Comments
Please wait...
Comments are closed.
Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.
Editors' Picks
is a proud member of the
media network
media network
All contents © Index Newspapers LLC
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
A lot of hetero American women watch lesbian porn alone or with their male lovers. Without necessarily wanting to do what they see. Sometimes, it's just about being curious or seeing something novel. Sometime it's watching what turns on their partner. Can you imagine a straight male American man doing the same thing? I can't. (On the other hand, I once had a nonAmerican lover who would "watch" gay male porn with me...didn't turn him on at all...he was watching me watch the porn....)
Hetero American women aren't afraid of seeing each other naked in the same way hetero American men seem to be. Or seeing other women as sexy or sexual. While hetero men everywhere have an "ick" factor women don't....American men are very, very bad at demonizing anything they perceive as gay of feminine.
Hetero American women who confess to thinking about lesbian sex aren't immediately branded as "ew, gay!". Men would be. A woman can be curious, but straight. A man can't be.
I say American for a reason....having lived in many different countries and having been exposed to many different cultures, the American fetishization of lesbians and demonization of gay men is not universal. I've lived some places where being a gay man was ok (because men = sex) but being a lesbian was bad (because she should want to be a mother and wife).
Heterosexual American Male is not the default or universal for male.
Point being, I would not take these studies as gospel on what men are naturally...just what some men are...particularly young, educated, hetero American men.
I think people can have fantasies (including porn scenarios, whether visual or written) that they wouldn't want to enact in real life. It's probably healthy and a sign of a good erotic imagination. Like a pirate scenario may be your favorite at the moment, but any attempt at real-life re-enactment would feel hopelessly cheesy and anti-erotic.
1) Physical arousal is not always a good indicator of psychological arousal and what women actually find appealing, especially since when any sexual activity is going on a woman is more likely to be raped, so having physical arousal decreases her odds of being as badly physically harmed if she is raped and thus would have survival value
2) Women don't know when they are aroused and physical arousal is more important than actually feeling aroused, so it's fair to say that they are turned on by things even though they aren't at all psychologically aroused.
3) Women are far, far kinkier than men and lie about their psychological arousal in studies and are turned on by things that nobody expects most women to be turned on by.
Which actually seems most likely?
If the study isn't using self-report of psychological arousal, then it isn't valid on women, because studies have shown that physical and psychological arousal do not go hand in hand with women. And then further studies ignore that and continue to use a known faulty measurement tool, which finds such vast diversity of female sexuality, because hey, if she's physically aroused, she wanted it, right?
Note: 15 has a good post following up on the idea of physical vs psychological arousal in women and post 2. Worth clicking.
FIRST, YOU SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN CLEARER SENTENCES. YOUR WRITING CAN BE INTERPRETED IN DIFFERENT WAYS. SO, I AM REPLYING TO WHAT I THINK YOU MEANT.
I DISAGREE. YOU TYPE, "A straight-identified guy with a girlfriend who loves to eat pussy and secretly watches a little gay porn? That guy is bisexual and closeted." WHAT MAKES HIM bisexual, Mr. Savage? IF THE GIRLFRIEND ENJOYS lesbian sex, IT SEEMS SHE IS HIS "BEARD;" YOUR FOCUS ON THE WORD "secretly" IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE.
I THINK YOU CONFUSED THIS HETEROSEXUAL FEMALE. ANY MALE WHO WATCHES gay porn - SECRETLY, OR, OPENLY - IS HOMOSEXUAL, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE IS ENGAGED IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A FEMALE.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
OMG what a bunch of bullshit.
Your average American male jock will have seen more naked men in his lifetime than women. From grades 7-12, I showered with 8 other guys in a group shower 5 days a week during football and wrestling season.
And before every wrestling match, we all stripped naked and got on the scale for weigh-ins while everyone watched.
My frat also had a group shower, which meant more naked time with the guys.
And I see at least 1 cock with every visit to the Gold's Gym locker room, in part because the dividers between the shower are made of glass.
GREAT COMMENTS; I WAS THINKING ALONG SIMILAR LINES.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY IN WHICH MONEY REIGNS SUPREME IN RELATIONSHIPS. HETEROSEXUAL MALES PROBABLY LIKE FEMALES WHO ENJOY lesbian porn BECAUSE IT MEANS HE DOES NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HER SPENDING HIS MONEY WITH ANOTHER MALE. AND, I BELIEVE FEMALES WHO WATCH lesbian porn WITH THEIR MALE LOVERS ARE DOING SO AS A WAY TO DEAL WITH THOSE MALES WHO HAVE BROUGHT-UP THE SUBJECT OF AN ACTUAL ENGAGEMENT IN MENAGE-A-TROIS.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
Mr. Savage GAVE THE gay man's answer TO A HETEROSEXUAL FEMALE WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF THE HOMOSEXUAL PSYCHE. Mr. Savage LED THIS FEMALE TO BELIEVE THIS TYPE OF MALE/FEMALE SITUATION AUTOMATICALLY INVOLVES SEXUAL INTIMACY BETWEEN THEM. FOR HETEROSEXUALS, THAT TYPE OF ASSUMPTION CONFUSES THEM IN REFERENCE TO WHAT MAKES bisexuality.
I have to agree with seandr, but just the opposite: the American female hetero college students I got to know are absolutely horrified by the thought of being seen naked by other women.
While I was in an American college, I shared a room with another student for the whole year. She managed to change her clothes so discreetly that I never saw her naked. On the other hand, she had no qualms about telling me how much she loved her boyfriend's cock and how she sucked him off while he was driving. The other American students wouldn't shower at the swimming pool because there were shared showers (no glass dividers), just us Europeans did.
YOUR COMMENT SUGGESTS YOU ARE THE "butch" ONE AND YOUR LADY IS THE "chic" ONE. SO, TO HAVE AN OVERTLY MALE PERSONA DURING SEX IS WHY YOU WATCH gay-male porn.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
@15: the study you're talking about only made claims about physiological arousal. It never claimed it was "discovering what women are REALLY turned on by" - that's a media spin. It only documented blood flow to the nether regions. We can interpret that how we wish. It's true that psychological arousal frequently doesn't line up with physiological arousal, but that doesn't mean that either type of arousal is "real" or "fake".
ABW, you're totally nailing it in this thread. Rock on.
And finally - Dan, your response was pretty reductionist, but this letter-writer sounds braindead, so you can be forgiven for thinking of this as a softball question.
YOU TYPE, "I think people can have fantasies ... that they wouldn't want to enact in real life." I DISAGREE. FEAR IS WHY PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THEIR FANTASIES.
EVEN, IN OUR CONTEMPORARY TIME, CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT WHICH TYPES OF SEX ARE ACCEPTABLE/UNACCEPTABLE. PEOPLE CHOOSE LONG-TERM MATES FOR SOCIO-ECONOMIC REASONS. ACCORDING TO THEM, THE LAST THING THEY WANT IS TO BE HOOKED-UP WITH A FREAK. IN REFERENCE TO YOUR "pirate scenario," THERE ARE A LOT OF SEX/COSTUME SHOPS WHICH ARE MAKING TONS OF MONEY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO "DRESS-UP."
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
It's bad enough when the Hulk does it.
And just to belabor my original point, I, an American hetero male, have probably seen 5 miles worth of cock in my life, and I'll be damned if I don't see a mile more before I die. After seeing my first 10 feet worth of cock, seeing cock no longer phased me. At all. Seriously - show me your cock, and I'll yawn.
And FWIW, I've watched gay porn before, both out of curiosity and to see what I'm missing. Turns out, I'm missing a lot of really vigorous rim jobs. If I hooked up with a woman who wanted to watch gay rim job porn with me, my first thought would be "jackpot!"
And, my very first 15 year old girlfriend had a small stash of gay porn. I distinctly recall her showing me a shoot entitled "Enuardo and Raul". She passed it off as a joke, but now I realize she was probably quite turned on by it. In any case, it didn't bother me at all, and this was before I'd become enlightened about homosexuality.
After reading the comments on the previous post, I have decided that the all-caps are actually quite useful, inasmuch as they provide a visual cue to skip over the comment without reading it, much as one would do with... um...unregistered.
I ASSUME YOU ARE NEW. SEARCH MY NAME ON THIS SITE AND YOU WILL SEE CAPITAL LETTERS ARE A PART OF MY WRITING STYLE.
WOW! I THOUGHT EVERYONE ON THIS SITE IS USED TO SEEING MY COMMENTARY.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
[By the way, I like to type my name at the end of my commentary because I am not ashamed of what I type].
Some of the discussion here is way too deep for me. Based on what I've heard as well as personal experience as a straight guy, women are more sexually fluid than guys. You can conclusively ascertain whether a guy is straight or gay by the porn that he watches. He's got computer folders full of women (with all apologies to Mitt Romney)? You got yourself a straight guy. I don't care if he's been a virgin for fifty years. On the other hand, his collection is a bunch of guy action with basically no girl action? Unless he's got a hearty sexual relationship with a woman, you can conclude that the guy's gay. This is the same thing as Dan said, and my sense as a straight guy is that he's right. I'm not interested at all in gay porn because I don't want to think about rolling around with guys.
(I'll throw a wrinkle in there, though: What about guys who like pegging? My best guess is that this is as much about fantasizing about power as it is about sex.)
Women, though, are supposedly more turned on by the porn they create in their heads - thus we have the billion-dollar romance novel industry, thus we have Twilight, thus we have Fifty Shades - and they are also more open to the enchantments of other women. Since I'm not a woman, I can't figure this out, but, as a straight guy, I say, why wouldn't anyone find women attractive?
@40: FUCK THE HATERZ STAY TRUE TO YOUR STYLE DOG!!!
You really need to learn a thing or two about team work.
Same with a straight guy who watches a lot of gay porn. He's going to have to do a lot of explaining pretty regularly if that's his preference.
I blame Queen Victoria.
If you assume nocutename is new, you are much more newbie than her.
But I totally understand. It is just part of my speaking style to get two inches from the face of whomever I ma talking to and yell as loud as I can, beginning each sentence with "ALAN SAYS:". People just need to chill about it.
lol You are such a rebel. And by rebel I mean douchebag.
Yet in real life, I am not attracted whatsoever to women sexually (this doesn't mean I don't find women and their bodies beautiful; I do), and I would be unlikely to be part of virtually all gay men's actual sex life (they would not want me to be there. I wouldn't be welcome to participate, and I'm not likely to be the object of anyone's desire) .
So for someone to judge my actual sexual preferences and/or behavior/experiences by the erotica I read would just be silly.
*wild applause*
This letter reminded me of The Kids Are Alright - there's a scene where the lesbian couple watch gay porn, for those who don't know. Guys are typically more visually activated, while girls can get off on the psychology of sex more easily. But there's always going to be exceptions to those rules, and @51 is one of them. So I don't see that a straight guy watching gay porn has to be gay or even bi.
Or do you think she's concerned about straight men being accused of closeted lesbianism?
That pretty much sounds like you.
Now, if you sometimes like watching cocks do gay things, or sometimes like your cock to do gay things, or sometimes like cocks to do gay things to you...then you can identify as straight, but nobody has to take you seriously.
I like gay porn because - unlike in straight porn - I don't have to look at a woman with a far superior body to mine who doesn't appear to be having any kind of a good time.
Your average American male jock"
Most American males are not in the military and do not participate in competitive sports. Women change in front of each other all the time. I don't think your experience matches the rest of the country.
So where the hell is the lesbian porn for lesbians? No fair.
I just can't trust them, either of them.
Some statistics show as well that more straight men watch gay porn than straight women watch lesbian porn. http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&e…
The difference is that the first group is silent about it.
And that myth of women being more bi than men is pure bullshit. Read the Kinsey reports: 37% of American men have had gay sex, but only 15% of women have had lesbian sex.
Also, that study that you talked about, in which women showed physical arousal to all stimuli has NOTHING to do with women being bi. The researchers concluded that physical arousal in women is automathic, to prevent rape injuries, and doesn't match their true sexual orientation. The same has been found with faked rape stimuli. Women respond as a defensive mean, but men don't.
Some statistics show as well that more straight men watch gay porn than straight women watch lesbian porn. http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&e…
The difference is that the first group is silent about it.
And that myth of women being more bi than men is pure bullshit. Read the Kinsey reports: 37% of American men have had gay sex, but only 15% of women have had lesbian sex.
Also, that study that you talked about, in which women showed physical arousal to all stimuli has NOTHING to do with women being bi. The researchers concluded that physical arousal in women is automathic, to prevent rape injuries, and doesn't match their true sexual orientation. The same has been found with faked rape stimuli. Women respond as a defensive mean, but men don't.
If you watch straight porn and fuck the same sex all your life you're gay not straight. So if you watch nothing but gay porn and fuck the opposite sex all your life you're hetro. Deal with it
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/sex/TF2D…
http://www.jackinworld.com/whats-your-se…
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/sex/TF2D…
http://www.jackinworld.com/whats-your-se…