Comments

1
Growing up, my two best friends were the twins who lived across the street. Everyone on the block called them The Twins because we all knew who they were.

Twin Bobby (names changed) was "all boy" in the 1960s sense. Sports, trucks, playing Army with plastic rifles. Timmy...he liked to sweep. He would sweep and sweep the driveway after they did their family lawn care, and complain if it got messy. Where his brother was covered in dirty clothes, he, wearing the same exact outfit as twins do, was pristine. He like doing stuff "with the girls" that might include Easy Bake Ovens, but would also play ball, and the full array of Boy Stuff as well.

Make of it what you will.
2
How old is the kid? If he's 12 and likes to dress like a girl and lives as a girl, that's a thing. But if he's five, does it really mean anything? Isn't playing around with gender part of regular childhood experience?
3
It is an amazing thing to have sons. As a woman (and formerly a girl), I thought things just didn't affect/matter to boys as much as girls. Wrong, wrong, wrong. All children have feelings and fears and the whole enchilada. It is really important to encourage them to embrace those feelings (or you will get a emotionally stunted person).

Good for this father for loving his son for ALL that he is.
4
a father supporting his son is not a narrative we hear often enough, and it highlights how being a stereotypical man doesn't have to mean being a bully to your nonconforming child

To this dudebro's ears, you sound sort of like the racist who is pleasantly surprised to discover a black person who isn't a convicted felon.

Anyway, thanks, I suppose, for sharing a narrative in which the male isn't cast as rapist, sexual harasser, groper, wife-killer, street harasser, "privileged" recipient of higher wages, internet troll, or student acquitted of false rape accusations made by a crazy ex-girlfriend but damn the facts a man accused of rape is a rapist so at the very least we should be entitled to ruin his life by smearing his name all over the internet.

I'm probably not kissing enough ass here to win one of your coveted gold star comment awards, am I?
5
Oooh, I just finished reading his wife's new book. He didn't have a big voice in that book, so it's nice to see this article. Thanks.
6
You know, as I read this post I found myself thinking "I feel like this story could use some rape apologia. Thanks @4 for filling that need.
7
@6 You have enthusiastically missed the point of that comment.
8
The wife/mom of this kid writes an awesome blog- http://raisingmyrainbow.com/ So worth a read if you need a smile on this gloomy day. Definitely a great family who loves their kids for who they are.
9
being a stereotypical man doesn't have to mean being a bully to your nonconforming child


WTF? It is apparent Cienna harbors some really negative stereotypes about men.
10
@4, @7, @9: Interesting that when discussing a woman who has written about shitty things that men do, your first instinct seems to be to criticize her for writing about them, and not to criticize them for doing shitty things in the first place.

I'm a man and I have no issue with Cienna's posts about men and gender relations issues. That is because when she writes about a men who are rapists, street harassers, etc., I know she isn't writing about me.

As a man, if I have a problem with the stereotypical man being a bully to a non-conforming child, my issue isn't with the woman reporting on the stereotype. It is with my fellow men who live out the stereotype.
11
Backyard Bombadier @10, interesting how? What is it you're trying imply about me, exactly?

I'd like to understand your ad hominem attack a little better, if you are capable of articulating it. Your second paragraph stops a little short of making actual accusations.

Perhaps unlike yourself, I am quite capable of disapproval for people who bully children AND people who propagate negative stereotypes. It's not an either/or proposition, really.
12
@10 I think some are taking issue with the assumption that the "stereotypical Man" is a bully to non-conforming children. Nothing is given to support that assumption, although I guess it fits the narrative.

Also, if you took time off from patting yourself on the back for being so so progressive, you could actually read the thread and see that no where did I criticize the author, and was instead responding to commenter 6.

13
@4,9, did you read the article? Maybe you should go read the article, like I suggested, before embarrassing yourself in comment threads. Here, I'll help. It begins: "I’m a stereotypical 'guy’s guy' and hyper-masculine to a lot of people, I guess."

@10, I like your style.
14
@11: Good of you to note that my second paragraph didn't make actual accusations against anyone - that is how you can tell that it isn't an ad hominem argument.

What I am implying - well, saying in fact - is that there is a pattern: Woman talks about some shitty thing a man, or (some) men, has done; (some) men take umbrage that the woman has done so. It is an interesting reaction because takes the focus off the bad behavior and transfers it to the woman who had the audacity to report on the behavior. It suggests that the man having the reaction isn't prepared to examine his own behavior and that of other men to see if, just maybe, there is some room for improvement.

@12: Yes, yes, responding to @6 who was calling out @4 for doing what I describe above. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that your support for @4 meant you agreed with him. As to the stereotype... yeah, just read the article. Or, you know, look around.

@13: Thanks; likewise.
15
@9,

Huh? She said being a "stereotypical" man (liking sports, working in law enforcement) *doesn't* equate to being a bullying asshole. What in the fuck? Seriously.
16
I think there is an issue of semantics at play and people are reading different thing into the word "stereotype". Are we breaking stereotypes? Are we playing into them? What is the steretypical male? Are all men assholes?

What about Keshmeshi? What's her deal?

Either way, I'm out. See you in the funny pages!

17
@15, Wrong. She said “being a stereotypical man doesn't have to mean being a bully.” As in, it usually does. Matt Duron doesn’t go that far in the piece, either.

@14 said:
It suggests that the man having the reaction isn't prepared to examine his own behavior

...and there is the ad hominem. If I have a problem with propagating a negative male stereotype, it MUST be because I am guilty of some un-named bad "behavior." Thanks for clearing that up.

@13, "The Atlantic did it first" is not much of a defense. Have you ever seen a piece on gender in The Atlantic with something positive to say about masculinity as a whole?
18
Not taking anything away from this father, but it's sad in this day and age that someone must be commended for being a human being.
19
@17: " If I have a problem with propagating a negative male stereotype, it MUST be because I am guilty of some un-named bad 'behavior.'" Not what I said. What I said was, it may be because you aren't willing to "examine [your] own behavior and that of other men."

Look, let me stuff the straw man for you. What you want me to be saying is this: "If you complain about a post that talks about men who rape, that means you must be a raper too!" I can see why you want me to be saying that: it's easily refutable bullshit.

But that's not what I said and it's not what I mean.

There are male stereotypes, archetypes, call them what you will, in our society and culture. The "manly man" is one of them. The guy who is like the author of the linked article: "police officer... before that I was a firefighter... played football in college after playing baseball and football in high school, and lettering my sophomore year. I like beer, classic trucks, punk music, riding my motorcycle and catching the game with my buddies."

A common assumption would be that a man described that way would reject or try to change his son if that son "wears dresses. And heels, and makeup." That's why this story means something. If the author were a BFA from Berkeley who ran an organic vegan bakery stall between teaching yoga classes, well, that would be playing into a whole different stereotype.

This article actually does what you want it to do: it challenges the prevailing narrative that strong manly men must necessarily be homophobic and transphobic. It demands a re-evaluation of that stereotype - ideally, a re-evaluation by strong manly men who may reflexively adopt a homophobic or transphobic posture because consciously or subconsciously they believe they must in order to remain strong and manly.

That is the point that is missed in comments like @4, in favor of an easy slam on a woman who dares to write about men.
20
Here's what I've learned. You cannot change others. You can only change yourself. Trying to change others, including your children, will only lead you both to unhappiness. Instead, love them. It makes you both happier.
21
@19: Bless you.
22
@19 - And the silence from the peanut gallery following your fantastic comment is deafening. Well done.
23
@19: well done indeed. Great comments in this thread.
24
@21,22,23: Thanks. You are too kind.
25
Thank you @19. And this is actually an enormously moving story, so let us set aside the misplaced hostility and quasi-MRA bullshit in this thread and appreciate that.

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