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Guys shouldn't go to gaybars without their boyfriends? Really? If that is what you personally think, I personally think you might want to see a therapist. Or grow up a bit before you sabotage a good relationship. Just saying.
You used 'cunt' in your podcast a few weeks ago (pro tip: you can only use 'cunt' in the British sense if you're ACTUALLY BRITISH. And even if you're using it in the so-called 'British sense', it *still* means vagina and it's *still* misogynist to use any permutation of 'vagina' as an insult).
Now you're using 'manpussy-whipped'. Putting 'man' in front of it doesn't absolve it, because 'man-whipped' doesn't make any sense (at least, not in this context). There were so many other words or phrases you could have used, why did you have to pick the one that denigrates women (and denigrates men by implying they're women)?
Please, Dan. You're one of the loudest voices for progressive, accepting sexuality. And when someone like you, with your credibility and your audience, uses terms for female genitalia as an insult, you're insulting all women. And you're quietly letting your audience, hopefully at least partially comprised of progressive, women-loving men, know that vaginas are still, on some level, icky and gross and a bad thing to be or have.
And, FWIW, I also think 'dick' and 'dickhead' need to be dropped, too.
I don't have any problem with calling someone an 'asshole.' Everyone has an asshole (except for rare medical cases). I don't mind 'douche', either, because a douche is something bad and harmful for the person using it.
Please post a complete list of all words and phrases I'm allowed to say.
All I can do is ask people to not use misogynist words like 'cunt' and hope they realize that using lady parts as insults is extremely misogynistic, and that being misogynist is bad.
Use whatever words you feel appropriate, I can't stop you. All I can do is think less of you.
Chill the fuck out or GDBTMF,A (Get dumped by)
Actually Dan, having the organist roll in the dough is how Anglicans consecrate their host. Strange but true.
R. Taylor@6: I'm just going to repost this comment from a few months ago. I do this as both support (for the principle) and explanation that you might be in the wrong company here on Slog- with Dan specifically:
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a gay man, and I don't like being called a faggot. I know there are millions of straight men who use the word and I actually believe them when they say they're not actually homophobic- but the word certainly is and I don't want to hear it. There are also many gay men who don't give a shit. Defer to the company you're in if you don't want to be confronted or embarrassed. Using words like "cunt" or "faggot" don't necessarily make you a bad person, but if you do you should anticipate being judged for it- like anything else that comes out of your mouth. So the swears-he's-queer-positive straight man who says "faggot" and the considers-himself-a-feminist grad student who says "cunt" really shouldn't bitch when they're "misunderstood". Of course you have every right to say whatever you want- and other people have the right to point out that you sound like an asshole.
P.S.
The LW is fucking insufferable. I was mumbling DTMFA under my breath mid-paragraph.
Which is why it was so shocking and hurtful, as a longtime fan of Dan Savage, to hear him use 'cunt' so flippantly. If he'd been saying something like 'You're gonna lick your lady's cunt like her life depends on it!' that would be one thing. I don't mind 'cunt' when it's used to refer to an actual lady part. But it was an insult, by someone I thought was on 'my side.'
I expect DTEGNRMAUSIA to be be the new acronym immediately or I'll hold my breath until I turn blue.
-- thought police
STOP USING FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS AND EXCRETORY ORGANS AS AN INSULT.
Oh, wait... Instead of demanding righteously that you obey my direct verbal orders, I will only hope that you realize you are extremely insulting & judgmental, and being insulting & judgmental is bad. Use whatever words you feel appropriate, I can't stop you. All I can do is think less of you.
Or something like that.
I'm just some asshole spouting off on the Internet, I have no power over Dan or anyone else here. Y'all want to continue using 'cunt' or 'pussy' as an insult, I can't stop you. I have apparently totally misjudged Dan and his fanbase. I thought I was coming into a progressive, sex-positive, woman-friendly space; not somewhere where people would defend their god-given right to denigrate women on sole count of their being women.
(and @22: Douches can disrupt the normal flora in a woman's vagina and leave her more open to yeast infections and the like. Or worse, if one douches like they used to and uses actual Lysol. It's nifty that you can do it daily and not suffer any ill effects, but a lot of women aren't so lucky and it's basically been advised women just wash their labia with regular old soap and water and not try to squirt anything up into the delicate bits, since the vagina does a pretty good job of cleaning itself).
HEY!
WORDS VS. INTENT.
If you are determined to be offended by a specific arrangement of letters without considering context or intent, then don't read anything. Anywhere. Ever.
There are no bad words. Words are combinations of phonemes that have no significance until there is collective agreement as to what those sounds in a particular combination mean.
As a black man, I don't get to determine that people do or don't get to use specific words that are offensive to me personally, particularly not in spaces or forums that I do not control (by specific right of ownership -- one of those First Amendment things), and it would be a waste of my energy to try anyway, because even if people don't use the specific words that offend me, they're still thinking them, so I wouldn't accomplish anything.
If you're around anyone who you know is prone to use words that offend you, by all means STAY AWAY FROM THEM (e.g. avoid the comments on most Huffington Post entries). Don't presume you have the right or obligation to place parameters on what other people's acceptable speech should be, because I sincerely doubt that other people making similar capricious proclamations and insisting on your compliance would be met with sincere appreciation.
You're damn lucky he isn't cheating on you already (assuming he's not). Until and unless you let go of whatever insecurities you have about yourself and your relationship (but mostly yourself), I believe, as do some posters above me, that your relationship is as good as over right now, and there's only the third-act formalities of breaking up left to do.
Lighten up and quit forcing your boyfriend to lie to you.
The reason that 'pussy-whipped' doesn't have a (common) term for the male controlling the female is because when a woman is being controlled and manipulated by her male partner, it's seen as what it is: abuse, and so not used in a good-naturedly ribbing manner. But men are not socially allowed to be seen as anything but domineering, so any sign of abuse is cause for derision and humor instead. It's kinda like how male rape is a joke, but female is not. So I'm not really sure the phrase is as sexist against women as you claim.
But more than that, you seem to take it as a personal affront that someone would use a term that yes, does have some vague sexist connotations. But really, you do know how much you're over-reacting, right? I mean, read what you've written: "I thought I was coming into a progressive, sex-positive, woman-friendly space; not somewhere where people would defend their god-given right to denigrate women on sole count of their being women." You're leveling this pretty harsh accusation against goddamn Slog. If you're accusing the most progressive alternative newspaper in one of the most progressive cities on Earth of being deliberately anti-woman, what the hell is pro-woman? And what kind of happy life are you leading if there's so much that you look down upon and take offense to?
Also, for the record, the Lysol douching was a birth control attempt in the days before the pill. It didn't work I don't think (you'd have to do it just before sex I imagine to have any efficacy) but maybe the stench of said lady bits once thrown off by industrial grade detergents was such that it repelled the hubby? It would have to be pretty strong as back then he'd never have his nose anywhere near there (if he were American anyway).
Such spaces exist, and they're very careful and considered. SLOG is not one of them, and it's kind of obvious. So any attempts to change Dan's language ought to be done in a less heavy-handed way, because nobody is breaking any agreed rules or commitments.
Anyway, why be personally hurt when sexist language is used in an open forum? I find it a very useful reminder of what hasn't changed. The language will change when people get used to treating women as equal, not the other way around.
Those saying that pointing this out is being over-sensitive and looking for offense are basically saying "What you're saying makes me uncomfortable and I think I'm the privilege-bearing entitled person here, so SHUT UP because I say so."
@33 - Congrats on successfully superimposing your own bullshit onto ALL those other comments! I especially liked how much of a cocky dickhead you were about it - I assume that was some clever irony on your part. You really busted their balls!
Instead of arguing about whether it is an insult towards women, perhaps recognizing it as being about people dismissing abusive behaviour towards men could allow for more productive conversation.
That said, I don't think "I would prefer not to hear these words, I consider them degrading" is a super controversial thought policey thing to say. It doesn't say much about the thickness of your skin if "I don't like that word" is what it takes to get underneath it.
Oh wait ... well, fuck.
This one sentence makes such a huge point.
I care much more if a person acts in such a way that shows they are misogynistic than if they say a word that could possibly be taken that way. Words are words. They only have the power you attribute to them. I think a person should be able to call someone a "pussy" or a "dick" without having to discuss why they felt the need to use that particular gender connotation. That's why I surround myself with people who believe in equality, but also don't talk about it like they have a stick up their ass.
It seems like people without thick skins get under your skin ... were you going for irony there?
Also: intent is not magical. (Google “magical intent.” Others have spelled it out already for those unclear on the concept. No need for me to recap.) I have a penny jar at home. Every time my husband says “just kidding” in an attempt to make the immediately preceding statement “you’re a stupid woman” ok he has to put a penny in the jar. I’m not ok with being called a stupid woman no matter what the intent is, but I am really super not-ok with the assumption that “just kidding” is a get out of jail free card. If you say something, own it. (These are my personal standards for anyone old enough to speak. You are free not to live up to them. I am free to think less of you. You are free not to care.)
Nobody here imagines that they can control either what Dan says or what other commenters say, and accusing them of that is a straw man. Address the issue or ignore it if it’s so irrelevant. Don’t be a dick. (No, that is not a threat to call the police if you continue to be a dick. It’s free advice.)
Not everyone who comments on SLOG is a misogynist semen stain. They really can't handle anyone who comes in and challenges the status quo, especially in regard to treating women and men like equal human beings. Lots of unrecognized privilege and gleeful trolling.
I completely agree with you. Solidarity!
Actually the man running the show is called "what God intended" or "the natural order of things" by a very large segment of Americans, the Bible, the Koran, etc.... When a man physically abuses a woman it's against the law (as not too many decades ago) but society still scoffs at a man who isn't in charge of his woman and scorns a woman who is.
DTMFA
And stop saying asshole to mean a shitty person 'cause assholes are one of the best things in the world.
JK
You are passionate, misguided and green. You shout first and wonder why you get shouted at. You suffer from an arrogance that compels you to discount the knowledge, experience and value of others in the name of sensitivity.
There are more than a handful of folks here that are fully capable of respectful, insightful, nuanced discussion of the day's sticky issues--particularly in the areas you clearly care about--but not with you.
Lose the oppressed crusader schtick, learn to communicate with others, and then you might be able to forward the causes that are dear to you.
Thanks so much for what you said. It's not easy to stand up to a hero who's using oppressive language.
To everyone else, do you want to stop discrimination or not? If so, then yes, you might actually have to give up some of your favourite words, which is hard, but not as hard as living under patriarchy.
It's not "thought police" it's called fucking growing up and working toward a better world, even if your favourite columnist might have to own his shit too.
Way to hold the line, R. Taylor. Thanks very much.
Thanks so much for what you said. It's not easy to stand up to someone so popular who's using oppressive language.
To everyone else, do you want to stop discrimination or not? If so, then yes, you might actually have to give up some of your favourite words, which is hard, but not as hard as living under patriarchy.
It's not "thought police" it's called fucking growing up and working toward a better world, even if your favourite columnist might have to own his shit too.
Way to hold the line, R. Taylor. Thanks very much.
I don't understand. My favorite words are boustrophedonic*, sesquipedalian and qualm...?
*Correctly used--to my delight--by Aykroyd in Spies Like Us.
oneajklein @67: It wasn't the request that put off most people here, it was her absolutist stance on the matter i.e. everyone who doesn't consider their language with the same care along the same lines of thought are, and I quote, "douchebags, assholes and people who revile me or condescend to me because of my gender." It isn't conducive to a healthy dialogue when folks come in knives out and ears closed.
[Careful about the "douchebag" stuff. People around here get pretty touchy.]
lolo @70, I'm with you with concupiscence and motherfucker, fine words. Also: "knives out and ears closed," indeed.
One of my all-time favorites, although technically it's three words I guess.
It probably has to go though. I'm being offensive to cows, aren't I?
It's one thing to discuss hearing such things from some random person but quite another to hear it from an internationally recognized 'progressive' sex columnist. His responsibility is greater because his audience is greater and views him as an expert.
[emphasis added]
Your level of PC offends me,so stop offending me. My favourite words: fucking idiot and fucking dumb southerner degenerate. Bite me!
When folks stop jumping down the throat of folks who just say what they think, when they stop ganging up and trying to shame into silence that opinion.... that is when I know that society has finally gotten a clue about what it means to be a woman in what is still a man's world.
Methinks thou dost protest too much, those who are so angry with R Taylor. Catch a clue, folks.
I sympathize with the language police; it feels sometimes as if language is the problem and something that can be easily corrected. What they forget, however, is that it's the attitudes that drive the language, not the other way around. A perfectly decent egalitarian isn't going to turn into a misogynist by saying "cunt" or "bitch" or "pussy-whipped."
Language is not a static thing, though, we give it meaning and we take away meaning. We call someone a cunt not because it's a woman's reproductive organs and those are obviously bad, but because it's the Worst Thing You Can Say™. I daresay a woman's reproductive organs are rarely on anyone's mind when the term is used; it's the shock value alone that matters. Consider how "cunt" and "pussy" are both used pejoratively to refer to the same thing, but one is considered worse than the other.
All of the words we use have origins, and most are metaphorical in derivation. The reason we use cunt and asshole and dick and pussy and shithead and so on is because they are vulgar. Slate's Lexicon Valley is very helpful in understanding how profanity and vulgarity has changed. Look for episode #28. http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/l…
As for nigger and faggot, they're neither profane nor vulgar, nor do they have a meaning in US English that has transcended their origin (except when members of the target group have re-appropriated the term).