How did LWIR's roommate miss the textbook play for hooking up with a roomie?

1. Get drunk together.
2. Make your move.
3. If you get turned down, attribute it to the alcohol and NEVER DO THAT SHIT AGAIN.

*sigh*. It's also possible that the older roomie is counting on younger roomie's fear of being homeless, not just his consideration.

LWIR --Don't wait. Just move out.

Skip everything else and read only the last four words of Dans' reply.

He offered you housing under what was pretty clearly false pretenses and now wants to guilt you into something you've made it clear you don't want to do.

Get the hell away from someone who thinks this kind of pressure is OK. It will only get worse, and wierder. Even a borrowed home should be a refuge, and this guy's place clearly isn't one.

I agree. He's going to play the "you owe me this much (hugs, kisses, cuddles, wild sex, whatever) for taking you in" soon. He's not your friend. Find one of the two other folks you could have moved in with, explain the situation and move. You neither need nor deserve this shit.

Despite his previous kindness, your roommate is an asshole. And an asshole is an asshole is an asshole. Your polite deflection of his advances is an obvious sign of your discomfort, and his blatant disregard of your boundaries is bullshit. And bullshit is bullshit is bullshit. Move out yesterday.

Move out when you can, but in the meantime, get a lock on your door and lock the bathroom door when you're in there.

Also, for those who are interested, the "Insane Demands" LW just posted in that thread, and I have to eat my words:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

Are you sure you're not female? Because this shit is a big part of the reason young women are hesitant to move in with opposite-sex roommates they don't know well - it's pretty classic user behavior, and all too often it ends up in rape. (Or "almost rape" or "maybe was rape but it was kinda my fault because I was too drunk/high to say no effectively" or "I just quit fighting him off after a while because I was sick of the pestering" - in other words, rape.)

Step one is to tell him to back the hell off, that his creeping on you is NOT cool and you're not okay with it. Step two is to move out ASAP. Step three is to warn other potential roommates in your social circle about what a dick this guy is being.

It's a difficult situation and I think older guy is being a twat.

My advice would be to move when you can, but until then either speak up or if you're afraid, do the following. Every time he starts a conversation, hints, moves over or whatever, just get up and go to your room. Spend some time there and return. He starts up, you leave. Either he gets the message or you eventually speak up.

"Other than that he is cool"

This guy is taking advantage of the LW and doing so from a position of greater power, which makes it even more assholish. Clearly he was not motivated by compassion, but by his own lust, untempered by any moral compunction against taking advantage of the vulnerable. LW should move out as soon as he can afford to and should speak plainly and openly now, unless getting himself thrown out would make him homeless and that seems worse to him than continuing unwanted advances which may escalate into sexual assault.

If LW is worried about being homeless, I can understand his reticence, but otherwise, shy or not, he has to learn to be direct when it is warranted, as here. He is an adult, and ought to be expressing himself with adult forthrightness and clarity.

I have to say as soon as 40s guy said LW "Didn't even need to pay first month's rent" I knew where this letter was going.

Forget the "other than that he's cool, we like the same things, and have similar personalities" bullshit. However pleasant he may be to hang out with, he is not a nice person. He is the spider, the apartment is the web, and you, tiger, are the fly. Sparing the feelings of such a man does not make you a nice or good person. If you want to be a good man, start hanging with good men. Not manipulative creepy abusers of power.

Ick.
What's with "cuddling" with a platonic friend with the exception of an Andes plane crash situation?
This guy is an ass. Been there. Done that. He will never stop until you move out. The conversation does not exist that will fix this situation.

So a 40ish guy offers a room to a 20ish guy rent free.

What part of there is nothing free in life isn't clear? If the young guy didn't understand the rent was his ass he is naive as shit.

The bullshit I see is the young guy pretending to not want to hurt his feelings. I call bullshit. The unemployed broke taker knows damned well when he makes it clear he is out on his ass.

The only choice I see is if he'd rather put out or get out.

Gross. In twenty years, when he's forty-ish, our letter writer will look back on this and fully understand just how deeply exploitative this "roommate" is being. Son, he's preying on your youth and your reticence. Find a way to safety now.

Ew.

Though, I have to ask LW, did you not know he was a lecherous egomaniac who wanted to fuck you before you moved in?

If this came out of the blue, ok. But if you knew he wanted your ass before moving in, then you need to man up and either tell him to fuck off or move the fuck out.

@16 I would have to agree. If he had multiple options but moved in with the guy that offered him free rent, I'm hesitant to say he didn't know why the option was put on the table.

Maybe he thought it would go away? Even though the cute guy he had a crush on moved in with him and was around him always.

Moving out would be the nice thing to do as this guy clearly has a crush on him and I'm thinking the LW knew that before moving in.

@14: Just the first month's rent was free. And this exploitative asshole was supposed to be his friend. And, besides, not wanting to be a fucking prostitute does not a "taker" make.

Ya know, the fact that this guy wants to fuck you so bad does afford you a certain amount of power to mess with him, and he definitely deserves to be messed with.

For example, you could tell him you'll consider sex only if he loses 10 pounds. If he manages to do that, tell him "No, I distinctly said 20 pounds - your aging brain must be remembering things incorrectly." If he manages that, apologize and tell him he looks awful, and that he's way too skinny for you to have sex with now.

Or, if he's uncut, tell him you'll definitely fuck him if he get's himself circumcised. Then move out a week before he recovers from surgery.

I hope for the LW's sake their personalities aren't that similar, lest Mr Savage or his successor receive the same letter from the other side in a couple of decades.

I'm willing to give someone with a serious injury the benefit of the doubt for the most part, and shall only object to his manner of referring to his off-the-beaten-path liaisons with older men (as I am on a kick to retire the L word, I shall not use the G word - although Wimbledon is almost upon us), which makes him come across as if he did the two or three he found attractive SUCH a big FAVOUR - if, of course, the phrasing in relation to those encounters was actually his *cough cough*. I'll hope for everyone's sake that the older men so unceremoniously treated went in for that sort of encounter.

I don't think it's entirely suspect that the guy offered a month free. For all we know he didn't usually have a roomie, didn't really need one and the LW thought that he was being nice. When you are worn out with medical stuff, I can say from personal experience your first thought is "finally, life is giving me a break" not "and what's in it for you." ESPECIALLY when you are younger.

The guy needs to pack and run.

I would have led with "MOVE THE HECK OUT," actually. Unless this older guy is so besotted that he's blinded by what I'll generously call hope, then he likes that he's making this guy uncomfortable and the LW is right that he is likely to escalate his creepy behavior.

While I agree with the consensus that the roommate is a jackass and the LW should move asap, I want to speak up as someone who did, in fact, spend a lot of time cuddling non-sexually with my roommate. I'm straight, he's gay, we cuddled and watched TV, it was awesome. So yeah, it happens. But not in the LW's case.

Oh for God's sake. Just put out or get out. It's as simple as that. A twentysomething shouldn't need to write a god damn letter to figure that out. What are we teaching in the public schools these days?

Jezuz, young people. Don't your parents teach you anything? "Use your words," is high on the list of useful phrases. My nephews learned this when they were, like, four.

This older guy is being an asshole. If I'm feeling generous, I might grant the possibility that he is unaware he's being an asshole. Regardless, he can't read minds. The only way he's going to know you are uncomfortable with his asshole advances is to use your words. You have to tell him. You can sugar coat it and try and be nice about it, but you have to at least be direct enough that he knows he has to stop, and that you really seriously are absolutely not going to fuck him. Your hints are inadequate. They succeed in nothing more than a delay because you aren't telling him 'no', you are telling him not just now because I'm recovering, which leads him to think that if he keeps on pressuring you, you'll give in eventually. If you drop hints, and he doesn't take the hint, then your hint is not enough. You must be more direct. Nice, but direct. Leave no doubt that you are not interested in having sex with him.

This guy shouldn't be living on his own. He needs to be living in his mommy's basement. His problem is an easy one to solve. You say, "I'm not sexually attracted to you. Thank you, though," and if the roommate doesn't stop harassing him (because that's what he's doing) then he should move. Why the fuck does someone in their late 20s need to be told this common sense shit? No wonder his boyfriend of 6 years dumped him. He's an idiot.

Unpopular point of view in 3..2...1:

Cool guy in his forties knows and likes attractive guy in his 20s. Word is young guy has been known to dig older guys. Mr. Old offers his spare room to Mr. Young because he'd genuinely like to help him out...AND because hey, they're both single gay men, have things in common, like each other..who knows could be interesting. And he quite reasonably assumes since Mr. Young is an adult, he's mature enough to speak up and tell him directly if the sexy flirty talk is not welcome. There are ways to do this without being blistering too.

Sorry, LWIR, but you're going to have to speak up for yourself. You should probably move out immediately, because it is unlikely to be anything but awkward once you tell this guy unequivocally that you're not interested. Don't say "not now," or "I'm not ready," because both those statements suggest that at some point all systems are go.

Maybe you could move in with one of the other two people who were offering, or maybe you've saved enough since you've been in this guy's apartment, rent-free, to cough up a first month's rent and security deposit. Or maybe you could borrow that from a family member.

But really, if you are in your late 20s and you haven't learned how to stand up for yourself, consider this a timely lesson.

Here's your script. It's probably better to say it aloud in person, but if that's too difficult, write it in a letter and give it to him but then you need to make sure he sees it:

"You know, Lloyd, I'm so grateful that you gave me a place to live when I was in a jam, but I have to tell you that I'm not interested in having any kind of sexual relationship with you. I am afraid I may have misled you, and I want to be clear that I just don't feel that kind of attraction for you. Can we just be roommates, please? If we can't, I'll find a new place to live."

Then, as EricaP suggested, lock your bedroom door and the bathroom door when you're in there.

I agree with Catalina- put out or get out. When a guy (any age) creeps you out, a grown-up leaves the situation or stands up for himself. Brother.

I don't disagree with the general direction here at all. Tell the dude to stop and state your case.

But..."ancient" roommate? You can make your point without making those of us in our late 40s feel like shit, Dan. And last I looked, you weren't all that young yourself.

This whole thing is completely sexist. If the letter-writer was a woman and the 40-year-old was straight, we'd all be laughing at her idiocy. How is this any different?

In addition to the advice to tell the guy off and get out, I think LWIR should also look into his rights as a renter or roommate in case this shithead tries to throw him out. In a number of states, even if there's no formal lease agreement and you're paying off the books (mostly intended for college students who might need looser rent agreements), you can't be simply thrown out without notice. But LWIR should be aware of that.

@14/32: It's hardly unheard of for platonic friends to help each other out, including "Look, you can stay with me/us while you get on your feet and find a place after your break up. No rent for the first month, nominal after, so you can get out on your own sooner. No biggie."

As for gender/orientation swaps, the advice is the same in all cases. People might be a little more dismissive of a straight guy "dependent" on his straight female friend because that's not the way society expects that power dynamic to go, but it's a straightforward case of economic power imbalance and a nonconfrontational personality hoping that thinking the message hard will work.

@32: I recognized this situation for what it is because I hate to say it but most of us women have been asked to pay for something with our attention or sexuality before. It's not always an unwelcome transaction. But it tends to play out like this. I haven't seen this happen a lot in guyland, and so I'm cutting this guy some slack in that this may be the first time he's run into it.

For that matter, if he were a straight woman, there would still have been a first time to run into it. Is it really the best thing to make fun of someone in a vulnerable position for not being as wise as they will eventually be?

I've been in the exact same situation. A relationship ended while I was in college and I moved in with a friend I was not attracted to. Unfortunately, there is no way to spare your roomie's feelings. You can try your best, but his feelings are going to be hurt. Rejection hurts. The only thing you can do is be as gentle as possible while also being direct.

What you are doing now is not helping. By telling him you aren't ready to be with anyone, you are giving him the mistaken impression that when you are ready he might have a shot. This will only lead to anger on his part when you finally are direct with him, as he might feel you have been leading him on a bit, which you kind of have.

In my experience, continuing to live with this friend is a bad idea. All of the time spent together, the late night talks, the shared meals, it's only going to make your friend feel the sexual and romantic rejection more.

@35 if anything, I think a guy, being a guy, should have more easily recognized this situation for what it is. He has a home team advantage.

@34, not platonic friends with that age difference.

@37:
I have male platonic friends who are 20 years older than I am. Why can't that be possible?

What the fuck gay man moves in with a gay man twice his age at a "too good to be true" price and DOESN'T understand that "considerations" are expected?

I'm not saying you need to give it up, LW. Honestly, if you don't want to have sex with him then you shouldn't, and you should move out ASAP. But did you really not realize that this guy wanted to sleep with you before you moved in with him?

@39, I don't know, some people trust their friends not to take advantage of them.

For the most part, the advice here is right on. Have a stern talk with this guy, and then give a call to one of those other people you considered moving in with & find a better living situation.

Ms Marrena - I shall refrain from commenting about "home team advantage" (because of course all gay men are all exactly alike, perhaps?) and ask, in a tone reminiscent of Mr Justice Wargrave inquiring if Mr Lombard asserts that women are immune to homicidal mania, whether you intend to claim that no woman ever offered similar accommodation to another woman with similar motivation (perhaps because you buy into Mr Savage's Creed equating All Men to Dogs [rather topical today of all days] - frankly, Miss Hinchcliff in A Murder is Announced did that rather better than Mr Savage has ever done?).

And I at least am not coddling the LW or underplaying his shortcomings.

@32 I would not be laughing at the LW if the gender was reversed and I find it downright disturbing that you think that do that is A-OK reaction to the situation.

But then it's victim-blamey as hell to act as if LWIR fault for actually trusting his friend and not reading his mind and realizing he wanted to fuck him.

@32
That's some serious bullshit. This dude would be a predatory douchenozzle regardless of the gender of the young roommate. I have a female friend who lived in a similar situation with a significantly older divorced dude for several years. It was just fine. The difference: he was an actual friend, not a piece of shit, harassing, predator.

@41: marry me!

@42: yeah. In the same way it's "victim-blamey as hell" to act as if a pedestrian who drunkenly and obliviously crosses a dark street at night on a blind corner wearing dark clothing is at fault for getting hit by a car coming round the corner at the posted speed limit.

@37/@38 I have female platonic friends who are 20 years younger than me.

@44 What? How is trusting someone to be a decent human being exactly the same as walking into the street drunk? It's not the LW fault this guy waited until he was dependent on him to reveal his inner creeper?

I mean unless the guy was giving off red flags before nothing in the letter indicates that LWIR was wrong to trust him.

thanks for specifying "more than a day or two." it's always hard to know what an appropriate amount of time is to adjust or vent before it starts to enter the realm of emotional blackmail etc.

It is MUCH easier to use the word "boundaries" than to come right out and say "Dude, I would rather fuck a Wookiee." For example, you might say "I need to keep the boundaries clear between us. I want us to only be roommates. Are you okay with that? Thanks." I've used variations on that line for years, and it has always worked extremely well with no hurt feelings involved. Hell, people have used it on me and I haven't felt hurt.

@44, That's a poor analogy. If you really think that trusting your friends to not be assholes and take advantage of you when you're down is equivalent to walking drunk into traffic at night, then you really need to find some new friends.

The situation itself gives off red flags that should have given this guy pause. It's not broadly about "trusting someone to be a decent human being" or "trusting your friends not to be assholes". It's about recognizing, as many people have in this thread, that an unusually generous offer of a place to stay (with an offer of the first month being rent-free) by significantly older gay guy to a young and vulnerable one bears a risk of precisely this thing happening. As a matter of risk management, it is a bad choice. It may be more or less risky as to the separate consequences that adhere under each situation than drunkenly wandering into the street in dark clothing on a blind curve late at night, sure. I suspect that it is more risky.

This does not remove any moral culpability from the creepy dude. What it does say is that the young man is a morale risk - he chose this situation over others available when in all likelihood (although we cannot know for sure) this was the least desirable alternative for precisely the reason that there was a not statistically insignificant chance that what did happen would.

Look at other commenters who have also said he should have known what was up before moving in. We're not all jaded world-weary cynics. We are realists with some experience of the world. This guy's story is not unique.

@50, Your analogy is such shit because the person driving the car would not be morally culpable for hitting someone who suddenly stumbles in front of their car. You are engaging in victim blaming, and are probably the kind of asshole who says things like, "I'm not saying she deserved to get raped, the rapist is definitely wrong, but what kind of idiot gets drunk, lets a guy friend offer to use his bed to crash, and is then surprised when he ends up raping her?"

@51 Beneath the rudeness, you do have a potentially legitimate point that in the LW's roommate was acting with intent and the motorist would not be. I considered that when I made the analogy, but since my analogy was not based on the moral culpability of the injuring party, but rather on the knowing assumption of unnecessary risk, I considered it valid regardless of that difference. You may disagree. You might consider a better analogy one in which the drunk guy is walking home and has three options: call a cab, walk a longer distance on a busy street, or take a shortcut across a dark park where there has been a rash of late-night robberies and he chooses the latter and gets robbed. Or the woman looking for a roommate who has a choice between an earnest fundie girl, a pot smoking woman on disability with two cats, and a guy fresh from prerelease for sexual assault crimes and she chooses the latter and gets sexually assaulted. People do make such stupid choices. And if calling them to task for such choices makes me a victim blamer, I endorse the label. But it doesn't. All I am doing is reinforcing the societal ideal that people should behave prudently.

I am not the kind of asshole who says what you have suggested, I am a different kind of asshole entirely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivtZoAS0…

@52 the problem with your examples is that the people in them have reasons to not walk down the street, or to not trust the new roommate. We have no idea if this is the case with LWIR.

Sure it's possible the guy was giving off red flags like a red flag giving machine. It's also possible that he never expressed the slightest romantic or sexual attraction to LWIR until he was under his roof.

Heck haven't we all seen something like this before? The boyfriend who seems so nice until you move in and then he gets controlling and possessive. The friend you though you could trust with you mother who just wouldn't leave the drunk girl alone?

I agree dude needs to move out but what I don't agree with is that this situation is somehow his fault.