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@10, funny because it's true.
Is that your idea of equality, Dan (and SLOG)?
Ayn Rand is also a CPOS.
I just had a nasty thought, did you sign anything about paying rent? If not, move out ASAP, preferably to a good and caring friend's place. Ignore his threats; maybe by covering a month's share of the rent buy some quiet. Learn to be free again.
It's not just a case of DTMFA, it's a case of "DTMFA and make sure he doesn't talk to anyone who will eventually run the Fed."
Leaving a good job to work part-time after our oldest was born nearly wrecked my marriage. Not everyone is cut out for the support role.
Our youngest went right to a sitter after my leave was up, we net less than me working part-time with no daycare costs, but we're much happier.
It's so good to be back to income parity!
@23: Yeah! The hours on the home front are significant and I'd guess she does WAY more of the cleaning, cooking, and logistics. The amount he saves on maids, secretaries, and prostitutes (that on-demand, un-reciprocated sex) is far beyond the taxi/bus fare and birthday dinners.
@4: No. @7 + 25: Yes. Dan's got better in the last 7 years at calling out these red flags. The BF's behavior is not only controlling but vindictive, punishing her for being stuck in the rain, ordering food that is too expensive/good for her and having sex only in ways that he enjoys and she doesn't.
So here's "the rest of the story": either she ovaried up and DTMFA'd or they're married with 3 kids, the emotional abuse has worsened and the physical abuse started and worsened at each greater commitment (getting pregnant, getting married, knocking out each kid) that left her feeling more and more trapped.
How do people like that even get laid, let alone loved?
As @23 points out, usually the under-employed person finds ways to be useful to the household which help make up for not paying their share. If the well-employed one feels the poorer one is taking advantage, then they no longer trust each other and should just break up.
Then again I just blew my entire savings on a down payment for our new place, so maybe not that guilty.
To anyone wondering whether this rings true, I've read similar letters from women who are so insecure or doubt their own gut instincts about their CPOS partners, especially when the same men are flawlessly (and insincerely) caring and charming in the public eye.
Here's when you should feel guilty:
- When you want a nicer place and you pressure him to pay more in housing than he can afford to pay on his smaller salary.
- When you like eating in nice restaurants but you go with your work colleagues because your husband can't afford to pay his share.
- When you refuse to help him out in emergencies, or expect to be paid back for your time & trouble (like the LW's bf).
lifestyle you're sharing and you're both happy living at that level
My wife can cover only 10% of our mortgage, so we've agreed that she uses only 10% of the house, namely the kitchen and the laundry room.
And my kids sleep in the yard for $50 a month, and you can be sure they'll pay every cent back with interest just as soon as they're old enough to skirt child labor laws.
Can I come live with you and your family? I'll bring the ass and mow the grass.
"This is Africa"?
Tho he might actually be up for some of the sexual torture...
Hopefully this guy isn't also murdering on the side
Typical abuser behavior.
I really don't know if I see 'abuser' here - I see a very very very selfish, douchey person - someone who was probably raised to be that way - and that is bad-boy attractive because he can take her or leave her - a human attraction dynamic that's been around for quite a while. Indifference is one of the most powerful aphrodesiac/pheremone attractors.
It doesn't sound like he's trying to isolate her and control her - I'm not a shrink but I believe most abusers desperately need to control their victims to make sure they aren't abandoned..this guy sounds like she could tell him to FO and walk out and he'd hardly notice the difference. Sounds like he's more worried she'll somehow get something from him - like somehow get one over on him.
I dunno - I just think it's a little different dynamic - not saying he's not OCD or doesn't have some kind of personality disorder - he certainly has no respect for her and treats her as sub-human, at least relative to himself.
I do agree about the NPD elements. Also, despite my initial snarky comment, I very much hope she got away and found a relationship with someone who did value her.
It's been years since I DTMF, but I still re-read this letter every once in a while, so I can remember how bad he was to me.
@63: Yay! Glad to hear it, you were in a terrible situation from the sound of the letter.
@64 Agreed. More precisely, acronyms are pronounced as words (sonar, radar, laser, and NATO) while initialisms are sounded out as individual letters (ATF and NTSC). (And there are combinations such as JPEG, etc). There was review of medical journal article citations which found that studies forming a single, pronounceable word were cited more often than ones that used initialisms. That led to more and more studies getting memorable names with, at least count, 13 cardiology studies named "HEART" which some would call a "backronym".
Many of the sign-offs LWs use on SLLOTDs are clearly backronyms.
@18 Ayn Rand is undead, though, right ?
@33 "Obviously that woman is not listening to her mother." "That kind of desperate young woman typically evolves from awful families with horrendous mothers. "
Way to blame the victim, Phoebe. The empathy is not too strong in you, it seems.
In my experience, that kind of "desperate young woman" has some experience of females being systematically undervalued and badmouthed, just for being females. You know, just like you just did to LW and her mother - the closest female relative you could think of. Are you a self-hating misogynist, or a posing-as-a-female misogynist ?
One way this kind of asshole gets loved is by trapping very loving and naive persons, by being extremely nice and attentive to them at first, something that the unsuspecting reacts to by attaching strongly, and opening entirely, and sharing every insecurity in great detail.
Once the asshole knows all the buttons, he/she starts to retreat very slowly to his/her baseline of selfishness, it can take years until they feel comfortable. Whenever the victim becomes conscious that one act is unkind, they act the victim, claiming to have been wronged, claiming they have been misunderstood, and they also lash out by pushing all the buttons of the insecurities, in a covert or even overt way, until the victim ends up a sobbing mess who cries for forgiveness for having doubted a being who is so much better than themselves. It works very well on loving, trusting persons - usually on young adults who lack self confidence. Once they've morphed themselves into "good, superior beings" in the minds of their victims, they can lead the parasitic life that has always been their goal - living of their host. Usually they hate losing the victim, not because they like the victim, but because they feel the victim belongs to them, because they've invested so much time in training him/her. And parasits can't really prosper without a host nearby...
The only thing that can be said about victims of such abuse is that they are selfless and loving. They can come from many backgrounds - happy ones too.
I wasn't the first person he'd latched onto either; he'd had years of practice at it.
73 - Very well stated. Parasite is the perfect word.
63 - I'm so glad you got out.
And fuck you Phoebe. Beneath your mask of civility, you are one cold bitch.
@63: I'm unclear whether you wrote this letter or if it just helped you out of your own situation. Either way, happy to hear you're doing well. :)
And thanks for "parasite". I've come to the realization that such abusers project authority and assurance because they don't want us to realize how weak and dependent from us they are in fact. Which may be the reason why they deeply hate our guts - they can't live without us and it's not out of love, it's out of being unable to stand up by themselves.
@vennominon I'll admit I have a hard time with differentiating "selfless" from "loving". Could you help me out ?
Hugs from Seattle and I wish you well on your healing.
@75: I'm glad you're out from under that, Pridge- the relationship and the mindset.
@82: It's hard if not impossible to be loving if you have no sense of self. You can't be giving if there's nothing to give.
Congratulations on having life figured out from birth, Phoebe! If you could just educate the rest of us pathetic unwashed blind graspers on how not to be so lamentably flawed and human we'll be sure to sacrifice twice as many fatted calves as last season! .