son made him a better person. For me, that is something to celebrate, not something to spit upon.
There are plenty of prominent republicans with gay family members who just consider it their private family business and keep quiet who their colleagues beat up on gay people. Bravo to Sen. Portman for speaking up and standing with his son. I wish he had done so sooner, but I bet he does too.
In this case, it may not be a matter of virtue, but of ability to comprehend and talk about a normative position for which there was no place or explanation. Making things personally important gives him a way to talk about this - "I don't see how a just God can hate homosexuals, because I know personally that my son is a good person" - that he didn't have before in his belief/culture system.
People tend to overrule groupthink when personal evidence points to the contrary, and they need some time to process the cognitive dissonance; that has to happen on an individual basis if there are no supportive groups helping them to transition (like PFLAG). I don't think that Sen. Portman had a lot of people he could just call up and talk about this change of heart with (Dick Cheney doesn't take phone calls, I'm sure). Meanwhile, the groupthinkers he left probably see it as a betrayal, and so they're out in force even stronger to shore up their wavering faith in their beliefs.
So I agree that Will Portman is the hero here, but we need to welcome Rob to the party, even if he came late. And he can be a designated straight driver.
But that process can be slow.
Getting to the ALL 4 year olds and brain washing them is much much more effective,
Which is why Pre-K GSA is so vital.
Once the Hitler Youth got rolling
it took less than a decade to turn the Germans into loyal Nazis
and drive out competing schools of thought.
And that certainly worked out well.
This is how a civilization falls.
Join the herd! Faster!! We're Winning!!! Don't be left behind!!!
Pay no attention to the cliff ahead....
Life is Hard but it is Fair.
You make your Choices and you reap the Consequences.
Inevitably.
Sure,
sometimes you can delay the inevitable,
and drag a few more folks down with you,
but the End always comes.
People like Danny make their choice,
double down despite their nagging doubts,
convince them self that this is What They Are;
it is sad but that's how life works.
We feel sorry for Danny.
We feel more sorry for the weak minded followers in society.
In a culture where enlightened prudent values dominate
they will usually make those good choices and reap the rewards of a fulfilled life.
But where the dominant values are enticing corruptions and perversions they are easily swayed.
Rats that, unwisely, stream ONTO the sinking ship.
The increasing momentum of the descent into depravity is telling.
Unfortunately they are growing up in the Qunited States of Gommorica.
The values their civilization is relentlessly pushing
only lead to misery, disappointment, destruction.
Fewer and fewer will have the courage to stay the course.
Will the HomoLiberals descend into decades of violent economic demographic epidemiological chaos
and tear each other apart as resources become scarce?
Or will N Korea or some tsunami/quake/volcano provide a quicker more merciful conclusion?
stay tuned.....
Porter. Profile in Courage or Swarming Rat?
You know the answer.......
haha. cute.
and yet, you must admit that our civilization IS spiraling out of control;
financial crisis the president will not even recognize (civilizations in decline are good at denial...);
a population that is unable to provide its own health care or education without massive government subsidy (civilizations in decline are very poor at Personal Responsibility),
family structure evaporating (more than half of kids born to single women, alas are there enough gallant homosexual marrieds to Save Our Children?)
of course it may be a coincidence that Danny's Big Fat Gay Victory comes along at the same time America is swirling down the Crapper but it is just possible that embracing homosexuality is a symptom of a Civilization on its last tottering leg.
it does now.....
In any case, spitting in people's faces when they have come around is the very last thing you should do; lots of Republicans who've exploited this issue cynically - paid lip service to hate not on principle but merely to exploit hatred as a means of rabble-rousing - will now come around in droves. It is particularly galling because unlike the true-believers, they aren't even doing it out of some (twisted) genuine principle - they know it's bigotry and they still feed it.
But Dan's right: the more those who persist in the bigotry keep talking, the more they lose the PR war. Saying "fuck you" to people who come around (too late) doesn't do anything except make our side look hateful. Even if being gracious to these people feels like letting them off the hook for horrible behavior.
Speaking of which, I don't live in DC but I do live close by and I'm there frequently, and I do make a point of spitting at or giving the finger to the Bigot's "C Street" fraternity house whenever I can.
If I'm in a good mood and feeling strong, I'll read a hateful article, and even jump in to comments and push back against the bigots. If I'm having a bad day or feeling vulnerable, I'll just skip the latest article about NOM. Their rhetoric never changes, and I know it will do me no good to read about it, again. Or I might read an article, but skip the comment section full of crazy (depends on the website).
I do agree with Dan about being out publicly. I don't think I've changed any minds when I go off on a rant on a comment thread. But I know that living my life as an openly gay person has changed the minds of coworkers and associates over the years. People have told me so. It is impossible for them to square the crazy shit Tony Perkins says with the reality of knowing me in person.
A new social norm - one which makes it socially unacceptable to express certain attitudes and opinions - will silence bigots, but the attitudes don't really change underneath. They just die out.
If you smugly let your neighbors' houses burn, but only join the fire brigade when your own house is smoking, you're and ass. Its nice that you're finally helping out, but you're still an ass.
Before I nominate him for sainthood, though, I'd like him to not only announce that there should be equality going forward from the point he found out it affects people he cares about, but also that looking backward, he was wrong to work so vocally against it in the past.
This isn't just another bigot who spouted crap in the past - this is an influential person who consciously chose to use his influence against millions of his fellow citizens who never did him any harm.
It's acceptable when a bully stops beating on people. It's wonderful when such a bully starts working on anti-bullying measures. But the apology to those he hurt - including, in this case, the harm he did his son - is still important.
Not the least because, while his own son seems to have come though this to be an out proud gay man, other people's son's and daughters are dead because of him and his party and its attitudes and the laws they have passed, and which his party is still fighting to defend.
I'm glad he's on our side. This change of heart is wonderful. It's going to make a big difference if he sticks with it, and if it gives others the courage to do the same. And nothing he can do can change the past. But that past needs to be acknowledged at some point.
When the bully stops pounding on you, "We're friends, right?" has to come after, "I'm sorry." And turning around to defend you against the bullies who haven't stopped the pounding is one way to show that. We're watching.
Again, it's great that Portman has picked up a bucket and is now pitching in a bit, but I haven't heard anything from him by way of apology for voting for laws that damaged lives. In fact he would like the SCOTUS to not rule for marriage equality.
He has come around enough that he wants his son to have the same opportunities for happiness as his other children...somewhere in a time yet to come. That is still basically self-serving. He has no sense of urgency for the people who are denied--by his vote amongst others--equal rights now.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/…
He doesn't accept that marriage is a right - just that he's OK with some states granting us marital status.
But check out the man's record. He's a horror story. Completely anti-choice, completely anti-gay, completely anti-health care.
He's carved out one teeny, tiny exception to his grotesque bigotry just big enough to squeeze his son through.
So yes, damn right I'll spit on him. He's still my enemy in every way but one.
@42: Unless you literally only care about equal rights for gay people with respect to marriage, Portman is in no way, shape, or form "on our side". He's still a racist, misogynist, Christianist, corporatist plutocrat who just happens to finally agree about some narrow policy positions because they might impact his gay son, whom he loves. He's not getting a cookie until he backs the broad social justice movement as a whole, something that intrinsically necessitates leaving the Republican Party (also possibly the Democratic Party), dedicated as it is to maintaining all kinds of social privilege. Similarly, I'm disgusted by Obama's continuing support from the nominal Left - the man's a war-mongering patriarchal plutocrat who insists he has the legal right to execute anyone - including Americans on American soil - solely on a top-level aide's say-so that the person is up to no good (okay, "terrorism", which is simply an ideograph and is thus wildly insufficient for a legal definition, even if any other part of the claimed assassination rights was acceptable). You're not electing people to rule or legislate on a single issue, and you need to stop acting like you are, for all of our sakes.