" But it's so devastating. Now I am with a man who loves to fuck another woman"

on board with "kackass."
Dan, you should have stopped at shitshow.

And I think the "you know, if you wanted to cheat it would be fine with me if I just don't know about it. And how 'bout I do the same mmmmkay?" approach does not apply here. She's already a CPOS, if she wants a pass for future affairs, she should own up to this one first. What if the wonderful husband says no? Is she going to stop? If she comes clean after trying that approach, it'll just make her look like an even bigger CPOS. What if the wonderful husband says ok and then - gasp - really loves fucking someone else?! I can't see that one going over too well.

And yeah, the boyfriend on the side is definitely telling his gf "I love you", and probably allowing her out of the house too. There might even be a personality to go with that cute little dancer's body (no!!). She's not the biggest idiot in this game.

There's a third woman that he's not telling either one of you about.
La la la. What a shit show.

To be a hypocrite is to be human. Which means that this woman is one of the most human creatures on the planet.

Hey, if the guy is virulent - ummm, make that virile - enough for two in a row, why not for three? Would love to see the emotional meltdown when she realizes she's not getting sloppy seconds, but dirty thirds.
@4 ftw
I think a rhetorical "soooo... what do you think of cheating? I'm asking... for a friend" conversation will go a long way toward confirming what I imagine the husband already suspects.
Ugh. What a shit show. Dan she tell her husband to DTMFA.
Should tell. Fucking iPhone.
I get the impression this woman is trying to self-sabotage. I feel bad for the thunderous-orgasm-giving husband--here's hoping he's getting something through the backdoor before she sets this shitshow on fire and waves it in his face.
When this whole shiteshow blows up in your face, make sure to tell your kids you are fucking their lives because of OMGFEELINGS you have for somebody else. I'm sure they'll understand.
WLAA -- the guy you are 'dating' sounds similar to several guys I know.

He's bad for you. He likes the power trip you give him. He gets off on the secrecy, he's dishonest to himself about his real desires because it's handy for him on some level or another. I promise you if you try to end this affair (which he keeps cycling through reward/withheld reward cycles -- a great way to control a victim, btw!) he will come up with all kinds of ways to have you wrapped around his finger, and penis in an email or two.

You need away from this guy in a big way. BIG WAY. Shut down whatever email account you have that he uses. If your husband asks, tell him something convincing along the lines of "oh, I used this account for anon web activity, but it's gotten waaaay too spammy to use for even that. ." Change your phone number and make sure you don't import his number into your phone. Set it up to block unlisted numbers from calling or texting you. Again, come up with a believable excuse.

Also, spice up sex with your husband. Your husband loves you, Mr. Loverboy doesn't. He'll tell you whatever he wants to tell you to get at 'dat ass' but he's lying, straight up. Your husband trusts you and wants you by his side. Loverboy only trusts you as far as he's controlling you and wants you underneath him.

Exceise him from your life with extreme prejudice. You'll feel so much more sane in about six months. I promise. With my pinky.
The problem here isn't monogamy: it's a particularly virulent form of narcissistic, delusional "other woman" syndrome.

Not all paramours of marrieds have this syndrome, but some do....

She gets off on being better than the "boring dancer"

If it was all above board and she understood the lover valued his gf, OP would not feel superior.

She has to be better...the woman with the magic pussy and stunning personality.

She's the special snowflake! There can be only one.

If - gasp - her lover puts his public gf before her and actually treats the public gf properly it means that op isn't so special as she thought.

This isn't about the strictures of's about female self image built on being a better lover and partner than a specific competing woman,

This woman isn't EricaP here....OP is all about me, me, me.

Don't even get me started on how she would react if husband was fucking someone else.

Christ, Dan, this woman is a CPOS and a narcicist. Your advice will only make this implode sooner and with more shrapnel hitting innocent parties.
Dear LW's Husband:



@13 -- I definitely see that reading as well, but I still think that Loverboy is an abusive loser and has MADE this situation about that through subtle but effective mental manipulation. There are sparks of a better, confused person in her letter, IMO.
She should divorce hubby and propose to Loverboy. Those two deserve each other.
Fake; if there was a guy who could fuck for 9 hours out of 24 in a day we'd have heard about him and his radioactive nads.
G-zus, what a clusterfuck. LW's husband deserves a lot better than her.
Get tested, for the love of god. Dude is likely sleeping all over the place. If not for yourself, do it for Mr. Thunderous Orgasm. He doesn't deserve a cheating wife and VD.
Christ, what an asshole.
@17 Venom -- I took that to mean snuggling/cuddling/mutual massage/etc. However, if it was straight on screwing for 9 hours... o.O
@15 perhaps he's also a gaslighting asshat. I have seen that as wel IRL.

I wish Dan would realize a few things that jump out at me...maybe he just doesn't have the experience w American women being TOWs to see it.

Who is her letter most focused on - herself, her husband, the lover, or the lover's GF? What does the order of priority here say?

Is the GF a rival, insignificant to her, or necessary collateral damage? Or something else?

Does she see the lover as guilty of any wrong or a victim of his GF?

Does she see herself as guilty of any wrong or a victim? If a victim, of who or what?

Who does OP think are the innocent parties here, if any? How would she rank order the moral and social worth of all parties? Her measure of worth of all parties?

How does the state of her marriage relate to her affiar?

This is a crystal clear to me from what she's written and how she's written her narrative.


I can't tell you about lover boy from this letter. He may or may not be a gaslighting asshat.

I can tell a lot about her, however....

And letter writers always write their narrative from the pov that casts them in the best light...if this is the best she can do, the yikes!

@20 that was my reading as well...

Particularly if he fucked proper GF he's not able to properly fuck her because of it.

So he chose proper GF and her pleasure over OPs pleasure.

She got put in her place as second and she doesn't like it.

Also, we don't know all the ages. 4 times a day at 22 is different than at 52.
@11 I'm sure if she's this clueless, she's not winning any mom of the year awards.
She sounds delusional. I think @13 has the read of it. Her wonderful husband should dump her and take the kids on the grounds that she is ... Jesus, I have some issues, I respect mental health stuff, but at some level it's just a mental clusterfuck.
This is a shitshow, but I can actually see how this can happen without thinking her a total asshole and thinking she doesn't at least deserve the ole college try at finding a way out.

There are lots of things wrong. Shes lying to her husband. Shes lying to herself. Her fuckmate is using the hell out of her. So break it down!

#1 stop fucking him. You are getting off on the approach avoidance of the illicit nature, the danger etc. You need to get your danger thrill in a more sane way. So stop fucking this guy. He doesn't have to be an asshole, fucking other people, if you are in such turmoil that you wrote the letter, stop fucking him.

#2 Don't tell hubby. He might know. He might not want to know. but telling him now before you grow up is going to likely explode unless your hubby is a secret cuckold.

#3 get your danger sex WITH your hubby's knowlege AND help. Ask him about things like swing clubs, threeways, blowing him in the car etc. Ask him HIS sexual fantasies, his real deep and dangerous ones, the ones he's afraid to share with you because... well because. And DO THEM!!!!! SHort of bestiality, permanent harm, etc, DO THEM. Enjoy even more thunderous orgasms and maybe the excitement he will feel might replace the bad but exciting feelings cheating gives you.

When we opened up our relationship, I didn't tell my wife about anything in the past. I did let her know there was a past but more important, there had to be a future where I could get my danger sex with her knowlege and participation if she wanted. It was scary. But after our argument, I called a Dominatrix with her there. And she had fun. Tonight we are deciding if she wants to do two guys in front of me or join another woman in dominating their hubbies {ie me and the other lucky fuck}. And we are living honestly. She knows Istill need to see Dominatrixes and she can't get her head around other parts of my dark desires. But she is happily living out a life she thought would disgust her when we started on the road to honesty or divorce.

I got lucky. You may not. But at least try to be honest and if you get divorced, you know you tried. Because going on like you are doing now, you are going to get divorced as sure as I am going to lick my wife's pussy to thunderous orgasms before some guy shoves his dick in her and fucks her silly.
@7 bingo
I really feel for this woman. I mean, how could two men who say they love her put her in such a difficult position?
@7: I'm kinda thinking that's the point.
Well, I'm glad for the LW's sake that the boyfriend doesn't travel to any other cities. She'd be such a mess if he did.
Also, maybe she needs to get a sex positive therapist instead of the judgmental one she has.

Actually, what really impresses me is that--assuming the Other Woman works regular hours and maybe takes an hour to get ready for work--the boyfriend arrives from the redeye and fucks the Other Woman from 3:00-6:00 AM.
What a shithead. I have no words.
WLAA: You are both assholes. That you built a family around this perfectly avoidable shitpile of a situation- i.e. you could have told your then-boyfriend now-husband monogamy is not your thing before commitment or kids ever became an issue- makes you a bigger asshole than him no matter how many other women he's fucking (and there are at least a few) or how soon he's fucking them before he's scheduled to fuck you. That is all.
It might almost be an interesting intellectual exercise to see if there were any way to convince Husband that LW thought he was trying to hint to her that he longed to be cuckolded above all things, but that might just be a bit too much.

However unpleasant a divorce might be for the children, it cannot be a good thing for them to continue to have LW inflicted upon them until their minorities end. At least a separation immediately, please.
What a shitty shrink. If I had to listen to this bullshit every week, I'd lean over the couch and smack you upside the head with a trout. Holy self-absorbed.
I think it's weird when a therapist tells you to do or not to do something.
Shouldn't he help her figure out what she wants to do? Also this
LW is wasting a ton of energy on this cluster fuck that has nothing to
Do with her kids or her husband really. As a mother of two, I am constantly
Wondering how moms have time for affairs, not to mention all this drama.
If you're gonna do it, only do it if it's easy. That a way you won't neglect
Your family. And your kids will come home for holidays when they grow up.
All three of the people in this shitty love triangle sound like terrible people.
I feel sorry for the kids, they are clearly 3rd or 4th on the list of things that the LW gives a shit about, a couple places behind the gal she's getting sloppy seconds behind.
@38, I'm not sure her kids even rank THAT high.
WTF woman. I don't care if that other bitch looks like Jabba the Hut and has Bill O' Riley's personality, just cause you get to lord over some other woman the knowledge that you've been invited to their partner's dick doesn't mean you're better than them. In fact it says more about you than them that you would even go there. Now to the important part- you have babies?! Damn, you are a stupid bitch. You'd risk the future and feelings of your children (not to mention your relationship with them) to get some on the side? Think about that. Then go over all the awesome things you just said about your husband and compare it to how you've acted while you're at it.
Now I feel that I may have been a bit too harsh, but I do wish the children and husband were featured a bit more prominently. Anyways, just walk away. Hell everyone in this scenario sounds like they'd do well to give each other some distance. While you're away from this clusterfuck nurture the relationships you've taken for granted AND yourself.
"We love each other so much, the passion is so intense."

No, your boyfriend doesn't love you. Your husband probably does, the poor fuck.
Alas, that kind of thoughts and behaviour describe the real-life CPOS women I've met. How they come to hate on their lover's cheated-on partner and to compete with her in their own minds is so depressing.

Hey, girl : you're dickmatized. Jump off that dick for good and most of your problems will be gone.

Then atone for your terminal stupidity of feeling jealousy towards your dick-on-the-side main partner, by not getting any dick-on-the-side for one year straight. Don't worry, you'll still have masturbation and fantasies to help you along.

And then, one year from now, once you've become a better partner than ever and a better mother than ever, have the conversation Dan advised with the husband. But if you want to give both your marriage and nonmonogamy a chance, make sure your husband indeed has had one intense affair, before you ever use his permission to fuck around. Then own up to having formerly been a CPOS, and hopefully he'll pardon you and you both will be non-monogamous ever after.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong... I see three narcissistic people that deserve each other and one person getting totally hosed.

WLAA's therapist is hired by her, so therapist's advice is to keep things in her life okay. That doesn't mean it's good for everybody. Dan also is doing his best for WLAA. She did write to him for advice. I doubt seriously Dan's advice will change anything. It's pretty milk-toast, want-to-have-it-all-ways, like the LW.

This won't end well. The only thing to make it the least painful is for MLAA to confess all. Hubby should know that he's married to a CPOS and can then decide if he's okay with it (and possibly freeing him for his own sexual freedom) or if he wants to waste any more time in a relationship that is a big lie. He deserves someone is that isn't completely selfish, and his kids deserve to be raised by an adult, and not an emotional adolescent.

My BS meter is off the scale on this one. This is written by a delusional straight boy with pretensions.
Why do people say that there are three narcissistic people? I only see two.
The gf and the husband are blameless as far as I can tell.
@13: Don't even get me started on how she would react if husband was fucking someone else.

I think this is a real problem with Dan's advice: she really would not be okay with her husband having a piece on the side.

@47: I'm mystified by that too. Husband and girlfriend, from what's in the letter, are just naive about their partners. Her shrink advised against going nuclear on her husband and in favor of breaking up with someone who causes her to go through these insane mental perambulations, which is... kind of exactly what SLOG and Dan came out with, so I don't get where it makes the shrink sex negative. Any time you're ranting about how wildly inconsiderate it is of your secret piece on the side to fuck his other piece on the side before you can get to the hotel, disengaging would seem sound advice.

Just... wow.

I give it three weeks before she's stalking her piece-on-the-side's girlfriend and killing her pets.
@6 +1

@14 - runner up.

Yikes she is scary. There's a black hole of need.
@49 wins.

@36 I doubt the therapist told her what to do in quite those words. That's what she heard, but then again....

SHIT ketter [sic] writer be crazy SHIT SHIT
@27 wins the Internet today.
Being more serious, I think Dan is largely wrong here--honest nonmonagamy requires being honest with your partner(s) and being accepting of them having the same freedoms you want for yourself, and pretty much the only things we know about LW is that she's incapable of either of those.
I don't know. Maybe being single isn't all that bad.
I can't read this through. I got a paragraph before I'm thinking her next move is to put on adult diapers drive 19 hours straight to wherever the other woman is and threaten her.

What the fuck is wrong with people?
WLAA - if you want to get caught being a CPOS then take Dan's advice and say "So if you ever cheat on me, honey, I don't want to know about it. Just do it discreetly so you don't mess up our marriage and our family life. And I'll do the same." The first words out of your wonderfull, talented tongued husband will be "so who the fuck are you fucking behind my back, bitch?" You'll lie, WLAA, and say "no one" and your hubby will pretend to believe you for about as long as it takes him to download the history from your cell phone, or take a few hours off work to see where the fuck it is you go for six hours in the middle of the day. So if you want to get busted, WLAA, then go ahead and take Dan's advice.

A few other Pinnochioisms I picked up from your letter - "He has fucked her forever without ever once telling her that he loves her". I'm sure he's told you that, i'm also sure he's told that same line to the personalityless dancer's bod chick, and to the other half dozen or so gals he's shagging when he's not with you and the dull dancer. Here's another - "I'm risking so much - the honesty of my marriage". WLAA - the honesty of your marriage evaporated 4 years ago when you shit all over "this wonderful guy, my husband, who I don't want to fuck all the time but who ALWAYS goes down on me and gives me thundering orgasms and is seriously brilliant and insightful and wonderful". And yet another "we love each other so much". I'm sorry, WLAA, but this guy doesn't love you and I don't think you really love him. Actually, it sounds like you don't even know that much about him if you believe his lines of bullshit.

Here's a couple of truths I recall from your letter - "She's an idiot" and "And I'm thinking I'm an idiot". I'd have to say yes on both counts.

Here's what I'd do if I were in your position. First, I'd break all contact with this guy for at least 6 months. After that, if you really want an open marriage, I'd say something like this to your husband while he's in the middle of giving your one of those thundering orgasms "Honey, I think it would be so hot to watch you do this to another woman". Assure him you can handle that and he go the extra step of setting it up for him. Then, after he's had his fun, tell him it's your turn. After that, you might want to take the next steps toward bringing up the open marriage concept to him. However, I have a feeling, WLAA, that if the shoe were on the other foot, you couldn't or wouldn't tollerate your husband banging some other chick, even if she were "dull" like Dancer girl. You'd probably be "SICK WITH JEALOUSY" over the very thought.
@56: if you really want an open marriage, I'd say something like this to your husband while he's in the middle of giving your one of those thundering orgasms "Honey, I think it would be so hot to watch you do this to another woman". Assure him you can handle that and he go the extra step of setting it up for him. Then, after he's had his fun, tell him it's your turn.

That's a scummy way of getting an open relationship. It would still be a huge step up for the LW, though.
@48 IPJ

Given that she's irately jealous over her BFs treating his legitimate partner better than her (I suspect she'd be pissed at anything other than GF being used and deceived and treated badly), there's no way she wants husband to have anyone but her.

She gets off on the superiority and hurting the GF. She gets off on Lover hurting his GF because of her (she's so superior she causes it).

That's why evidence e of BF treating his GF well is so hard for her.

Husband couldn't have an honest OW because there'd be nothing in it to feed OPs ego. And if husband had another woman, it would mean OP wasn't as awesome as she thinks she is.

This is why LW spends so much of her letter trashing GF. She has to for her own self image.

She needs therapy for her selfishness and narcissism. Not an open relationship.

As for her kids, they barely register!

@56 no way this woman will go for that. She wants to be the star, not the audience.
@57: I agree it's a scummy way of getting an open marriage, but she wants to preserve her marriage because she genuinely loves her husband and wants to protect the family, which includes the kiddos. Unfortunately, most of society isn't quite ready for the brutal truth when it comes to issues of sex. I don't see any way for her to tell her husband the real truth, not only about what she's done, but about what she wants for the future - some occassional stray dick, without it ending the marriage. Nobody wins by her being brutally honest here. What does her husband get from brutal honesty? Divorce, hurt, resentment, a broken family. On the other hand, like Dan has said many times, maybe the husband has been thinking of eating out the hot little number over in accounting while he's giving his wife those thunderous orgasms, but he's afraid to bring it up to her because she is such a faithful wife and all. She's in the position she is in, she fucked up, who hasn't? What's the best outcome for everybody?
I think it would be totally awesome if we found out that WLAA's husband was fucking the dancer . . . oh wait . . . this is not a soap opera . . .
@61 - it would be even awesomer if we found out the WLAA's husband was getting fucked by her out of town lover and that the out of town lover actually told WLAA's husband everytime he fucked him that he did indeed love him!!!
@ 60: I don't see any way for her to tell her husband the real truth, not only about what she's done, but about what she wants for the future - some occassional stray dick, without it ending the marriage.

The problem is, that's not what she actually wants--she's already getting that, and she's still miserably unhappy because her stray dick is also getting some stray pussy. She's so miserable that she's obsessing about the other man's other woman, and obsessing about the sex life they have. "Stray dick without destroying her marriage" is not what she wants.

Nobody wins by her being brutally honest here.

There's a huge gap between brutal honesty and pulling the "you agreed to do X for me, so that means you consent to me doing Y" bullshit; that's a scummy thing to do. People who do that rightly look down on people like the LW, but they're still treating their partners shittily and dishonestly.

Honesty doesn't have to be brutal. Asking for an open relationship doesn't have to be deceptive, even if it doesn't come with disclosure of past infidelities. If you're going to take a threesome as a license to sleep around--and to coerce your partner into accepting it--you need to tell your partner that before the threesome happens. Not after. That's not how consent works.

She's in the position she is in, she fucked up, who hasn't?

Most people don't fuck up the way LW has, because it's actually very easy to not be that much of a shitbag. She could be honest about it, or she could conceal it and try for an egalitarian open relationship for which she's completely unsuited. Coercing her husband into a fake "open" relationship is the worst of all possible worlds. Or, she could just stop fucking other men and get some more and better therapy, because "monogamy is hard" is not actually the issue she's having. The issue she's having is that she's a narcissist on a power trip.

What's the best outcome for everybody?

She gets some therapy focused on how she can stop being so shitty, rather than on how to get what she wants while avoiding the consequences, and then stops being so shitty. All of her problems after that will disappear.
@ABW: It must be said, that's an impressive bit of forensic psychology you've laid down here.
@61--It's not?
@65: No, soap operas have more sympathetic characters. Even the villains have something going for them.

...I say this from a position of great authority, as someone who once watched nearly fifteen minutes of a soap opera.
@63 - I'd have to disagree, I think all people make mistakes in life. Some make bigger mistakes than others, but everybody makes mistakes and most of our biggest mistakes in life involve something of a sexual nature. I think that WLAA knows she's selfish, and I think she was conscious of how silly and selfish her feelings came across in her letter, that's why she was writing it. She was being honest about her selfishness and her feelings, at least in her letter. She knows she shouldn't feel that way, but she does. I give her credit for recognizing that.
I always wondered how really attractive people that everyone wants to fuck all the time stay monogamous. I suspect they just don't.

Can any hotties out there chime in? I mean, if I was such a smoking piece of ass that sex was pretty much offered up regularly I think I would eventually, at least in weak moments, succumb to temptation. Being an extremely flawed human being and all.

Good thing all I have is my wonderful personality.
What a stupid, hypocritical nutbag.
On a serious note, I really do not think that WLAA is looking for advice. WLAA is completely narcissistic and enjoys the attention she gets by letting everyone know just how clever she is (she has pulled off this affair for 3+ plus years!). She is like one of those serial killers that taunts the police by sending anonymous notes like "You can't catch me"; then ends the letter with "I feel . . . utterly alone" attempting to manipulate the readers into feeling sympathy for her and empathize with her. If this were a just world, the husband would dump the CPOS, take the children to be raised in a healthy emotional environment (WLAA cannot be any kind of effective and caring parent as she spends so much time agonizing over her affair) and finally when WLAA is alone she can realize her "Fatal Attraction" fantasy; which in the movie ended in death. A little harsh perhaps but that is my two cent, dime store, (one semester class) psychological overview and opinion.
@ 68: I mean, if I was such a smoking piece of ass that sex was pretty much offered up regularly I think I would eventually, at least in weak moments, succumb to temptation.

My time as a hottie was relatively brief and a long time ago, but that's not really what happens--if sex is offered up regularly, what happens is that you get very choosy, not that you start fucking everything that moves. It's like cars--if you can't afford more than one car, you might think that people with lots of money would want to buy every car they see, but they mostly don't.

@ 67: I'd have to disagree, I think all people make mistakes in life. Some make bigger mistakes than others, but everybody makes mistakes and most of our biggest mistakes in life involve something of a sexual nature.

The problem with your framing is that the LW didn't make a mistake, she made a series of incredibly selfish decisions, and then decided to lie about it. For years.

"I've accidentally been doing this thing for years, and lying about it for years" is not a mistake.

She knows she shouldn't feel that way, but she does. I give her credit for recognizing that.

I know, and she knew it too, which is presumably why she couched her bad behavior in terms of "monogamy is hard" rather than "I'm a disgusting vortex of crazy needs and bad behavior." But saying "My behavior is shitty, but I'm doing nothing to change it and nothing to keep it from hurting other people" doesn't actually win her a pass. Recognizing it only earns her credit if that recognition makes her do anything different, and it obviously isn't.
@68: I've always suspected that a man's probability of success at monogamy is inversely proportional to the number of options he is presented with.
@64. I could be totally wrong, but having handled hundreds of divorces and seeing people like this over and over, you learn to spot the difference between people who just make mistakes, people who want open relationships and aren't cut out for monogamy, and narcissistic CPOSs.

I could be totally wrong. But isn't part of the fun of the comments sections speculating?

Everyone here pretty much always reads into the letters. I'm just doing this from a different perspective - but it's not one based on my own biases. It's based on my professional experience.

I could frankly not care less if this women reads anything I write. This is about throwing ideas out for the commenters.

You do notice I'm not addressing her, don't you?

If she were asking me for advice, I wouldn't be so harsh, but I would not let her get away with shifting blame onto the fact she's not cut out for monogamy.


For the record, I would be happiest in a society where bisexuality and monogamish relationships were the norm. I find that ideal.

It's not about that, though, it's about how she's framing her problem.

This is, after all, the narrative as she presents it, which is almost always more favorable to her than actual reality.
@72 - That's true for women as well. I've studied a lot about pre-Western Native American civilizations. Quite a few of them viewed women's sexuality as natural and valued. Women slept around as much, if not more, than men.

It's all cultural.
@68--From one wonderful personality to another, I take great comfort in the fact that I can pass judgment on the goings-on of the beautiful and non-monogamous. It is my moral superiority alone that prevents me from succumbing to similar temptation, and I lose no time in shaming those who are not as enlightened as I am. Those who accuse me of envy are just jealous of my advanced spiritual state.

Now excuse me, I have to go arrange my hair in a practical and severe style, lace up my bonnet, and practice my disdainful sniffs.
@68: Actually when science asked the question "So are people who cheat just insanely hot?" the answer was no. They're totally average. If people want to cheat, and are at least sorta adequate in the general attractiveness categories (at least to someone), they manage it. That chinless guy slinging burgers at the drive-thru? He's managing to cheat on one girlfriend with two other girls and the occasional third.

Being attractive and interesting enough to attract one partner is generally a sign that you could attract other partners. (See Dan's advice about trying to remain reasonably fit and attractive when pairing off, in part so your partner will view you as someone other people would want, who is desirable and has options.)

Also what Eudaemonic said: having a lot of options means you can be choosy.
@68 - I'll probably get in trouble for letting you in on the secret that us "smoking hot pieces of ass" all know, but I'll chime in anyway since you seem like a nice person. On our 18th brithdays, we smoking hot pieces of ass are implanted with a computer chip that sends out an electric impulse to all the other smoking hot pieces of ass when we approach each other. Without this implanted chip we smoking hot pieces of ass might accidently have sex with a run of the mill "hot piece of ass" by mistake.

So here is how it works. When we approach each other on the street our implanted chips communicate with each other and and set up random encounters. The smoking hot piece of ass club has set up sex rooms all over the place in major metropolitan areas. When our chips communicate with each other we are automatically directed to one of these sex rooms. The chip sends a signal to the door and when we approach we just walk in and jump into the smoking hot pieces of ass sex orgy that is going on.

Of course, @68, you'd have no way of knowing this because you're not a smoking hot piece of ass. The reason it's a secret is because we don't want the "less than smoking hot pieces of ass" to get all bummed out over how great we have it. So, you see, we're keeping the secret for the benefit of your feelings, not ours.

You're welcome.
She says virtually nothing about her kids. As a mom, I find that telling. And not in a good way.
Plus she's so upset about this dude having sex with his primary girlfriend before he has sex with her? Gee, I wonder if SHE ever had sex with him then went home to her unwitting hubby for a little cuddle time?
Yuck. Just all-around yuck on this lady.
This woman isn't cut out for polyamory OR monogamy.
She doesn't call herself on her own irrational jealousy.
She gets upset about the details of her lover's relationship with the other (primary) girlfriend when she her primary relationship is (or should be) with her husband.
A more ethical (but still dishonest) CPOS would be clear about which relationships need to be first & which need to take second place.

What she REALLY wants is to have her choice of multiple partners who are all giving her primacy. At some basic instinctive level that's what we all really want I suppose. Nevertheless, failing to recognize that as impossible between people who are treating each other as respected equals and deal with those feelings accordingly rather than blindly following them is evil.

WLAA - get thee to a nunnery.
"Dancer's body" appears in the post a couple of times, and suddenly an ad for ChopShopDance "Bodies of Work" is in the sidebar. Thanks, Google Ads!
>It's like cars--if you can't afford more than one car, you might think that people with lots of money would want to buy every car they see, but they mostly don't.

That's likely not a very good analogy.

Dan's advice hinges on the presumption that this woman has the maturity and emotional intelligence to have such a conversation with her husband, let alone make an open marriage work. Her letter is proof that she possesses neither. And she's kind of a fucking idiot for not realizing that she, not the girlfriend, is the "other woman." She's gone through life being "hot and all that" and has never put anyone else's needs ahead of her own. Those poor kids are fucked, and that husband of hers is probably going to be crushed when this all blows up in her face. Here's hoping he gets full custody and is able to get away from her special brand of crazy before too long.
this is totally going to blow up in both their faces. something is going to happen equal to that sinkhole with all the corvettes and all the orgasms are going to stop for everybody. and to be honest, the sooner it does, the better. the poor kids.
This gal's going to be SO embarrassed when she realizes her rambling diary entry somehow got e-mailed to an advice column.
Gee, I wonder what real life situation was used as the framework to write this letter Danno?

I know it isn't the standard business practice to just run with the real life details, and that changing seemingly insignificant details is standard practice which I guess is done to protect anonymity, but that is probably the dumbest logic I have ever heard if the purpose of the letter and every idiot's reply to it, is to give the real life person some insight that could possibly help their real life situation.

Oh well, that is par for the course for idiots, and it is what it is, although it is a damn shame since there are so many cases of idiocy that could be so easily remedied if only the idiots would simply choose to walk through life awake as opposed to holding your arms like you're balancing a yard stick otherwise known as the classic, dipshit, sleep walkers walking position

How the fuck can anybody be so foolish as to think they understand what love is, yet be in this situation and see it as a major dilemma?

How the fuck can anybody be in the business of counseling people on sound strategery on living happily, continue to run a profitable counseling business and not explain to their client a much more accurate and real definition of Love.

The letter writer is either the world's biggest asshole, or doesn't even begin to comprehend what Love looks like in real life as opposed to theorized, ivy league debate team, pissing contest win prioritizing, stupid punk assed white male and the women who buy into that "good life" lie sold to them by the better looking, more musically inclined, mirror image of the ultra conservative Jesus freak cousin.

If you recognize how destructive one of the idiot relative's philosophy of life, love and living is not only to themselves, but also destructive to society as a whole, why in Jesus Motherfucking Christ's Good name would a person decide to buy into the exact same philosophy from the equal and opposite idiot's philosophy?

It's like the people who are so sick of living in a society with belief's based are so many lies and false notions yet instead of deciding to create a community with beliefs based on truth and real truisms decides to trade in the flawed beliefs and bigotry for brand new lies and fresh, shiny new prejudices

Until the day arrives that a person truly desires to understand how wonderful, amazingly satisfying and content of a life that living can perpetually be when one understands what the concept of Love actually means, said person, people, community or mankind in general will continue to sadly, pathetically and miserably continue on their journey toward death

and doing it poetically or in ways that make for an interesting movie doesn't make it any less pathetic, miserable, or sad

I couldn't give shit about idiots who choose to fuck themselves, my stomach turns because every single one of these idiots and the idiots that believe them fail to realize where they are, where they live, and most importantly WHO they are

the name Earth, is just facade, it isn't any different then calling the whole fucking planet Egypt

anything and everything including a person's wildest dreams and more are achievable -- even if said wilds included kinkier sex with an exponentially greater number of people -- yet the fear of it translates to world that full of idiot angels, stupid fucking over privileged whiny and ugly punk ass white men, psychologists doctors and automechanics who suck at what they do for a living and should be paid anything as their profession except for counseling, healing sick people or fixing cars

Thank God there are countless other houses other than the House of Human Beings for your dumb asses to live in, otherwise we'd probably torch the earth, which is called Heaven, just like we had to do the moon.

I don't care what anybody says, I hate to be a told you so, but I told you this was a dumb fucking endeavor, I can count on one hand how many more people decided to wake up and live in House this time around as opposed to last time, what a profitable seven thousand years it's been

fuck you slog admins, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, as that may block my foot from the swift kick I've been waiting to give you with my Matterhorn steel toed boots

you ignorant, piss poor advice givers, bigoted liberals, and poly nazi dipshits,

good riddence


God Bless

your *pal


*sarcasm, go fuck your selves

and fuck you fat oil elephant (the dean of the editorial cartooning profession)
@86: Apparently, one bag of popcorn won't be enough for this LOTD. Please. DO go on...
@86: Thank you for the lugubrious rant, Dusty. Now if I just knew what a "fat oil elephant" is?
@ABW: I wasn't being sarcastic.
This is rare..... I went from "pretty sure this girl is a victim of some serious mind games" to 'yep, she's a piece o' trash."

I think I leveled up my scumbag detector. Thanks sloggers!
@ 90: It could be both. But the fact that she spends most of her letter expressing her fury at people who are--by her own description--treating her either a lot better than she's treating them, or pretty much the same as she's treating them, is a strong hint.
Attention Nurse, isn't it time for Dusty's electroshock therapy?
@62: What if the husband IS the dancer?

Really, I see the LW as the idiot. We don't know enough about the dancer or the guy. If the guy is making no pretenses about fucking multiple, I don't see how that can be held against him (remember, we are reading through the LW's filter). And the dancer may be totally OK with the guy fucking the LW and the countless others he is no doubt screwing. In fact, it would surprise me if the dancer and the guy are laughing at the LW (which might be a shitty thing to do but I don't feel much sympathy for the LW).

I love how the early comments nail the fact that she thinks of herself as so much better than the dancer. Way to think that, you CPOS. And leave your husband and kids (doing them a favor) but keep in mind that the guy will continue to fuck other people even if the brilliant you take care of him like the dullard dancer. You are not all that to him. Trust me (and all these other commenters).

I couldn't really make out the signature, so I just guessed, it almost looks like it is signed "OuiP+ANT"

he's just another fuckwit from Uclick Universal
For any who might be giving the male piece on the side a pass, remember he's fed the LW a few lines: -the ONLY reason he's sleeping with the hot-bodied dancer is because he can't have the LW; -the hot-bodied dancer, though, is dull, so LW can still maintain a superior air; -and the best line, "I've never told her I love her ... you're the only one for me, babe".

What would the LW really like? Well, the first thing is to keep ALL of her possessions in separate cubbyholes so she can take out her husband from one for him to satisfy her MagicPussy. The second is so that her piece on the side is ALWAYS available to her - and only HERRRRRRR - because only she has that MagicPussy. And she's so scintillating, despite not having a hot body.

Who knows, she might even take her kids out of their tiny cubbies ... just so she can dust them off.

I'm definitely against Dan's advice here. If the LW had any sense, she'd figure out there are ways to make monogamy work. How about renting a room in a hotel, arrive alone, change into something slightly slutty and go down to pick up a stranger at the bar - the stranger who will actually be her husband. Then the pretend stranger follows her up to her room and they fuck in a way that would belie that they've done it before. In fact, the hotel sex could be the place where they try new things.

It may not be the thrilling non-monogamy she's missing, but OTOH she'll never have to feel jealous about the other woman!
@86: I was trying to say, and I caught her, trying to say, and she screamed and I was trying to say and trying arid the bright shapes began to stop and I tried to get out. I tried to get it off of my face, but the bright shapes were going again.
@95: He gets a pass because the wife is both dumb and crass enough to believe it.

She's pretty insulated from anything involving sense, so it's hard to sympathize with liars getting lied to and hungering after the defeat of her romantic rival.

I expect her to get pulled over by the cops, in diapers, driving over to her lover's girlfriend's place to "sort things out".
LW seriously needs a hobby.
@68 I got more attention when I was a size 10 with horrible near disfiguring rosacea in combat boots compared to now as a size 2 with my rosacea under control and a closet full of pumps and heels.
shitty advice.

Dan's slacking
Dan's advice sucks so much ass on this one.

The answer is to deceive and manipulate the husband even more? You know, because of the children.

Divorce can be hard on kids but it isn't the end of the world (I know, my parents were divorced when I was young). Better she tell him the whole thing in a planned way vs him finding out accidentally and having a meltdown in front of the kids, possibly hurting himself or the CPOS in the process.

But no, let him continue to be exposed to STDs while satisfying the CPOS with oral. Shit she probably gets off knowing he's tasting the boyfriend's swimmers.

I get that Dan's pushing the monogamish stuff pretty hard these days but there's nothing wrong with that, if it's entered into honestly.

I get a slip-up can happen in any monogamous LTR, but there's a difference between a moment of weakness and a committed three-year affair.

If the genders were switched I don't think "trick your wife into accepting your affair while you continue to cheat" would have been the advice.

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