But... what if neither you, nor the person you lust after is married? How can that be any form of adultery, imaginary or otherwise? For that matter, what if the other person is married, but you don't know that and you're not?
Anyway... New Testament. No stoning. And look at all the actually unfaithful Evangelical Republicans. Obviously, either God doesn't give a rat's ass; or He's saving it all up to smite their entire party in the mid-term elections.
If men didn't lust after women, none of us would be here to hear a lot of religious bullshit. I know the Christian religion hates all things that make us human. But this is a blatant attempt to use guilt to manipulate men.
My interpretation is that this was telling people who believe they are sinless/perfect that they too have capacity to sin and need salvation. One could imagine amongst the crowd wanting to stone the adultress, that some were grumbling about being superior because they hadn't sinned in that way. So this is a way if calling out that type of attitude. Not sure I agree with the idea of original sin and people needing salvation, but this passage I believe is often misused to reinforce perfectionistic or unreasonable standards, rather than "hey, we're all sinners so stop judging each other."
what a bomb this verse is. it just provokes. it has no meaning of it's own. leaves the reader no choice but to push back. nobody understands it, or can say to others what it means. it has no meaning! it just has fire and salt and poison. all we know for sure is that it comes from a man, who had a penis, and a heart, and that millions of hearts and penises have fought a pointless slaughter over this ground for centuries. @bromiust
Those of us older folks remember Jimmy Carter getting raked over the coals for admitting this one (and he came from the Bible Belt so even worse). I think it was during a Rolling Stone interview.
Poor, poor Jimmy Carter. It's weird that he read and believed the Bible, which is at odds with the Religious Right that ended up backing Reagan and kicking him out.
@12 comment #1 addresses this too. And it was an interview for Playboy, not Rolling Stone.
Remember way back when Playboy was also a source of news, arts, social commentary, and some T & A? That issue was one of my favorites.
I would beg to differ @11. What this verse implicitly states is that, when it comes to sin, intentions have the same consequences as actions. One does not have to carry out the sinful act in order to be guilty of sin; one merely has to imagine engaging in the sinful act, even if nothing more comes of it.
Presumably, as @9 suggests, this was intended as an admonition to believers who adopt an attitude of moral superiority over those found guilty of the act of sinning, that they themselves are no less guilty if they even merely think about sinning "in their hearts"; they know they've done it, therefore they must understand that Yahweh knows as well.
Actually, Gay Dude for Raindrop, it was ALL about the hostages in Iran. Reagan didn't have shit, except a treasonous plan to work with the enemy to prevent the hostages from being released under Carter's clock. He was quite a ways behind Carter until a week or two before the election. All your other reasons didn't play into it. It was ALL about the hostages, and just to provide a bit of shock to you, I voted for Ronnie in that election. He even bamboozled me before bankrupting the country.
There's little reason to doubt that Carter tries to be a good man. Habitat For Humanity is actually a worthwhile charity to which I donate both time and money.
There's no reason to doubt however that he was an incompetent president, or that his ideology (like all lefties) is that of a not very bright 5 year old child.
@17 Some of the hostages escaped on their own and were hiding in the Canadian Embassy until the US CIA could get a rescue mission going. The movie Argo is based on this mission. @16 It was Jimmy Carter that negotiated the release of the rest of the hostages. The release happened on Carter's last day in office, ironically Reagan's inauguration day. Carter negotiated the release, Reagan walks into office and then announces the release. Carter did the work but Reagan took the credit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostag…
But on that theory you'll be demanding Obama return his risible Nobel prize, given him well before he took office? No? Imagine that, a hypocritical lefty!
@16 Of course religion had something to do with it.
We can argue about how crucial to victory the religious right was for Reagan (or Bush the Younger, for that matter) but there's no denying that they did, in fact, embrace Reagan as their candidate, and they did, in fact, present this to the evangelical Protestants of the day as if Reagan was somehow the more "Godly" candidate. My parents were still dragging me to church in those days and I remember it vividly.
On a side note, when I was a kid and still trying sincerely to make sense of the Bible, I always assumed that verse had to be referring not to the passing thoughts and emotions that we all have, but to thoughts that are nurtured and encouraged and sought out -- you know, the difference between happening to catch a vision of a woman who inspires a random moment of lust, and hanging around outside her balcony with binoculars.
I have to agree with @15. Christianity is the original attempt to turn humanity itself into something better. Therefore, it's not enough to reform behavior; you must root out and destroy the impulse that might lead to the behavior down the road. It's no great surprise that subsequent attempts to create a new man, most notably communism, have used many of the same tools (e.g. confession, destruction of family ties, mortification of the body aka torture and deprivation).
I wonder if things work the other way though. If merely having a "bad" impulse without acting on it itself is a sin, does having a good intentions, either not acted upon, or acted upon with a bad unforeseen outcome, counts in your favor? This verse would seem to suggest that that might be the case, that the intention is perhaps even more important than the act or the outcome themselves.
Since adultery could always be reconciled by marriage or money... does this mean that such lusting leads to a a fantasy marriage in ones OWN mind?? Or by paying money, could there become a fantasy hooker trip? The Jews have lots of loopholes on this subject....Oy Vey call a rabbi. GOLDY????
What a fascinating misinterpretation of Christianity.
Few things to set you on the right road-
Christianity is about personal rather than social or species change. Comparisons to communism are simply wrong.
Christianity builds family and social obligations. Don't cheat on your spouse, honor your parents and so on. It warns against promiscuity and lying and the things that destroy these familial and social bonds.
The Inquisition, witch trials and other anomalies notwithstanding, I have yet to be tortured at my church. Though the Machiavelli poster has bizarre church based sexual fantasies I have yet to witness anything of the kind personally. Sorry kiddo, but keep dreaming. ..
This verse is simply reflective of a basic truth, if you plant and tend tomatoes you'll probably harvest red fruit with that taste an awful lot like tomatoes. If you plant and tend destructive thoughts in your mind you're going to act destructively.
@ 29, LOL. REAL Christianity is socialist. You've been lapping it up at the false prophet's table if you think anything in the Bible promotes the individual over the collective. Personal responsibility? Sure. But the individual over the collective? You'll find zero passages that will demonstrate a concern with anything but the general welfare of the world.
In 1976 born-again Christianity helped put Carter into office, but Ford's pardon of Nixon had a lot more to do with it.
By 1980 the born-again Christians had fully morphed into the Religious Right, turned against Carter, and helped put Reagan into office. However, the botched hostage rescue attempt that summer is what really did Carter in. No President, of either party, can get reelected if they make the US look like a hapless ineffectual clown. If the raid to kill Osama bin Laden had ended in disaster, we'd be kvetching about President Romney now; and if the raid to free the hostages had been successful, Ronald Reagan would be remembered as a mediocre actor who later served as Governor of California before disappearing down the memory hole.
Carter's been a better ex-President than he was President.
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Assuming that Jesus was careful with his wording (being the Son of Man/God/an adulteress with a really gullible husband), what He is trying to say seems to be that gay men and heterosexual women can lust as much as they want.
Wasn't there something about Contras and trading arms and Ollie North and illegality? And Reagan getting on the witness stand and saying over and over "I don't remember" like that was the truth?
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
As for the torture, for the most part it's self-inflicted (albeit encouraged by religious institutions). Fasting is a good example that's widely practiced today. Hair shirts and flagellants are examples of similar sorts of things. I had a teacher in Catholic school once who had her entire class hold our arms straight out to the sides to gain some understanding of what it was like for Jesus to be on the cross.
Christianity is about personal change. But so, fundamentally was 20th century communism. And, for that matter, fascism (which is why the youth wings of both were so important).
All three, Christianity, communism and fascism, share an understanding that each person is born a tabula rasa upon which may be written the necessary beliefs and desires needed to mold the individual into a proper citizen of Utopia.
I suspect this lies at the heart of why many Christians can't tolerate homosexuality...it interferes with their creation of the ideal person, who, needless to say, cannot possibly be gay.
@34: I didn't say "becomes President." I said "reelected President." Any piece of garbage (e.g.Ronald Reagan) can become President as long as his/her predecessor is a bigger piece of garbage.
Why is that? Because people weigh negative information as much as 10x as much as positive information (Google "negatively bias").
@31 - Yes, but the bad economy had a lot to do with it as well. Generally speaking, if the economy is bad, you lose. There are exceptions, such as when the country is attacked, or the economy was worse when you took office, but in general, that is what decides elections.
@41: sure, that's in the mix. Nevertheless, despite the worst economy since the Great Depression, Obama won reelection. That's because a) Romney had as much warmth as a sheet of aluminum foil, b) Obama killed Osama bin Laden.
@29, Judaism is the religion (some 500 years before Jezuz) which emphases family and other humans, and which also lists what shouldn't be done to that family or other humans.
Christianity's whole emphasis is on sin. The early Christians realized that it must be, because otherwise their thesis on Jezuz doesn't make any sense.
Anyway... New Testament. No stoning. And look at all the actually unfaithful Evangelical Republicans. Obviously, either God doesn't give a rat's ass; or He's saving it all up to smite their entire party in the mid-term elections.
The definition of adultery is being stretched pretty thin.
Remember way back when Playboy was also a source of news, arts, social commentary, and some T & A? That issue was one of my favorites.
Presumably, as @9 suggests, this was intended as an admonition to believers who adopt an attitude of moral superiority over those found guilty of the act of sinning, that they themselves are no less guilty if they even merely think about sinning "in their hearts"; they know they've done it, therefore they must understand that Yahweh knows as well.
Off topic a bit?
There's little reason to doubt that Carter tries to be a good man. Habitat For Humanity is actually a worthwhile charity to which I donate both time and money.
There's no reason to doubt however that he was an incompetent president, or that his ideology (like all lefties) is that of a not very bright 5 year old child.
Oh. Well if Wikipedia says it, it MUST be true!
But on that theory you'll be demanding Obama return his risible Nobel prize, given him well before he took office? No? Imagine that, a hypocritical lefty!
We can argue about how crucial to victory the religious right was for Reagan (or Bush the Younger, for that matter) but there's no denying that they did, in fact, embrace Reagan as their candidate, and they did, in fact, present this to the evangelical Protestants of the day as if Reagan was somehow the more "Godly" candidate. My parents were still dragging me to church in those days and I remember it vividly.
On a side note, when I was a kid and still trying sincerely to make sense of the Bible, I always assumed that verse had to be referring not to the passing thoughts and emotions that we all have, but to thoughts that are nurtured and encouraged and sought out -- you know, the difference between happening to catch a vision of a woman who inspires a random moment of lust, and hanging around outside her balcony with binoculars.
I wonder if things work the other way though. If merely having a "bad" impulse without acting on it itself is a sin, does having a good intentions, either not acted upon, or acted upon with a bad unforeseen outcome, counts in your favor? This verse would seem to suggest that that might be the case, that the intention is perhaps even more important than the act or the outcome themselves.
What a fascinating misinterpretation of Christianity.
Few things to set you on the right road-
Christianity is about personal rather than social or species change. Comparisons to communism are simply wrong.
Christianity builds family and social obligations. Don't cheat on your spouse, honor your parents and so on. It warns against promiscuity and lying and the things that destroy these familial and social bonds.
The Inquisition, witch trials and other anomalies notwithstanding, I have yet to be tortured at my church. Though the Machiavelli poster has bizarre church based sexual fantasies I have yet to witness anything of the kind personally. Sorry kiddo, but keep dreaming. ..
This verse is simply reflective of a basic truth, if you plant and tend tomatoes you'll probably harvest red fruit with that taste an awful lot like tomatoes. If you plant and tend destructive thoughts in your mind you're going to act destructively.
By 1980 the born-again Christians had fully morphed into the Religious Right, turned against Carter, and helped put Reagan into office. However, the botched hostage rescue attempt that summer is what really did Carter in. No President, of either party, can get reelected if they make the US look like a hapless ineffectual clown. If the raid to kill Osama bin Laden had ended in disaster, we'd be kvetching about President Romney now; and if the raid to free the hostages had been successful, Ronald Reagan would be remembered as a mediocre actor who later served as Governor of California before disappearing down the memory hole.
Carter's been a better ex-President than he was President.
As for the torture, for the most part it's self-inflicted (albeit encouraged by religious institutions). Fasting is a good example that's widely practiced today. Hair shirts and flagellants are examples of similar sorts of things. I had a teacher in Catholic school once who had her entire class hold our arms straight out to the sides to gain some understanding of what it was like for Jesus to be on the cross.
Christianity is about personal change. But so, fundamentally was 20th century communism. And, for that matter, fascism (which is why the youth wings of both were so important).
All three, Christianity, communism and fascism, share an understanding that each person is born a tabula rasa upon which may be written the necessary beliefs and desires needed to mold the individual into a proper citizen of Utopia.
I suspect this lies at the heart of why many Christians can't tolerate homosexuality...it interferes with their creation of the ideal person, who, needless to say, cannot possibly be gay.
Why is that? Because people weigh negative information as much as 10x as much as positive information (Google "negatively bias").
Christianity's whole emphasis is on sin. The early Christians realized that it must be, because otherwise their thesis on Jezuz doesn't make any sense.