Comments
Please wait...
Comments are closed.
Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.
Editors' Picks
is a proud member of the
media network
media network
All contents © Index Newspapers LLC
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
Shocking.
The irony is soooo delicious. Mmmmmm. Yummy. To bad the servings will only last for one term.
I think you lost me there.
"Concessions by our side at this stage, when no actual counter-proposal is in play, will only strengthen the hand of big business." This seems to be the key here. You disagree with this statement, feeling that making a concession will broaden her support enough to be worth it. She feels that making a concession will not increase support enough to outweigh the fact that she's given something up for no concessions from the opposition.
Sawant is right that she shouldn't negotiate with reporters about concessions to her proposal. That will allow her to approach a political compromise from her starting position rather than building a dozen compromises in from the start. It will help her get a lot closer to what she wants in the end.
It's a lesson which many politicians on the left could learn. If you grant concessions before you start to negotiate all you've done is shift the playing field to the right.
Period
Negotiate higher
If they say drop to 12 you say $16/hour
Never surrender!
Please tell me what leverage Sawant and her cult of personality have to negotiate with.
"We need to seriously look into taxing big developers, big business, and the super-wealthy to subsidize the costs of going to $15/hour if small operations cannot afford it right away."
That's pretty specific. It's completely unrealistic and absolutely impossible for the City of Seattle to do, but it's specific.
Her problem isn't lack of specificity. Her problem is that when she gets specific, she's exposed as somebody who has no idea what she's doing.
For the record, I support a responsible but aggressive phase in plan. I said in a previous post that I am fine with the possible loss of some businesses because I don't believe one thing will make or break a viable well run business. I still believe that and support a phase in.
if your business model is predicated on the fact that you get to pay... say, less than 10 employees or so a fucking pittance, well, all i can say is that doing so is an indicator of the respect you put in your MOST VALUABLE resource. because biz 101 teaches us that labor is the most valuable resource, right?
if you can't bump your labor costs to this level and still pay your bills, check your biz model. if you can't bump labor costs and keep the "lifestyle to which you've become accustomed to", well, then... check your attitude and your expectations for owning a small biz that requires employees.
capitalism. it provides no guarantees for those who choose to cast their lines. if times are tough out there, it should be on YOU motherfucker, not the good folks who signed up to help you out with hopes to do the best they can... after they pay their inflated rent and families' expenses.
At this point, she is correct. The opening salvo is the demand for $15.00/hr. the next move is the counter offer. Then there is a conversation that can proceed from there.
I'm not necessarily opposed to a phase in, assuming the beginning new wage represents a substantial wage increase. I would encourage a large tax holiday for small businesses. For instance, perhaps small businesses could be allowed to keep a large percentage of the sales taxes they collect, with the amount they can keep diminishing as the $15.00 wage is phased in.
For instance, in year one the minimum is raised to $12.00 and a small business keeps 60% of the sales tax collected, then $13.00 and 40%, then $14.00 and 20% and finally the goal $15.00, with an extra year 20%. Or perhaps small business is given a two or three year B&O tax holiday.
There are reasonable conversations to be had, but it is not up to Sawant to begin the negotiations. It is however imperative that she negotiate in good faith when the negotiation actually begins.
@ 5, 7 The right wing has cost the Senate for the GOP in 2010, and 2012, and could in 2014. They seem to lose and lose.
I am proud of Obama he finally achieved health care reform after Presidents have been trying for 100 years. Policy change in this country comes in incremental posts. "I think we see a $12 minimum wage when this is all said and done.
Dominic, that strikes me as perfectly easy to understand, and a perfectly sensible negotiating position. No part of that says "I am refusing to have a conversation about phase-in." If you're offended that she's not inclined to negotiate with _you_, then you need to get over yourself.
So, she doesn't represent the thousands of small, family-owned businesses in this city too?
Of the 11 city-wide officials elected last November, Sawant ranks 10th votewise.
And why isn't Goldy reporting on this? This is his beat.
Oh yeah, he got fired today. Probably earned a wage that was too high, so got axed by Keck in support of the proletariat.
Look, she's already loosing the Stranger writers, one of her biggest supporters in the election. What's that if not strengthening the hand of big business?
Paul is 100% right in this post. By make this an argument of two false arguments, who wins but big business?
The Stranger writers must be tired of getting an earful from their small business buddies on Cap Hill.
The world is divided up into monolithic blocks of people. I'm sure lots of business owners have lots of different ideas, just like lots of workers do. Hell the two people I argue most about this with are people who make near minimum and oppose raising it.
Good council members actually listen to ideas and craft good policy based on it. Especially when you've already fucking won on the main point. They don't dig in their heels and pick stupid fights.
Fuck her. I'll vote for whoever the hell runs against her at this point.
Various organizations, the players, for instance Small Business Owners, Chamber of Commerce, what have you, they can say, "We think the minimum wage should increase this much, over this amount of time. A bill like that, we would throw our support behind." That would be negotiation! If they _don't_ say that, they are saying implicitly, that they think that the status quo is good policy.
Do _you_ think the status quo is good policy, Dominic? If not, you should wield your "propose good policy" argument against the players who are not saying anything. But I suspect you think the status quo _is_ good policy. You should work up the nerve and just say so -- you'd have plenty of support here on SLOG. Until you find that courage, your posts on this issue are just long-form concern trolling.
We are agreed. $17/hour.
Nice negotiating with you.
Jump the minimum wage to $10.60 immediately, then every six months, to 11.70, 12.80, 13.90, and finally, $15. The phase-in would allow consumer spending, and hence demand, to rise along with wages.
You don't attain your goals by negotiating with yourself, unless your goal is to protect the status quo. (See Obama, Barack.)
Good policy is good policy.
That should be the goal.
My suggestion would be $15/hour immediately for big companies and franchises. Phase in a higher wage over time for small businesses, and allow tip credits or other benefits as part of the calculated wage. Index all wages to inflation or housing costs, whichever is higher.
This gives a short term competitive advantage for small local businesses and more time and flexibility to make adjustments.
Just wondering -- has Tim Keck ever shot a dog?
Maybe the Stranger should go back to being an arts newspaper. Your forays into politics are just so embarrassing.
I find this hilarious. Suddenly socialists just love cold hearted capitalism when it means the awful greedy old small cafe that can't afford a government mandated 85% labor increase all at once and has to go out of business and lay off its employees. Weaklings! Yeah. Change yur bizniz modul, loozrz!
It's exactly the same wrong headed logic Mc Donald's uses. Hey, the workers can't handle poverty wages--- get another job,man. It's capitalism!
For fuck sake. The entire point if interfering in the market and raising the minimum wage in first place is to take the wanton sting out of the capricious whims of capitalism.
I'm guess all you morons who say shit like this have never owned a business.
Well. I have. I do. And I'm for the $15 minimum wage. But it can't be done all at once and there has to be exemptions and exceptions. That's the fucking point. Not leaving everything up to the magical market. Pedirosso Cafe is not Subway. Okay.
It's small businesses that make our community. It's small businesses that add to our culture. They deserve the same consideration and compassion workers do. That's the whole point.
I do not expect, in the end, that she will be uncompromising.
I do expect that she will upset many people, people and situations that need upsetting.
I do not expect her to win a second term.
I do expect things to be a little different, in a more populist way, when she's done.
It can be helpful from a councilmember, it's stagnating from an executive.
I don't think Dominic advocating moderation in tactics or Goldy leaving is Tim Keck pulling a Blethen and interfering with editorial direction under advertising pressure from people like the Meinerts of the world. If it is, to hell with Tim Keck, and the Meinerts and Blethens of the world. The city is no longer yours.
I swear. The good is he enemy of the perfect with you people. It's god damned fanatical.
https://twitter.com/GoldyHA/status/44143…
http://horsesass.org/?p=53102
Dominic clearly fell in line to keep his job by spinning this Kshama Sawant piece into making absolutely no sense -- she clearly did not say she would say "no" to phasing in $15/hour. She should absolutely say "no" to exemptions to childcare workers, social workers, and bar/restaurant workers who happen to work for Dave Meinert, though.
I feel for Dominic, Paul, and others. They either have to lie and distort against the minimum wage increase, or they get fired. In the mean time, everyone else should show your disapproval for Tim Keck (owner of the The Stranger) by turning on Adblock Plus at the very least. http://adblockplus.org And of course, never again go to Lost Lake, Big Mario's, or the Five Point.
Meanwhile, Tim Keck and Dave Meinert get richer and richer while they sleep, because of hardworking people who they pay poverty wages.
Best of luck to Goldy and his family -- more victims of money-hungry sociopaths who will stop at nothing to grow their bank accounts.
I'm for $15 but I also know the realities of running a business. I agree that a business that can't pay its worker a living wage has a questionable business model. But as you pointed out...
1. People who get tips and commissions can make $15+ without a $15 min. flat wage.
2. Businesses need time to adjust so that they can figure out how to be viable. If they can't adjust then we may lose them. But they deserve time to try.
3. Non-profits can't just "raise their prices" and some people may be ok working at less than $15/hr because of the kind of work they are doing.
4. Government services need to tackle the revenue side as they tackle increased costs.
What Sawant doesn't seem to realize is that the only clout she has in any "negotiation" is the support of the people and her attitude is clearly chipping away at that. As much as she wants to frame this as an "us against them" argument, it isn't. This is one of the reasons unions lost their power. They became as unreasonable as the corporations and the corporations could point to their obvious inflexibility and so they lost the backing of the people (yes, I know that's a simplification, but nonetheless true).
She's meant to be taking a leadership position in this and she is in a position to do just that. Instead she's acting like she's a helpless protester standing in front of a tank.
I'd like to think it was because he disingenuously made Sawant out to be a sane "Bernie Sanders" style socialist instead of a privileged, sheltered Brahmin who's just now making her debut in the real world.
You've probably already found this by now but...
http://horsesass.org/?p=53102
Suddenly we have a change of tune. Makes me wonder if @58 isn't on to something.
How much of your own money are you chipping in to make sure everyone gets a "living wage"?
How many people are you employing and providing health insurance?
How many mouths are you feeding?
"Thank you for reaching out to speak about xxxxxxx, and sorry that it has taken so long for me to reply.
As an activist and a City Councilmember, I recognize there are many important issues that need immediate attention. For my office, our priorities continue to be building a movement for a $15/hour minimum wage, fighting for affordable housing and taxing the super-rich to pay for public transportation and education. In addition, I am fighting against regressive surcharges and rate increases as chair of the Seattle City Light Committee.
Unfortunately, there is only so much time in the week and only so many meetings I can participate in. Since the day we took office, we have been inundated with requests to attend meetings, almost all of them are on issues that we support, but we are simply too busy to accept most of them.
Please continue to reach out to us, and we will continue to reach out to you. Thank you for getting in touch."
we elected her to legislate, not march in the streets. sheesh.
Seriously, I'm sick of the artificial land development market, pitches for more public gifts for the DSA, and how rich people are inconvenienced by poor people in some bullshit way.
I think they should build vertical slums downtown for the techies, as high as the sky, packed in like little drunk self absorbed rats, go for it.
The false fighting and mouthed concern for people in a 1 mile radius of city Hall is tired, played out politically.
We broke up the band, districts 2 and 7, party is over, here is your present, Sawant.
The small business community is saying we should raise the minimum wage, probably to $15, we should identify the trade offs, accept some, mitigate for others. The employers are not arguing against raising the minimum wage. When you hear the fear they are responding to Sawant's extreme dogma. A few days ago we were being told we're crazy and exaggerating $15Now's position because 'of course they support phase ins" Now it's clear we were correct, and Sawant and $15 Now is pushing an inflexible, dogmatic position. Their fear is justified.
Local businesses are bought into the Mayor's process, listening to all sides, negotiating, and holding off from a dogmatic position in order to honestly figure out how to do this in a way that works for most.
I challenge everyone to listen, learn, and be open to compromise.
The alternative is we have an initiative battle between $15 now across the board and $12.50 phased in over 3 years with a tip credit. Polling favors the $12.50. And many people who want to get to $15 with flexibility would end up supporting $12.50 because it's less bad than $15Now.
So for the people who don't want the status quo, who want to save small business who care about human services, and the arts, and want to support higher wages and better lives for workers, let's listen, learn, and get this right.
Yeah, thanks, I wandered over there. Dan Savage can be amusing and brilliant, but Goldy's posts were the must-reads for me.
So is CM Sawant wrong when she says you haven't come to the table with a counter-proposal, that you're making all your counter-proposals elsewhere for public consumption?
Dave Meinert & Tim Keck thinks that gap isn't large enough, and want a separate lower minimum wage for these mostly female workers.
This is why nobody listens to you. Stick to backroom deals like the slimy fucks you are. Public opinion will never sway to your side as long as sociopath white male supremacists are in the minority.
Ya'll be pieces of shit.
"Local businesses are bought into the Mayor's process, listening to all sides, negotiating, and holding off from a dogmatic position in order to honestly figure out how to do this in a way that works for most.
I challenge everyone to listen, learn, and be open to compromise."
Unless its listening to Sawant's position. No, that's economic dogma!
See, that's why you're such a piece of shit, Meinert. We're still in the "listening to all sides" portion of this debate, not the "let's make concessions" portion. For fucks sake, the mayor and a third of the council were not even there tonight! Who is she supposed to be making concessions and compromises with when the entire party HASN'T EVEN ARRIVED?
Please, tell me.
Telling people that $15/hour will "kill the culture of the Hill", like you told CHSblog, isn't dogmatic? Okay... (how's the Comet remodel coming by the way?)
For all those businesses that want a gradated hike to $15, here's how you do it: Start now. Nothing's preventing you from beginning to raise up to $15 now. Nothing. If you're shitty enough to pay poverty wages now, go ahead and bump your employees' salaries up a dollar or so today. If you're so concerned about a swift bump up to $15 and you're not doing anything right now to prepare for it, then that's not smart, is it?
If he WAS fired, then the fact that he didn't want to say because it would seem stupid would seem to indicate that Goldy did something REALLY fucking dumb. People who are fired unjustly - especially people who love talking as much as he does - would want to talk about it. But I think impulsive resignation is more likely.
$12.50/hr by 2018 barely keeps up with the mandated state minimum. It's treading water and gets the folks working for you for shit wages now nowhere closer to a living wage. A living wage is the whole point of this discussion, not simply a magic number like $15. The salary you live on isn't dependent on whether you work at a restaurant (or whether you own it) or work at an arts organization or whether you work at a non-profit. Your workers' needs don't magically change when they move from working at a small business to a large business or vice versa. That's why this talk of exemptions based on the business you own is irrelevant.
We need a plan that gives people back their lives. Your plan is simply the status quo. Maybe even worse, since it starts creating more tiers of exempted workers. Ask servers how shitty their jobs are now with the current exemptions for tipped employees. Your exemptions adds on new classes of workers who the boss can pay less and who can be treated like shit. That's not a solution.
Yes, it is likely that we may need to do some sort of phase in. It would be smart policy to consider issues of very small businesses and non-profits.
But you don't start a negotiation by giving in. You're advocating the Obama approach to the healthcare overhaul. The democrats gave up single-payer before the republicans even started to negotiate. Sure, we were probably never going to get single-payer passed, but the democrats gave up too much too early, and we are left with basically an insurance mandate with a bit of subsidies. Better than nothing, but a far cry from universal healthcare.
Sure, I expect we'll end up with a phase in, but your demand that she concede this point now is just shitty negotiating strategy.
You, Dominic, obviously don't.
I think what we've seen from her political career so far is that she knows what the hell she's doing.
http://crosscut.com/2014/01/21/seattle/1…
"This Brighton precinct is 95percent non-white, and among Seattle’s poorest. Seattle’s poor do not especially like taxes. This pattern applies not only to regressive bag taxes, but also to school levies, transit funding, and even propositions on social services for the poor. In Seattle, Tim Eyman's "two-thirds on taxes" laws poll best with the very wealthy and the very poor."
It's the dark under belly of working for Tim that us long time Hill dwellers and observers when we've left have noticed.
I'm guessing this is where she would like the conversation regarding how we get to $15 begin.
The most common problem with the uber idealists is that human ego leads them to believe that they are the embodiment of a movement. It is the root of corruption that has made communism fail in every instance. No single person embodies anything. People in leadership positions that think they do are called dictators.
Nah. That couldn't be it.
End of day, I think a deal will be made, and we end up with a plan that moves the minimum wage to $15 with elements of phase in and total compensation. If that means Sawant wants to run her initiative, she can. It will lose on a ballot against an initiative supported by the majority of Council, the Mayor, parts of labor, small business, social services, The Stranger and The Seattle Times.