As a general rule, partners who forbid you to do things that do not hurt them or the relationship - or things they themselves get to enjoy - consider you to be their possession, not their partner.

Wow, my first first!

CPOS alert --- C for "Controlling" in this case. Get out NOW. As in, NOW. As in, it's almost 5:15 -- why are you still living with her?

DTMFA. Dan's being kind and offering hope of salvaging things, but this does not look great. Not to put too fine a point on it, who's idea was getting pregnant? If that's something you were talked into, pause and rethink.

Call me an unfair absolutist, but the minute I see Lifetime Movie of the Week bullshit, I'm out.

A man who says "for the love of god don't have a kid together, that will handcuff to this crazy, controlling woman!" one often gets called a misogynist or an MRA. You're lucky, ADD, that you can avoid that sort of sanity-shaming and for the love of any god in the vicinity, take Dan's advice and RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

No second chances, no new agreements that she will supposedly keep. Dan's right: the second the kid arrives all the nasty stuff will return, and be ramped the hell up. Not "might", will: Manipulative and controlling people do not change, but they can be tactical.

Ricardo: Don't get cocky, kid.

Dan's being kind and offering hope of salvaging things..

"Hey, there's hope. We might not sink. This is the Titanic, after all!"

Nah. This seems more like the Wilhelm Gustloff.

@ 6 - I haven't been called "kid" in a long time. Thanks!

You should do your best to meet your partner's expectations.

Your partner expects you to cheat.

Therefore...

Wait a minute. A year ago, it was okay to see the ex just not solo. Maybe I'm an abuser but that seems reasonable. Now any contact is forbidden. Did something happen in the interim that might explain this? Absent that info it does look like escalation. The "don't talk about me" def seems off. But I would like more information.

I was with my ex for 20 years. My husband was with his for three. We both communicate with our exes, and both of us are completely fine with that. After all--these men were meaningful in our lives and helped us become the people we are now. What's wrong with an occasional phone call, email, or (gasp!) cup of coffee?

Run, ADD. Just run.

Just for fun about exes:

“We'd like to think we left a mark on our ex-lovers, but most if not all are probably fully engaged by their present lives and glad to be rid of us” By David Edelstein - “So Far Away” Slate, Thursday, Aug. 4, 2005

I love my girlfriend so much that we're trying to have children together.

This is not how babies work (unless you are explaining to a toddler where they come from). You decide to have a kid together because you are in a long-term stable relationship and feel confident the two of you are ready to care for a child, with all the stresses that brings, for the next few decades together. It's why marriage, or a marriage-equivalent commitment, are a good idea: because it's good for kids to have stable parents who aren't roaming off to find themselves and can work together to do what's best for the kids they knowingly brought into this world.

This letter really, really sounds like you're on board with the baby thing as a way to Prove Your Love.

Saying run is incompatible with saying go get counseling.

Dump the paragraphs that begin "My advice" and "Protip" and you've got a winner.

Love the protip. I'd love to hear if it's the LW or her girlfriend who's really pushing to get pregnant. $10 says it's the girlfriend; it's just one more method of control.

Calling her gf "a bit controlling" is like saying Pat Buchanan is "a bit racist."

It's so, so hard to hear, especially when you've got a house and pets and you really, really love her. Getting out is so complicated and messy and there's going to be pain and anger and drama, and you find yourself thinking, "I just can't face that. Maybe it'll get better!" so you stay anyway, because the change now is just too big and painful to contemplate.

But Dan's right. You need time and distance from her to see how slippery that slope has become. I suspect (and I'll admit, this is from my personal experience, so I could be projecting) that power in your relationship has been steadily, if slowly, moving into her hands. Do you share chores equally? Do you have equal say in where you go, what you eat, what you watch on TV? Or, bit by bit, did you find that it was easier to let her have her way than fight about it? And weren't the rewards great when you caved?

Until your compliance became expected, and then you had to give in even more. Sweetheart, run. Run now. You're still young -- seriously, 33 is young! -- and there's someone out there for you who won't want to change you. You know it's true; otherwise you wouldn't have asked for affirmation that what you believe to be wrong is really wrong.

Or, if this is tl;dr -- get out now! From someone who's been there.

to quote dan, 'the good times are just sprinkles on a dog shit sundae'.

Hi ADD. If and when you have the conversation about speaking/having contact with your ex, if she reacts in an out-of-control manner (yelling, verbal abuse, unfounded accusations) or takes on body language that makes you fearful, please take the cue and get out. I hate to bring the spectre of violence up, but with control and manipulation, that is unfortunately a distinct possibility.

Good luck to you.

I give the LW a point for speaking of her own feelings rather than calling the relationship all sorts of complimentary things not supported by the evidence she presents.

My only quibble:
>> If she gets to talk to her ex, you get to talk to your ex. If she gets to confide in friends and family, you get to confide in friends and family. >>

Can we chalk that up to rhetoric, Dan? The part where you say being able to get support from outside parties is "utterly crucial" makes much more sense than any kind of quid pro quo deal where they both agree to stop confiding in anyone else.

As most of the above commenters have already said, run! Run, run, run.

My ex did precisely the same thing to me. She isolated me from all of my exes, my friends, everyone. She forbade me to speak about her or our relationship to anyone else. When, in a futile attempt to point out the absurdity of her position, I told her that I would stop talking to my friends if she stopped talking to hers, she said "ok."

I did end up having a child with this woman. We are divorced, but she still, through our daughter, has the power to hurt me (and is using it).

LW: Pretty much just agree with Dan & everyone else above. People who are controlling tend to get worse, not better, over time. DO NOT HAVE A BABY WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND. (All-capped in hopes of catching your eye.) Chicldren shouldn't be had to make a relationship stronger, as they are massive stress creators. The *only* thing you should be getting with this girlfriend is counseling, & that is only if you feel she can honestly change some of her behaviors. W/out cognitive behavioral therapy or similar I don't see that happen for many people. If she's 100% unwilling, start trying to figure out life without her, because again, situations like these don't improve all on their own. Unfortunately.

I get such a bad feeling from this, and I don't speak from any perspective of expertise or experience. It's the ridiculously unreasonable rules, coupled with the double standards, that get me. If this is love, well damn, let me be lonely.

I won't repeat what the commenters have stated because I agree with all of it, but one of them mentioned that it's emotionally (and oftentimes financially) difficult to leave an abusive, or controlling, partner. This isn't like dating in high school. So much personal capital has been invested in the relationship and it's so hard to admit publicly to everyone that your perfect domestic world is actually a toxic cesspool. Plus it feels like you're blowing up the drama when you go public with it. What will people think? But it's gotta be done, and as hard as it is to leave now, I have to imagine that it will be worse later, and it will be sheer torture if a kid is involved. (PLEASE GET OFF THE BABY WAGON!! See? Now I'm repeating.)

So, practically, I would advice you to reach out for a lifeline through one or two friends you can confide in and start the gradual (and steady) process of reclaiming your self-sufficiency and extracating yourself from this quicksand trap. And that's the metaphor I would use. It's hard now, but it will be harder later.

And you're already 33. You don't have years to waste on a hopeless situation.

In the lesbian scene if you don't stay civil/sociable with your exes and don't manage to be civil/sociable with your partner's exes you will soon run out of lesbians to be civil/sociable towards.

The controlling alone would make me run.

Then again, "has forbade"? WTF? Call that grammar? Do not home school, what every your future choices.

In case you're wondering, "has forbidden" is the phrase. It's not difficult people.

Sigh, just notice the typographical error, which is not the same as the participle issue.

"ever"

Gawd, a bottle and a half of red wine and I simply cannot type. I mock myself.

I'm with @10. ADD writes, "I sat down with the ex two years ago and told her I couldn't see her alone..." What happened? Okay, GF might really be an overly-controlling hypocrite, but what if she's *not*? ADD indicated that she herself was the dumpee ("[My ex] had fallen in love with someone else..."), but she clearly has anger / denial issues surrounding the breakup ("I was technically the one who pulled the plug..."). So, GF might actually have some *pretty good reasons* for acting in a way that seems hyper-controlling from the outside, with only the light of one person's spin to guide us. I'd like to hear the new GF's side, but I suspect that GF was NOT The Dumped in her 9 year relationship, and was, perhaps, truly *done* and honestly available in a way ADD wasn't. Or, isn't. Either way, Dan's right: these lovers need counseling, honesty, and some luck. I hope they get all three before one of them (I couldn't tell which female partner was on the pregnancy "train" (Dan's not declaring that 39 isn't too old, is he?) hits the turkey-baster jackpot.

I'm an expert in long term relationships.....I've had dozens. (said dripping with self-deprecation and sarcasm). But my experience is that dating is like a job interview, and the beginning of a relationship is like getting the job and being on probation. That is probably the best behavior you can expect from that person. It might stay just as good, but it's unlikely to get any better.

If what they're giving you is what you want, then full steam ahead, live happily ever after. But if they're behaving in a deal breaking manner in the beginning, then you better run or learn to live with it. If someone showed up late for a job interview and you hired them anyway, then do you reasonably have any expectation that they will show up for work on time?

Good luck.

Heh...not sure how I missed this last night, but yes, one more: DTMFA and run run run...

....and yeah, if you can't bring yourself to that for your own sake: NO CHILDREN

I wish people would stop thinking about themselves and what they want and more about the kind of environment they are bringing a child into. When you and your mate have a fucked up and unhappy relationship, you make a child's life hell.

Run, do not walk, out of the house, and never come back.

My first true love is now one of my best friends. And my SO has no problems with that.

My first love and I started dating because we had a lot in common, and really liked each other. We stopped dating because romantically we just didn't work together. But we still had all that in common and still really liked each other. We just make better friends than lovers.

WE know that. Nothing will ever happen between us again because we already know it won't work, because we tried it.

My SO knows this.

And being gay this acceptance of friendships between exs is even more important. Dan has mentioned it before. There are so few gay people compared to straight people that if you can't be civil and friendly to your exs you aren't going to have many places you can go where there are a lot of gay people.

Hell, I have exs scattered all over the place. I am on good terms with almost all of them. I wouldn't have dated them if I didn't like them to begin with after all. My SO is pretty much the same. Neither of us is concerned about friendships with exs because we are secure in our current relationship.

That and we aren't batshit crazy.

ADD, this batshit crazy chick you are with has red flags coming out every orifice.

As other's said, the only problem with Dan's advice was suggesting you might work things out with a counselor. I'm all for counseling when appropriate, but in this case screw the counseling and run for the fucking hills.

Ultimatums ought be very rare in a relationship. Generally, they should never be used. If it is really, really important, they may be used once, perhaps twice, to explain that you do not want your spouse to do/not do X, as that will be the end of the relationship. If you give/receive more than 1 or 2, or if ultimatums are used for things that aren't REALLY important, then it is time to end the relationship.

"I forbid" is even more controlling and dangerous than an ultimatum, because it assumes there is no choice by anyone involved, and puts one person in a position of power over the other. It is never acceptable in a romantic relationship.

Some people never talk to their exes, some people remain friends with them, for some it's a mix depending on the person. But it is always up to you to decide the level of contact with your exes, while presumably keeping it on the appropriate social level - i.e. friendly, not flirtatious. Her problem with it is a sign of her own insecurity. She either trusts you or she doesn't. If she doesn't, she should break up with you. If she trusts you and you violate that trust, that makes you a rotten person, but that is not something she could have prevented by forbidding you from this or that.

I think Dan recommended counseling on the off chance that there is hope for the girlfriend here to become a better person and a better girlfriend. If she doesn't, DTMFA. If she resists counseling, DTMFA. I do think LW should have girlfriend read this thread, though. That might solve the problem one way or another. It certainly will break through whatever self-rationalization the girlfriend has built up inside telling her it's okay to have this controlling double standard.

Caveat: I do think, generally speaking, that problems in a relationship are best resolved by and between the two people in that relationship, when possible, rather than having a relationship by committee or family group, but that doesn't mean a moratorium on getting advice from friends or family or the occasional venting. However, if you are not seeking advice but affirmation ("I was right and he was being an asshole, right") not so you can decide whether to continue in the relationship or how to fix it but so you can go back and shove it in his face (You owe me an apology; all my friends and family agree I am right and you were just being a dick") then your relationship is already in serious trouble and you have made him your opponent, not your partner.

RUN BRO!!!!

@18 worded it much more clearly and effectively than I could, but honey, I have been there. I stayed 30 years. And now, several years past the divorce, I still feel like I need to ask permission to go out for coffee by myself, let alone with a friend. You are the frog in boiling water.

No contact with your ex is a typical red flag for abusers, that's pretty commonly known.

But the, "she doesn't want me talking about her to anyone at all.." was what was a huge red flag for me. Not only is this an unreasonable request in that there are lots of happy healthy reasons to talk to friends about your relationship (ie: "I love the relationship I'm in! My girlfriend is awesome! We're trying to have a baby! yay!" what exactly is wrong with that?) and as Dan pointed out, it means you aren't supposed to reach out to friends if something is weird and you need a sounding board or get an opportunity for someone to say GET OUT NOW.

The BIG reason I found this to be unreasonable is that ADD can only be responsible for half of this promise. She cannot keep her friends from asking her, "How is your gf?" or, "why do you never talk about your gf?" or "I'm worried about the effect your relationship is having on you." Even if she says, "I'm not supposed to talk about it," she already has. If GF finds out about this, she'll find ADD responsible, most likely, no matter how adamant ADD was that she really couldn't talk about it. And if friends of ADD see her saying, "I'm not supposed to talk about it," they will probably recognize the abuse and try to point it out. Again, if GF hears about this, ADD is responsible for making her look like an abuser.

In short, it is an unreasonable and unhealthy promise, but it is also an impossible one that is likely to perpetuate the control GF has over ADD. Impossible promises=abuse.

The moment a romantic partner says "I forbid ..." - run for the hills. It's a good bright-line rule to have. If a romantic partner is so controlling as to forbid things, it's not a relationship you want to be in. No romantic partner should ever have the right to forbid things. The only thing a romantic partner has the right to do is to request things, as of an equal, and to hope that their partner will agree to the request.

As for not talking to friends about the relationship, that's also a huge red flag. Yeah, washing relationship dirty laundry in public is not good manners, but in a controlling relationship, the only "sanity check" that the controlled party can get is by talking with friends. If you never get that sanity check, you'll start believing that all sorts of things are normal that really aren't anywhere near normal.

That, I can relate to. I was in a controlling relationship for way too long (though my partner never forbade things, at least), and I was closeted, so I could not talk to anyone about the relationship. All sorts of things became "normal" that really should not have been. When I finally gathered the courage to come out to one of my friends, her reaction to the relationship was very helpful as a neutral outside perspective; she was shocked at the way my girlfriend was treating me. It gave me the courage to get out.

My advice to the LW would be to DTMFA ASAP and to stay single for a while afterwards. After a controlling relationship, it takes some time to get your head together. It took me 4 years. I'm hoping it does not take the LW quite as long as that, but she definitely shouldn't rush into dating again.

And by the way, this is one ex with whom you should NOT maintain any kind of contact. Even if she begs you to stay "friends" or fuckbuddies or whatever. No contact. I wasted another 2 years of my life on that particular trick.

I want to throw one thing in the ring though. While I agree wholeheartedly about the behavior of the gf is a huge red flag and it will ramp up, I once told my boyfriend to stop talking about me to people and I am not abusive (actually, it was the other way around). It was for a specific reason though. Basically, he had this habit of talking to family and friends only when he was upset or pissed off.

So, every time we got into a fight, he would go off and bitch about me for an hour or so with a friend or family member. Then, when we made up and he was happy, there was no followup with them about how he had been in the wrong, or I had apologized for something and we were better. So, his family hated me for the most part because they couldn't reconcile the shitty things he said when he was angry to the lovey-dovey way we acted in person and thought my niceness was just being fake. They assumed that I was this monster when my bf was actually mentally ill with untreated depression and anxiety.

Anyway, after about two years of this behavior, I asked him to cut it out. If he needed to bitch, he needed to follow up with them when he was not depressed and explain what actually happened. So, I do think there are exceptions to this rule, and it's not always just controlling behavior. I also do not think that's going on the the LW's case though.

I did forbid one thing in my 13-year partnership--I called it 'putting my foot down'. My sweetie was traveling in Estonia, and would be near the Russian border. She talked of wanting to see St. Petersburg, maybe taking a day trip there. I said I didn't want her going alone. See if there's a tour group going, or if someone at her hotel is going and they can team up, whatever. But don't go alone. She agreed.

When she got back, I asked her if she'd gone, explaining that, now that she's home safely, it would not bother me if she'd actually gone to St. Petersburg by herself. She hadn't, mostly because she'd agreed not to.

I would never tell her she couldn't see an ex, nor would she say that to me.