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Umm?
http://fanfeedback.seahawks.com/seahawks…
His last tweet said, "[The player coming out] will immediately separate a lockerroom and divide a team". That's not a comment on sexuality, it's a factual statement. And on a football team with some more conservative players, it's quite likely to be a true statement.
The tweet before that called coming out "a selfish act. They just trying to make themselves bigger than the team." But if the act of coming out were to cause problems with some other players and affect the team's performance, then one might very well call coming out in that context selfish. It's certainly putting the gay agenda over the team's agenda.
Look, I have no idea if this player's a homophobe or not. Maybe there's some other context I'm missing. Maybe he really is trying to send a message that openly gay players aren't welcome. But there's at least a decent chance that he's only worried about someone coming out distracting from what all of the players are supposedly there to do.
In an ideal world, that concern would be groundless. It may yet turn out to be so. But it ain't an ideal world and there's a chance he's right for reasons that have nothing to do with his own personal views.
It's disturbing how quick supposedly responsible people on our side are to jump to conclusions and start labeling people right off the bat.
Of course they won't.
The NFL is like the Air Force, professional golf, and the Republican Party: an arm of a strange and particularly virulent strain of Christianity.
Lombardi's decision to sign black players and treat them fairly with the white players was pretty unpopular - you might say "divisive" - but that didn't stop the Packers from winning championships, did it?
Should Jackie Robinson have stayed out of Major League Baseball? Was he being "selfish" to bring that kind of attention to the Dodgers?
Teams have a choice whether or not they LET things become distractions. A well managed, well coached team will find a way to move past it.
Is there really no neutral ground? Are we all really George W. "For Us or Against Us" Bush now? I don't really care about football personally. Nor am I the type to hit a Starbucks or a Chick-fil-a, not because I give a damn about what some corporate schmuck said about gay rights, but because I'm not a coffee drinker and don't care for fast food generally.
Social conservatives are now making an argument that they are victims of the gay rights movement because any businesses they run are pressured to approve same-sex marriage. That's a bullshit argument too: if I go to a flower shop, it's because I'm buying flowers, not seeking the owner's approval for however I choose to lead my life.
But now that we're forcing businesses and teams to line and talk about just how gay friendly they are, it's playing right into the social con victimology.
How about this: if I want to get married, I'll go to the government for the license and my friends and family for my celebration and approval (and gifts...don't forget gifts). I'll do just fine without the insincere approval of the likes of the Seahawks and the players on the team.
My point is that Clemons is right that it could cause a problem on some teams. Yeah sure, that's ultimately a management and leadership issue that should be handled appropriately. But maybe it won't be, in which case, Clemons is right, it could affect the team, and would be putting the player's interests (and ours) over his ostensible reason for being there.
And ultimately my main point is that Clemons isn't necessarily a homophobe for pointing that out. And that we shouldn't be accusing people unless we're sure of ourselves.
What are you planning to do about it, when enough people find out that you refused to denounce the homophobic bigotry spouted in public by one of your employees, who cannot be seen as doing anything other than representing your team?
This will not go away if you do not spell out clearly that you SUPPORT your gay employees, that you will NOT TOLERATE an employee expressing animosity toward your gay fans, and that you were WRONG not to do so immediately.
An apology is going to come from you. The question is whether it happens after you have been further embarrassed and shamed, or before then.
Whose fault is it that there might be divisiveness if a gay player comes out? The player? No. Society in general and the homophobic atmosphere that the owners/coaches allow to dominate the locker room are responsible.
How do we resolve this? By forcing a gay player to remain in the closet? To live a lie? Just to make the Clemons' of the world feel more secure in their heterosexuality? No. The owners/coaches need to grow a spine and engage in a little leadership. They need to foster a locker room climate that encourages all players, gay and straight, to live honestly and openly and to participate fully on the team, regardless of their background. They've learned to live with diversity of race and religion. They can learn to live with diversity of orientations too. It really isn't all that hard.
@11 - "Social conservatives are now making an argument that they are the victims of the civil rights movement because any businesses they run are pressured to approve desegregation and equal rights. That's a bullshit argument too; if I go to a flower shop, it's because I'm buying flowers, not seeking the owner's approval of the color of my skin."
Clemons is simply a garden variety bigot. He probably doesn't even think he's homophobic, and has little or no understanding of the implications of his statements. And even if he is a bigot, he's entitled to his personal opinion, regardless of how much I disagree with him.
The Seahawks, on the other hand, are cowards for being silent. By remaining silent, management is implicitly endorsing Clemons' view that a gay player should just shut the fuck up and stay in the closet. That rampant homophobia in locker rooms is perfectly fine. That silence is a perfectly acceptable response in one of the most gay-friendly cities in the country.
Seahawks, management: Clemons' statement disappoints me. Your craven silence utterly disgusts me.
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"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
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I predict kiss-ins.
What is going on with this weird gay Chris conspiracy?
Vince Lombardi would have shipped his *ss out of town (and, YES, Lombardi knew the existence of gay players on his teams and wouldn't have tolerated it just like he didn't tolerate racism)...
But whatever, go attack Pete Carol over something he is powerless to do anything about. Talk to the owner or the general manager. I'm sure they are desperate to hear from non-fans who hate football and never plan on ever attending a game.
@5, you know this how? You play for the Seahawks? Any other NFL team? I'll wait.
No data, attribution, etc. Then it's not a fact.
"Clemons was trying to bully a player from coming out."
That is absolutely the story in a nutshell.
The question I have for Clemons is, if his brother or sister were gay, would he support them coming out?
I believe most of today’s professional athletes (remember most were born after 1980) would support their siblings regardless of who they choose to marry. A lot have said so.
Charles Barkley, a long-time supporter of gay marriage and gay rights, says he knows he had gay teammates and couldn't care less.
Buffalo Bills safety George Wilson said of a gay teammate, “As long as you can stay productive and get the job done, you’re still gonna remain one of the guys.”
Atlanta Falcons defensive lineman Ray Edwards said of the prospect of a gay teammate, “I’d be very open to it. ... I don’t have a problem with it at all.”
Detroit Tigers pitcher Justin Verlander said in a CNN interview: “I don’t think one of our players would be scared to come out. We got 25 guys, it’s a family, and our goal is to win a World Series. What your sexual orientation is, I don’t see how that affects the ultimate goal of our family."
“For me, it’s obvious that everyone should have the same rights and ability to play the game. It doesn’t matter race or sexual orientation."
-Henrik Lundqvist New York Rangers 2012 Vezina Trophy winner for best NHL goaltender
Michael Irvin, NFL Hall of Famer, said he would support any athlete in the NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB who comes out.
Cleveland Browns LB Scott Fujita first voiced his support for gay marriage in 2009, reacting and agreeing with fellow NFL colleague Brendon Ayanbadejo.
Donte Stallworth, New England Patriots WR, showed support on Twitter, tweeting a string of messages for marriage equality and LGBT rights
NBA All-Star Steve Nash says he’s proud to be a part of a growing group of athletes speaking out for gay marriage.
San Antonio Spurs Manu Ginobli supported the movement to legalize gay marriage in Argentina.
Michael Strahan of the NY Giants said, “I feel it's unfair to keep committed couples from being married."
Zdeno Chara, captain of the 2011 Stanley Cup Champion Boston Bruins, states that he will back an openly gay hockey player, declaring "I will always stand up for my teammates."
These pros make me glad to be an athletic supporter!
Because the actions of individuals reflect the organization itself. That's why the CEO who slapped the black baby on that plane got fired.
What other controversies have Seahawks players been involved in in the past? Have the Seahawks also condoned these players' actions?
Love your phrase, "a DISGUSTING speck of human grime."
I've been so touched by the "equality" movement of late, I like to see us all as disgusting specks of human grime! Unite!
If you are involved with child porn or bestiality, you should just shut the hell up. I'm not saying anything against you, obviously, but that's what you should do if you are involved with child porn or bestiality.
Steve Largent is a Seahawk god who, as a member of the US House of Representatives, introduced a bill banning adoption for gay and lesbian parents. Does that fact that his number is in the Ring of Honor mean that the Seahawks organization agrees with this stance? Should we be demanding its removal?
A head's up that anyone familiar with little old southern gentrified, and usually, "christian," ladies recognizes that as a euphemism for "well, christ on a goddamn popsicle stick, go fuck yourself. twice."
Yes, I think Williams' actions did reflect the organization--or at least they didn't have a problem with it if it were an individual action. But it's a different issue. Williams' statement was one of inclusion, whereas Clemons' was one of exclusion. Unless you're one of those men's rights or white rights advocates, you probably see the difference.
As for Largent, I don't think he was a Seahawk when he was in the U.S. house. Clemons is currently actively involved with the organization. It's like if a high school student burns a cross on the football field. I would expect the school to issue a statement of condemnation. But if an alumnus or alumna of the high school burned a cross somewhere, the high school doesn't really have any responsibility--although I suppose that it might want to rethink any permanent honors it had bestowed upon the alum. I think an example of this is Galileo High School in San Francisco, which once called its football field O.J. Simpson Field.
http://fogbay.com/2008_01_10_fog-bay_arc…
Nobody in the NFL in the last 20 years has been a bigger distraction to their team.
Why is it okay when Tebow said he hoped to use his public profile to spread God's word, but it's not okay for a gay NFL player to spread the message that everybody has a place on the team?
I meant @71, not @67.
His last tweet said, "[The player coming out] will immediately separate a lockerroom and divide a team". That's not a comment on sexuality, it's a factual statement. And on a football team with some more conservative players, it's quite likely to be a true statement.
Speculation on events that have yet to happen, regardless of how likely, is not fact. All facts are true.
OK, if Clemons is speaking for himself--that he will be the divisive element in the team because he can't deal with an out gay team mate--he is stating a fact, but he said, "I'm not against anyone . . ."
Since you'll may be reading the comments, let me just say this here: This is a massive PR failure on your/the Seahawks part. Huge. Enormous. Ginormous. Double-Ginormous. And it didn't have to get anywhere close to this bad.
You have some fence mending to do.
All the grandstanding and haranguing?
In the end, an active player will eventually come out. It WILL be a huge distraction, it MIGHT divide parts of the locker room, and the organization will of course say that they support the decision.
And then what happens happens.
None of what happened as a result of this story will actually change a single thing.
You shamed an organization into placating you all with lip service.
Sigh. Funny thing is - the first good player who comes out will be wildly supported and a media superstar. An historical figure, as they say.