@202, no one is talking about all men or even most men. Believe it or not, it's not all about dudes. The only people who think most men are sexist douchebags are other male sexist douchebags. Men (and women) who are solid in their dignity are usually aware that we aren't talking about all men when bemoan this catcalling shit. Ever notice, men who aren't sexist douchebags never have the NEED to insert themselves into women's criticisms of sexist douchebags?

No, it's always some attention-starved dude-bro who doesn't understand concepts like boundaries and basic human decorum who barges in all puffed up to crow some crock of shit like, "As a man, here is how and why women get it all wrong about the ubiquitous street harassment that pervades your lives." This is followed by them frantically replying to every post in the thread, eagerly mansplaining to us all the shit they learned on 4chan last week about gender dynamics.

Then they'll begin to writhe in a fit of frothy faux-victimhood because of the uppity wimminz. Women are OVER-SENSITIVE, while also NOT SENSITIVE ENOUGH to the plight of menz! Halp! Women have the effrontery to express displeasure at the disgusting intrusions men put upon them!

Worse, you'll even see some of these chucklefucks tell us how WOMEN are sexist because we said the opinion of some stranger (99% of the time a MAN) regarding our tits is none of our fucking business. Asking invasive dudes to get a clue about basic human decency is "misandry" (whatever the fuck that social-pseudoscientific bullshit term even means.)

The point is, it's really not women's problem or concern if your little dude-bro feelings get hurt when we speak out against the rampant harassment we get on the street. In fact, your feelings are about the least relevant aspect of our conversation, or any conversation women are having about the misogyny they face. You don't know shit about what we're dealing with so listening, not TALKING, ought to be your thing at present.
@207: Oh yeah, The M won't be listening to the substance of your post. He'll focus on the fact that he personally is gay, sooooo everything you've said is irrelevant. Oh and he'll probably call you some names, and then Unbrainwashed will back him up by asking you about your tits. Good times.

@208: I don't know? The picture is on my phone, and I haven't gotten it on to my computer yet, so I'm not sure how to post it here. Sorry. But thanks for asking! It was at the the show they did for gay marriage with Dan at the Neptune. We got to see The Tech Savvy At Risk Youth too.

"A high proportion of American men are assholes."

"there are a lot of men who say NOTHING when OTHER men say horrible, derogatory things about women. They shrug or take a swig of their beer"

"In the words of the old joke: men need to learn to treat women as if they were equal human beings."

"You'll have no luck, because in his mind at least ( as in the case of so many men) he knows better than we do what we go through every day."

"Any guys care to answer this question: why are men committing mass shootings and violence and sexual violence against women, children and other men on such an overwhelming scale?"

"the difference is that men are pigs."

But did enjoy the volume at which you worked through your boilerplate.
Clara T:
Quote 1and 6 were made by men. 6 by Unbrainwashed who may just have been projecting. I am the source of quote 4, and I stand by it. Many men do think that they know better than women what we go through every day. But note! I said many, not all, because I agree with you. Tarring all men with the same brush is unfair. But indeed, those men of good will need to do more than just rest on their laurels. Standing by and saying nothing, either in life or on line reinforces in the mind of those men who are cat calling and what have you, the idea that what they are doing is ok.

I think the heathen @ 136 put it well:

If your friend behaves like this, and you don’t smack him in the back of the head and tell him he’s being a douche, you’re a douche by proxy.

The fact that so many men have participated in this thread and with the exception of of only The Misanthrope and Unbrainwashed have been nether douches nor douches by proxy, is so heartening don't you think? It certainly gives me hope.
My partner—who is male, tall, athletic, "manly," etc—has a story about being aggressively groped by some drunk motherfucker as he was leaving a mens room. He says he was so stunned, so caught off guard, so appalled and, yes, so violated, that he just kind of wandered out in complete shock. Of course, he stewed for weeks, imagining all the things he would do and say to this guy if only he could go back and do it over. Even telling the story to me, 15 years later, he got red in the face and agitated, still so violated and infuriated about it after all these years.

He was telling me this because I came home in tears after—again, again, again—some motherfucker on the sidewalk grabbed me—HARD—between my legs as I stood straddling my bike waiting for a light. Again, I was so stunned, so violated, so enraged, I couldn't react until he was some 20 feet away, and then he turned around laughing at my "fuck you fucking motherfucker!" and gave me the finger.

I am in complete awe and respect of women (and men) who can come up with the perfect comeback in times like these. But other than the time I was dragged off my bicycle and literally had to fight for my bike (in the middle of downtown traffic, in broad daylight, with no one moving to help), I have never been able to find satisfying words when I'm verbally or physically assaulted. And, it sounds lame, but honestly, who wants to constantly walk around in a rage, prepped for the annual occasion when some fucker ruins your week?

All of this reminds me of a business trip to Manhattan 20 years ago. (Yep, I'm an old coot, which explains everything.)

So there I was, minding my own business at or near the corner of 41st and Lex or so, looking for a corner grocery store still open so I could get a sandwich, chips, and a beer to go. I had chosen to stay in an apartment hotel, trading off room service for extra space. I was only in the city for a day or two, and figured I could easily get my food in the neighorhood rather than suffer the apodment conditions of the typical cramped full service places like the Hyatt at Grand Central.

Anyway, I'm standing there getting my bearings and looking for a storefront, when a nice looking blonde gal in a fur coat comes strolling up. She catches my eye, smiles, and says, "Sixty dollars for a blowjob and a hundred for a good fuck."

I was kinda sorta stunned. I am a man and therefore a pig, so I rarely object to either a blowjob or a good fuck. But I tired from the day and the flight, really wanting only to grab some food and head back to the room and my TV. The crudeness of the proposition was a sharp contrast to the woman's classy exterior. I'm sure if I'd had more time, I'd have seen all of her rough edges and needle tracks. But my head was elsewhere and it happened in an instant, so it threw me off balance.

But not for long. I collected my thoughts.

"Honey," I said, "your mouth would look great wrapped around a stiff dick, but it's not gonna be mine. I do appreciate the offer, but you'll have to excuse me because I'm looking for some dinner." And then I walked away.

Poor sensitive souls here. If some jerk says "Nice tits," the appropriate response is something along the lines of, "Quit drooling and brush your teeth, you pathetic loser."

And #212, your manly boyfriend should have given him a hard shove against the wall, and said, "Fuck off, asshole."
But #212, I do sympathize a lot with you on the bicycle groping thing. I'd ordinarily say you should've whipped out your Ka-Bar knife and cut his hand off, but it's a little much to expect anyone to carry a Ka-Bar, or to be that quick on the uptake.
Oh good. 213 comments that claim you should be flattered by harassment. I guess it's a good thing that people who the the Stranger are so liberal. Haha, just kidding. Misanthrope should be "misogynist" but I guess it's progress that he at least recognizes women are people.
Unbrainwashed loves that story. He tells it all the time.
There's something you love twice as much as my story, Lissa.
There he blows! Old Faithful Unbrainwashed!
Be sure to check out the gift shop to learn more about this natural wonder of Slog.
People who have more power - by dint of their physical strength, societally-conferred racial advantages, or economic clout - often have difficulty recognizing the pervasiveness of that power. For those of us on the other side of that equation (and who have to deal with the possibility of violence on a daily basis), our wariness comes from hard experience. Escalation from "compliment" to violence can and does happen in a heartbeat.
You know what I think of men who catcall? I think a large percentage of them are posturing for the sake of other men. They know it won't get them pussy. Never has, never will. Won't even get them a friendly smile. If they wanted that, they'd say, "Hi, nice day, isn't it?" not comment on a stranger's body parts. No, what these halfwit douchenozzles are is exactly like the guy who frantically pumps before he goes into the locker room so that other men won't snicker at him for his pathetically tiny penis.

There are ways to engage in a friendly manner with strangers, even in Seattle. Commenting on their appearance is not an appropriate way to do so. One should reserve that sort of compliment for a person one actually knows. It's intimidating. It's meant to be intimidating. It's meant to show the other dudebros (206, 207, I love you, by the way) how tough you are. It's childish, it's pathetic, it's rude, and decent guys can definitely help stop it by telling the twatwaffles they're being dicks. (One of my favorite phrases to hear is, "Fuck off and leave that woman alone!")
@198: You say that it's wrong for women to cat call men. As a straight guy, I've been cat called by women once or twice in my life, depending on how exactly you define cat calling, and both were positive experiences that I'll treasure to the end of my days. You're making the same mistake that I'd be making if I thought "I like being cat called, so I'll cat call women." It's not a symmetric situation.
I don't think objectifying men is right. You are people, and I think one should treat people like people and not yell shit at them on the street. I'm glad for you that what you experienced was positive for you, and you're right it isn't a symmetrical dynamic. You were flattered, not terrorized, but that doesn't make what happened to you any less rude. Frankly, I'm not really sure what your point is. You want more women to cat call men?

I personally feel that catcalling some random dude is kinda rude. I've never done it. (BTW, am bi, have never catcalled a woman either.) It's not classy.

I don't think that women should get a free pass on rude street behavior. But the fact is, most men aren't gonna have the same experience if catcalling happens to them. Your *average* sized man is gonna have a ton of physical power & size over your *average* sized woman. The power dynamic is very skewed. There's not the same implicit issues of control or physical violence maybe happening.

I know most of my guy pals understand this, as I don't hang out w/ too many knuckle-draggers. But it's disappointing to see how stubborn someone can be when hanging onto their perceptions, inflexible from the anecdotes & input of *how many* different women..? Y'know, women? The ones this happens to, all the time?
It took me a full hour to read these comments. I laughed, I cried, I cheered, I cringed, I hated on various ideologies and power dynamics. Everything has been stated, rephrased, argued, and retired. Well done, Sloggers. Well done.

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