Blogs Dec 31, 2013 at 1:27 pm

Utah Files for a Stay on Gay Marriages from Justice Sotomayor

Paul Constant
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Comments

1
Obviously all the anti-gay justices will recuse themselves, given their comments on DOMA.

That means you, Alito
Will in Seattle on December 31, 2013 at 1:30 PM Report this
2
Does the same burden of proof apply here as it did in previous reviews? That is, does the State (of Utah) have to present evidence of either irreparable harm or likelihood of winning on the merits in order to receive a stay from SCOTUS? Because it sure doesn't seem like they been able to meet those standards in their prior bids.
COMTE on December 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM Report this
3
@2 - It has been speculated that that is exactly why they took the extra time to file this appeal. They wanted to make sure they had a good enough case to present for their last chance at a stay.
MacCrocodile on December 31, 2013 at 1:56 PM Report this
4
He's so full of shit. The Utard churchislature has declared war on gay marriage and has approved $2 million - so far - to defend their myopic view of love and marriage. I'm sure the wardhouses will be passing the hat at the next few Sunday gatherings to add more to the pot, and family home evenings will be spent discussing how the gays are ruining Utah. They're not going to play nice, and they sure as hell don't have respect and goodwill for anyone on the opposite side of what they believe.
StuckInUtah on December 31, 2013 at 2:10 PM Report this
5
I'm not a Christian and I don't disagree with you about anti-gay-marriage forces being Christian, Paul, but there's this https://www.facebook.com/believeoutloud and this http://www.manyvoices.org/ and this http://www.welcomingresources.org/news.h… and this http://www.clgs.org/ and many more. I'm surprised that you didn't acknowledge our pro-gay-marriage Christian allies, and it would sure help if they got a little ink once in a while too.
charliesierra on December 31, 2013 at 2:15 PM Report this
6
The ELCA elected an openly gay bishop in May, Rev. R. Guy Erwin. Are Lutherans Christian?
an epicurean on December 31, 2013 at 2:20 PM Report this
7
...In the 1870s and throughout the final quarter of the 19th century, the two major Salt Lake City newspapers—the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News and the anti-Mormon Salt Lake Tribune—were continually at war... (Here.)
I'm optimistic about the next hundred years. Things are in fact getting better for gay Mormons, even if the church hierarchy still tacitly supports activism by elected public officials.
rob! on December 31, 2013 at 2:22 PM Report this
9
Don't get your panties in a bunch. This has exactly a zero percent chance of succeeding.
Fifty-Two-Eighty on December 31, 2013 at 2:30 PM Report this
10
@5 "...surprised that you didn't acknowledge our pro-gay-marriage Christian allies..."

Welcome back to Slog. There's a whole place for that now!
Dan Savage got so sick of people coming up to him after talks and TV appearances informing him that not all Christians were bigots and against full equality of LGBT people that he came up with a word for them—"NALTS"—for "Not All Like That..."
rob! on December 31, 2013 at 2:43 PM Report this
11
The stay application, for @2&3 and whoever else may be interested.

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/wp-conte…
Hanoumatoi on December 31, 2013 at 3:03 PM Report this
12
As a straight white christian who very much supports gay rights, always voted that way, supported with my dollars, and had those hard conversations with fellow christians, I can tell you it is much easier to contribute to the gay rights movement that way than by starting our own "straight christian ally" organization.
The basic problem is that it's really hard to get people to sign up, volunteer, donate, advocate, etc... unless you have something you can tell them to actually go do. I don't know what a straight christian pro-gay org would tell people to do other than the stuff that those people are already doing, and doing it for mainstream pro-gay orgs.
JonCracolici on December 31, 2013 at 3:12 PM Report this
13
Honestly, I think the easiest way to accomplish that PR would be to allow people to state their religion(with a brief sentence explaining why the question is asked) when they donate or volunteer. That way you could get the numbers.
Spitballing, maybe its been done, but maybe the HRC could make an umbrella org that churches could join. Growing up Lutheran I haven't NOT had a gay pastor since I was 8. There are some extremely supportive congregations out there.
JonCracolici on December 31, 2013 at 3:16 PM Report this
14
And on those other guys....using bible speak....
They are m*therf*ckin Pharisees who need to recognize their wrong relationship with Jesus. The stories about the tax collector party, the wheat on the path, and the withered hand at temple should be read to them over and over until they get it.
JonCracolici on December 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM Report this
15
The fuck is working to annul the marriages of some of the citizens he ostensibly works for and deny them the right to marry in the future, but he doesn't fucking, fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck think it needs be divisive?! Fuck, fuck, fuck.
fletc3her on December 31, 2013 at 3:26 PM Report this
16
Regarding Christians, I will say that most of the meetings I attended regarding R-74 were held at various churches. We were addressed by pastors several times and many of the allies working on the campaign were churchgoers. And there was also a lot of support from the Jewish community as well.

Locally at least there is a lot of support for equality from christians.
fletc3her on December 31, 2013 at 3:34 PM Report this
17
@fletc3her: From the brief filed today: "As a result of the district court's injunction, numerous same-sex marriages are now occurring every day in Utah. And each one is an affront not only to the interests of the State and its citizens in being able to define marriage through ordinary democratic channels [...] but also to this Court's unique role as final arbiter of the profoundly important constitutional question that it so carefully preserved in Windsor."

That's not divisive. Calling people's marriage an affront.
Hanoumatoi on December 31, 2013 at 4:12 PM Report this
18
@Paul: You misread Buzzfeed. She set a deadline for the Plaintiffs' brief to be in. She can't make a decision until after she has that brief and has read it. She probably will have an answer by the end of the day, but it may be as late as Monday.
Hanoumatoi on December 31, 2013 at 4:14 PM Report this
19
@5: It would be nice if there was enough money and lobbying to fully combat the hatemongers, though.
undead ayn rand on December 31, 2013 at 4:29 PM Report this
20
Check out The Christian Left on FaceBook. You might be pleasantly surprised to see that there are more non-conservative Christians than you thought.
jcricket, the original on December 31, 2013 at 5:23 PM Report this
21
@10, oh my goodness of course, can't believe I left that out! @19, exactly...and one of the ways to get more money and lobbying is to build up the numbers of people who stand up and are counted, and one of the ways to do that is to let people know there are places to do that, easy to join, with a "like" or whatever, no need to start something from scratch. Then the narrative changes, as the Christians who oppose us are increasingly marginalized, even among their own religion.
charliesierra on December 31, 2013 at 5:26 PM Report this
22
@14, no, just stop with the explanations of scripture. For one thing, you and the New Testament have got things wrong; Jesus was a Jew and the Pharisees were not the Temple party he was supposedly fighting against. But most importantly, this isn't a battle of the Bible interpretations. You do that with fundamentalists and you lose right off the bat.
sarah70 on December 31, 2013 at 6:17 PM Report this
23
There's also the Methodist Church, which is officially anti-gay, but is full of ministers rejecting this position. Earlier this month, Rev. Frank Schaeffer was defrocked for having presided over the same-sex marriage of his son years ago and was quickly offered a job by a Methodist bishop across the country.

Most other Protestant denominations have decided their position on the issue. But the Methodists, with about 7.7 million members in the U.S. and many more overseas, remain divided. At their last national meeting in 2012, delegates reaffirmed the church's 40-year-old policy on gays.

Yet hundreds of Methodist ministers have publicly rejected the doctrine, and some face discipline for presiding over same-sex unions. Last month, in a public challenge to church rules, a retired Methodist bishop officiated at a wedding for two men in Alabama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/22…

(At the bottom of the post is a slideshow with 91 religious leaders who are pro-LGBT.)
seatackled on December 31, 2013 at 6:26 PM Report this
24
Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor may not want to rule independently, can defer to the full court, and probably will. Then it takes five SCOTUS votes to stop handing marriage licenses to same sex couples by imposing a stay, while the matter is litigated and probably lands in their court.

I doubt they even have four votes for that but we'll see.
Jim Detwiler on December 31, 2013 at 6:38 PM Report this
25
Why pick Sotomayor? There must be some reason I can't figure out.
sarah70 on December 31, 2013 at 6:46 PM Report this
26
@25: Sotomayor is the SCOTUS justice assigned to hear stay requests from the 10th Circuit, just as Kennedy has the 9th, Scalia has the 5th, and so forth.

Take a look at the attorneys Utah hired. This guy Stewart was co-chair of one of the sponsors of Amendment 3. He also created an anti-equality foundation whose board members include Maggie Gallagher, and malfeasance charges were made against him in 2004 for campaign finance violations in connection with the initiative to pass Utah's DOMA law. He's the bag man for the Mormon Church.
Dr. Z on December 31, 2013 at 7:22 PM Report this
27

Sotomayor handles emergency requests from Utah and other Rocky Mountain states. She can act by herself or get the rest of the court involved.



http://www.businessinsider.com/utah-want…
Sandiai on December 31, 2013 at 7:26 PM Report this
28
Or, what @26 said.
Sandiai on December 31, 2013 at 7:27 PM Report this
29
@22
While its fine that you think I'm wrong, it's useless to try to have a *biblically* focused debate if you think that the New Testament is wrong.
Duh Jesus was a Jew. Is that still news?
From what I have heard about them, and their description in scripture, the Pharisees were basically SUPER orthodox Jews. Like tried to memorize the Talmud and all that. Had a relationship to God and righteousness based on perfect adherence to rules. Is that wrong?
JonCracolici on December 31, 2013 at 7:46 PM Report this
30
Paraphrasing from the brief: "We don't have to prove that it makes sense, rational basis means they have to prove no rational person could believe it makes sense."

So they want to be allowed to keep discriminating because there might be a reason it makes sense, but they don't have to tell you what that reason is, or defend it.

But it's not animus!!!
Hanoumatoi on December 31, 2013 at 7:51 PM Report this
31
Complete list of Supreme Court justices' assigned Circuit Courts, if anyone wants to keep it handy (it changes occasionally):
As of September 28, 2010, the allotment of the justices among the circuits is:

Circuit........................................Justice
District of Columbia Circuit....Chief Justice Roberts
First Circuit...............................Justice Breyer
Second Circuit...........................Justice Ginsburg
Third Circuit..............................Justice Alito
Fourth Circuit............................Chief Justice Roberts
Fifth Circuit...............................Justice Scalia
Sixth Circuit..............................Justice Kagan
Seventh Circuit..........................Justice Kagan
Eighth Circuit............................Justice Alito
Ninth Circuit.............................Justice Kennedy
Tenth Circuit.............................Justice Sotomayor
Eleventh Circuit........................Justice Thomas
Federal Circuit..........................Chief Justice Roberts
rob! on December 31, 2013 at 7:54 PM Report this
32
Since we're talking about Utah, it's worth pointing out that Mormons are to Christianity what Christians are to Judaism.
NotYourStrawMan on December 31, 2013 at 8:53 PM Report this
33
I gleefully await Sotomayor's smackdown of the stay. Who knows how the case will ultimately be ruled on appeal, but Utah's argument for a stay are going nowhere.
Reverse Polarity on December 31, 2013 at 9:02 PM Report this
34
@32

I would say that Mormons are to Christianity what Chris Farley was to John Candy.
seatackled on December 31, 2013 at 9:49 PM Report this
35
Paul, I'm all for Christians JOINING religious (or secular) organizations that support marriage equality and gay rights more generally, but please, please don't encourage people to start new organizations. Seriously, there are a LOT of these groups. Some really have it together, but many are small and poorly funded and overlap tremendously in what they are trying to do. We do not all need to have our own organizations because we are such special flowers. We need to find viable groups we can support and support them. Otherwise, we spend (read: waste) too much of our time building spreadsheets of contacts for so many tiny groups and trying to coordinate meetings and look for synergies... It's all pretty exhausting. We don't have the advantage of the top-down structure of the more conservative churches, including the Catholic and Mormon churches. Let's not make it harder.
s.n.c. on December 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM Report this
36
The one I belong to and support: Reconciling Ministries Network http://www.rmnetwork.org/

Seriously Paul, while I agree that most of the opposition uses Christian language and claims to speak for Christianity, it hurts our cause to frame this as Gays vs Christianity.

Lots of moderate Christians are stuck in a "Hate the sin, love the sinner" viewpoint with the best of intentions, and the more they hear that Christians oppose gay marriage from *both* sides, the more sure they are that as Christians they must oppose it.
wingedkat on January 1, 2014 at 12:15 AM Report this
37
Um... The Episcopalian Church is a pro-gay-marriage Christian coalition.  Here's the liturgical rite they adopted in 2012 for same sex unions: http://www.integrityusa.org/doc_download…
You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me on January 1, 2014 at 2:53 AM Report this
38
@36 "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is not a moderate position. Anyone who believes that is fascist troglodyte. Consenting adults have a right to their lives.
ScrawnyKayaker on January 1, 2014 at 1:14 PM Report this
39
It is rare that calling someone a "fascist troglodyte," no matter how wrong he or she is, changes that person's mind. Other approaches have brought many of these hate the sin/love the sinner types to a full(er) acceptance of the equality of LGBT people. There would be no advancements in public opinion on gay rights without such transformations.
s.n.c. on January 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM Report this
40
@36: "Lots of moderate Christians are stuck in a "Hate the sin, love the sinner" viewpoint with the best of intentions, and the more they hear that Christians oppose gay marriage from *both* sides, the more sure they are that as Christians they must oppose it."

You're describing easily-swayed religious fundamentalists, not moderate Christians.
undead ayn rand on January 1, 2014 at 3:57 PM Report this

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