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(prior to that, we all just read her alone & smiling)
our son came home from college just in time for a week long follow of the rape joke discussion: from the tv debate to Lindy's follow up post about the rape threats. many points that our son did not quite "agree" with me about became clearer & clearer to him as Lindy wrote... and sadly, through the horrifying comments.
Lindy IS BRAVE and Lindy IS HILARIOUS. But most of all...and I say this in all seriousness... LINDY IS A HERO.
Violent insulting comments on the internet make me sick but the only way to deal with it is to expose it and spit in its eye. Their eyes. . . because real supposed humans, many of them human men, are the posters of that ignorant arrogant shit.
Anyway, If you check the comments under her article, there are equally rabid jezebelers posting things like 'burn them all.' So... you know... let's not pretend that she's merely the victim here. Lindy's in control of this at each step. She put herself out there in the meat grinder, and she's betting her career that it'll pay off.
In other words, just more fuel for the outrage machine. Trolls are doing to her what she wants people to do to anyone who fails to censor themselves according to her own puritan standard. The more conflict she can stoke, the more hits she gets, and thus more Gawker-bux.
This backlash has more to do with the fact that she's wrong than 'silencing' her. She was rebutted effectively on the show, then more or less destroyed by writers online, after the show. All she's got now is the shared victim complex of her readers. Hence what she's doing now -- making her idiotic opinion a rallying cry for oppressed upper middle class, over-educated white girls with a victim complex.
Ride it to the bank, Lindy.
Who is making all these rape jokes?
And I do not mean the antichrist.
It would seem there would be more, given the level of outrage.
Not trying to diminish what she is saying, but it seems there's a disconnect between real-world examples is all.
More on topic: I heart Lindy. I read just about everything she writes, even if I'm not interested in what she's writing about, because I know I'll at least get a few chuckles.
Though really, the man ought to be able to use google or click on a link without some one having to hold his hand.
Lindy West. Hero.
Tosh is terrible. Agreed.
Lindy is hella funny, smart and a great writer, but her argument needs more examples than just Tosh.
Any other contemporary comedians out there making rape jokes? Amy Schumer and Sarah Silverman are the two I can think of off hand.
Enlighten me.
No one should have to read that much trolling, sweetie. Try to edit a little bit.
(The actual gap between similar workers--the gap that remains once you control for relevant factors--that *may* be due to discrimination, is 3.6%. http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/p…)
Pretty much the same thing that happened to Sarkeesian and all that sweet cash money she got.
@29 & 30: Woosh!
@27: Jesus click in the links in the article already! And then click on the links in those articles. Then google comedians who tell rape jokes. Then google why it's ok for black comics to say the n word but less so for white comics and extrapolate how that paradigm might apply to women making rape jokes vs men making jokes about raping women.
This is all the hand holding I am going to do for you.
People like the stuff you write too! People like me. I miss Lindy on here as much as the next non-men's rights/non-dipshit libertarian, but I'm really glad The Stranger has writers like you in her stead. Thanks for posting this and all the work you do!
My point: Ms. West could have included more than just Tosh in her article. She didn't. All I did was ask for more examples.
Again, she is fighting the good fight and I side with her. Conversation is good.
You should cease merely identifying yourself as a gay man when you post in the future and qualify yourself as a "gay narcissist". As such, you speak for very few human beings period.
Dumbass.
I took Lindy's point to be that certain jokes are okay, but other jokes are just trying to diminish what is a serious crime and/or make fun of the victim. Definitely a credit to her that she isn't saying it's all jokes and this subject cannot be spoken about. Fighting Internet commentators with the thought that something might improve seems quixotic, but she is doing something important getting this dialogue going at this time.
Lindy, truly, you are totally fucking awesome and don't let anyone tell you anything different.
That is good that you have someone to look up to professionally, but I caution anyone to think that their position is more "right" or "correct" simply because it draws forth opposition, however despicable.
Maybe too much nuance for Slog...
"As a self-involved douchebag (who just happens to be gay), I'm bored with women (and anybody else) getting more attention than I. So much so that I conflate sexual harassment with positive reinforcement, either to shock the easily shocked or because I'm just that fucked up. I am terminally bored and terminally boring. WHERE IS MY THERAPIST?"
@43: Theodore, though indeed it is an ill wind that blows nobody good, framing the unintended consequences of Lindy's posts as her actual Machiavellian goal (a la TortoiseTurtle) is obtuse.
If you were just saying "wow look how that turned out! Interesting!" then I apologize for tarring you with that brush.
Lindy is doing awesome work.
I for one don't want to rape ANY woman, and not because there aren't women out there that I find sexually attractive (and Lindy is high on that list). If on the other hand her boyfriend weren't looking, and my wife weren't looking and she were to pass me by on the street, give me a wink and a nod and invite me for coffee-and-you-know; well I can think of many worse things.
Haters are stupid and Lindy is no troll. She doesn't need to name comics or specifics - she spends enough time in that world to have seen and heard plenty as have many other folks. Her original article wasn't combative, it was her usual ascerbic mixed with sharp witted observation about what is commonly known in feminism as "rape culture", and it is out there not in comedy clubs but on our own streets (see Anna and Cienna's pieces on street harassment).
At any rate, I hope this particular kerfuffle helps make Lindy more famous and extremely rich.
I just wish people wouldn't conflate sincerity with accuracy. Lindy's assertion is that "rape jokes" contribute to young men not thinking rape is a serious offense. Might be true, might not be true, who can tell, apparently it's all part of a vast abstract unfalsifiable idea called "rape culture" that is supported by blogging about it, and then pointing to random Internet comments and saying "SEE, PROOF." Does it have any effect on actual instances of rape, the actual sentiments of young men, or impact the survivors of rapes? The answer I see from many otherwise well-meaning people is apparently "WHO CARES."
That makes me a sad panda, because this is serious shit here. And yes, at the same time, rape jokes are in bad taste, and threats are still fucked up and no one deserves that.
"in general, she's kick ass, smart and hilarious-- you should look up some of her articles on jezebel, reading her makes you angry and happy and hopeful and laugh so hard you'll snort"
and
"she's in a different genre, but i enjoy her almost as much as/ possibly more than michelle tea...
can't express my love for her more"
Lindy West is one of my heroines.
There's a lot of stupid in this world, and nothing brings it out on the internet more than some smart person calling it stupid. I'm really sorry that Lindy has to put up with all that abuse aimed her way, but I'm glad that she's taken it public, so we can all be sad about, and cognizant of, the level of stupidity that generates all that hateful noise.
@59: While Lindy's point about the traumatizing effect anti-victim rape jokes can have on rape survivors is proven (in the sense that there are such people in the world and some have said so), the question of whether and how much jokes affect the broader culture (and incidence of rape) is more of a judgment call for most people.
If you genuinely do know of research that sheds light on that question, it wouldn't hurt to share it. In the meantime, I'd wager most people are relying on experience and intuition. I mean, those boys in Steubenville clearly had a problem with understanding that rape isn't something to laugh at. It would be nice if our culture taught that lesson a little better.
Lindy's singling out comics probably has more to do with her immersion in (and love for) comedy as opposed to a belief that comics are the root cause rape culture. They're just one item on a long list and quite possibly nowhere near the top.
I liked Lindy's writing before (and ya know she's easy on the eyes as well), but at this point she made a leap (challenging Doghitter Dan's continuous anti-fat hypocritical views) from interesting writer to outright Goddess.
This is not hero worship (though Lindy is and hopefully will continue to be recognized to be) but a genuine admiration for an individual who comes along rarely. She's the genuine article.
So thanks, Lindy. Keep on doing what you're doing. I will follow you to the end of my days (not TOO creepy, sorry). People I am friends with, am intimate with, and even vaguely acquainted with will continue to be made aware of your genius.
My big dream for you: BECOME THE ANTI-ANNE COULTER!!!!
West is just doing her thing, I do not think she is troll baiting at all, and it is funny that the trolls do not even realize they are helping her in the end. I am happy to see she is not backing down like some people do. Not that I can blame them, I have no idea what it is like to have people threaten to rape and kill you.
It is like the Sarkeesian thing where she was getting a decent amount of kickstarter funding until the trolls came around and suddenly she had this ridiculous amount of money. I am not saying she could not have gotten funding without the trolls, but it is impossible to deny that the trolls influenced people to give her more money out of sympathy/solidarity/whatever.
And lastly, showcasing the worst comments aimed at one person doesn't invalidate the argument that LOTS OF ABUSE IS HEAPED UPON ANYONE who dares to point out rape culture. But if you think that rape is "too serious" to talk about in the absence of quantifiable data on how the words and messages we receive from the world around us impact our thoughts and behaviors, it's not because you care about rape. It's because you care about not talking about rape.
Not that it really matters, but they list about a half-dozen in this article for example:
http://m.guardiannews.com/lifeandstyle/2…
Heres the deal: Comedians (who are mostly male) have been making sexist jokes since the dawn of time ("Take my wife...please!"). It's their bread and butter. And many people like and relate to those jokes. In the last several years, as straight women have entered successfully into comedy, rape jokes have become more and more common. Often times these are not very well known comedians who no one takes very seriously. (However, when someone like Daniel Tosh , who is popular enough to have his own TV show, (achieving the Mt. Everest of comedy) it matters more because then its not fringe or some wacko, it's mainstream. Scary for a lady, as you can imagine.
And the way he did it! So casual, like a drive-by shooting.That I think was the big deal. He didn't carefully construct anything, acknowledging the challenge of the material. No, breezily assaulted someone violently in front of a giant group of people with the effortless air of a sociopath. It was breathtaking.
Then, a powerful well-respected comedian like Louis CK comes to his aid (HIS aid!) Meanwhile, the woman is just supposed to accept that she has no recourse. Well, her recourse is to be painted as a humorless shrew who hates free speec, which isn't true. Please, she was just trying to have a nice, fun evening but instead had to be reminded that she could be a victim of violent sexual crime anytime with full support of the society around her. What a nightmare.
Rape is not some rare thing. It's unbelievably common. And that's where the insult to injury comes in. Despite everyone agreeing that rape is bad, women get raped by men all the time. It's a tragedy. The least (least!) men could do is not rub it in.