The study on other increases in minimum wage studied small increases. And the researchers specifically said that their conclusions could not be extrapolated to the $15Now proposal because it is such a larger increase.

As for tipped workers living in poverty, ALL your data on that comes from outside of Seattle. Can you show us data on how many full time tipped workers in Seattle live in poverty when their tips are counted? Using data from places where the tipped minimum wage is $2 is not applicable to this discussion.

@meinert
Maybe you should take a step back from this for a bit.
You had an official rebuttal to this article posted at 4:24. Which, weirdly, was the time the article you were rebutting was posted, which seems to imply that you now have editorial access to this paper. Yet even then, you cant wait more than 20 minutes to post a smaller rebuttal in the comment section of this article.
Maybe you should take a week off. You seem way too deep in this, and it makes your advocacy seem a little off.

@2 I am assuming the stranger published both at the same time, after inviting Jess and David to write what they knew they other was going to say.

to respond to what they knew*

But Dave, if your argument is accurate then the $2.13 minimum wage doesn't effectively exist anywhere? I guess this is an admission that the tip penalty system is rife with opportunities for wage theft.

The studies you cite, what do they define a tipped worker as? I.E. Are baristas and subway employees tipped workers?

@1: The percentage of tipped workers in Seattle who live in poverty is no doubt lower than those outside of Seattle because Seattle has no tip penalty. That's exactly the point: The tip penalty leads to greater poverty levels for tipped employees. Are you really that stupid or just full of shit?

@Jess what role do you see tipping playing in a persons wage? I.E. The stongest argument for tipping is tip workers depend on it. The solution your pushing has service workers not depending on tips, so how does the relationship between the server and customer change?

@1 - I find it hard to believe you all haven't looked at the study done on Santa Fe's increase, which was 65%.

But here it is: http://bber.unm.edu/pubs/SFLWpt3.pdf

Key point for your industry: "Most unexpectedly, employment change in accommodations and food services is positive after the LWO (living wage ordinance) relative to Albuquerque."

As for my data on tipped workers coming entirely from outside Seattle? Says who? You?

Maybe you missed this: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

@1 No, they didn't. They discussed the Santa Fe studies as well, which was above our proposed 62% increase. It's also disingenuous to say that they couldn't extrapolate. They said that their data could not be compared above $10.74, San Francisco's minimum wage that they were studying, but could be compared to Santa Fe's 66% increase that has been extensively studied. The sky did not fall in Santa Fe.

@8 - none, tips are not wages. We need to move away from tipping in general.

As for how it can change the relationship between servers and customers (as well as the business itself), I could say what I think would happen (all positive), but perhaps it's worth reading this experience:

http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observat…

Jess needs to do her own research... it's the restaurant industry, not tipped workers.

http://rocunited.org/tipped-over-the-edg…
Stumer, who is cited as 103 in the report, was a employment lawyer writing a blog/newsletter....

@12 As it should. But there is literally no reason to think that will happen apart from fear mongering from people like Meinert.

@12 and @14

It's also important to note. There will most likely be a phase-in for small businesses and non-profits. Luckily, our socialist in the city council has the pragmatism to recognize how difficult that would be to implement for small businesses in a short period of time.

What's a "small business" you ask? NOTHING, it's a political term. The closest definition we have in Seattle comes from the paid sick leave ordinance which divided businesses up into tiers, 5-49 employees, 50-249 employees, and 250+. Hopefully, we can consider a small business as something in the 5-49 tier.

@13 - nope. Not where I got the data. Got it from ROC fact sheet and also the video I posted. She says Seattle tipped workers...

@15 - 15 Now supports the 3-year phase in proposal to help small biz and nonprofits, big biz goes to $15 immediately. We support helping small biz and non profits, but not on the backs of their workers.

But I do thank the $15Now people for making me fully aware that when I go to a not-busy restaurant and I feel awkward about how slow it is, here in WA the waitstaff is still guaranteed $9.something an hour rather than the $3.50 it was when I worked as a server in another state. I don't have to tip so much anymore.

@18, 17... and you think reading the ROC United report isn't where the ROC fact sheet came from ? You're a bigger talking head than I thought.

@17, http://rocunited.org/wp-content/uploads/… page numbered as 23 (physical page 27 of the pdf)

C. SEXUAL HARASSMENT
More than one in ten of the more than 4,300 restaurant workers ROC-United surveyed nationwide reported that they or a co-worker had experienced sexual harassment in their restaurant.100 This figure is very likely an undercount. A recent MSNBC review of Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) data revealed that from January to November 2011, almost 37 percent of all EEOC charges by women regarding sexual harassment came from the restaurant industry,101 even though less than 7 percent of women work in the restaurant industry.102 In fact, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has targeted the restaurant industry as the “single largest” source of sexual harassment claims.103

@Jess, thanks for the answer! I agree we should move away from tips :) I support the min wage hike and really hate our culture of tipping.

@18

You don't have to tip, period. And if you're anything like your online persona, anytime you do tip, you're probably most concerned about tipping too much rather than too little.

@11, the IRS forms that historically tipped restaurant workers use with the IRS say that Tips = Wages.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1244.pdf
You must include all tips, including tips not
reported to your employer, as wages on your
income tax return. You may use the last page of
this publication to total your tips for the year.

Jess would you prefer on the backs of their consumers instead. Is the customer that much different then the worker. Look how much pushback a .01% Sales Tax is getting for Metro as it seen as regressive. Is then a 2-10% increase in prices not considered more regressive.

What specifically is a Small business..Based on headcount or revenue/profit or is it being Publicly traded ect.

odd, here's Saru Jayaman (that video Jess linked to) a year ago talking about a $10/hr min wage and a $7/hr tipped min wage (she said it would cost the average person $0.10 more a day and was actually using much the same speech with Maher). I guess she's not that opposed to a tip credit.

http://youtu.be/I97y0NboLrk?t=8m01s

@24
I dont think the pushback is that bad actually. Ive been making a lot a call for Prop 1 and people have been very supportive. And were really only calling the over 40 crowd, since its a off-year election. Which makes the support a little more surprising, as older voters tend to skew more conservative.

@Jess, reading that article you linked to and there's an interesting paragraph:

"In some states (big East Coast restaurant states come to mind, like New York), the government balances this situation by offering what is called a “tip credit”. The tip credit allows restaurants to pay their front-of-house employees less than minimum wage (usually about $5/hr less), if tips will make up the difference. In the example above, the servers in a “tip credit” system would most likely end up making about $21/hour and, cooks about $12/hour, and the dishwasher still about $8/hour. To someone like me who puts a lot of demands on his kitchen, this distribution still feels inequitable — but it’s a lot closer to fair. While the “tip credit” is a blunt instrument, it does address the wage inequity problem enough to keep the tipping system at least somewhat viable."

It does seem if we don't outlaw tipping, then it is more fair to have a tip credit to ensure some level of equality between front and back staff...

@Jess/@Dave, that being said, doing what http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observat… does seems to solve the problem. Switch from a tip system to a flat service charge.

In a town with as many Asperger's types as Seattle, the anti-tipping crusade does double duty as a public health initiative. It's almost a civil rights violation to make poorly socialized Aspies have to engage in these transactions. Everybody wins! Except you suckers getting 20% added to your bill.

Sorry, but it is hard to take you seriously when you keep bringing up the sexual harassment angle. What does that have to do with pay? Should we pay people more if they are subject to sexual harassment? FTR - I would consider myself in the anti-sexual harassment group.

This is about pay for work, not pay for all the social injustices you may be subject to at your chosen profession.

I'm not a big fan of throwing in the gender issue either. Again, I don't see it. While there are some women who have no choice, most women (and men) choose these jobs over other jobs, like construction for example because they prefer them, not because they are victims.

Serious issues need serious consideration, and this emotion-laced polemic is - as anyone sees that reads it - short on anything but an factless talking points and nice sounding heartstring pulling.

"This would address the needs of small business and nonprofits by allowing them time to adjust."

No. No it wouldn't. Do you have any facts to back up this assertion? You're making a macro-economic claim - an opinion - which then people take forward as fact, when all that it is is a manipulative & dishonest belief. Sure, it sounds good. Hell, sounds great! And easy, right?

Here's a fact - a business that has ~20 employees will add NO LESS THAN $20,000 to it's annual payroll for every $1 in increased wage. That means that after three years, a business will have to pull in another almost $200/day (based on a seven-day work week) to simply break even (And that's before the ~17% added taxes contributed by the business.).

This well-meaning but factually-bereft partisan, without ANY supporting information, documentation or relevant factual numbers can't tell you how each and every business will add that ~$200/day, nor can she guarantee you that the ~20% of MW earners will be able through Trickle-Around Economics directly or indirectly contribute to every retail business that has MW or near MW employees. She simply cannot. You know how we know? She had this opportunity to convince you with facts, but instead was forced to just hide behind her unproven talking points.

Listen, I appreciate that she's trying to help, but when she closes with this urging to show the rest of the country to do it, do you REALLY think that we need to be guinea pigs? Is our economy with it? Tom Douglas disagrees -

http://tomdouglas.com/blog/2014/04/toms-…

...every Chamber Of Commerce disagrees, 90+% of all small businesses disagree... Are we ALL selfish? Are we ALL dishonest and/or ignorant of our own numbers? Are we ALL liars, as so many people claim?

Past that, Total Compensation is a canard, anyway. It's a selfish demand by tip/commission-based businesses to exclude themselves from this ill-considered & dangerous wage increase, leaving the other ~50% of retail businesses not covered with this carveout for Total Comp. in serious danger and gives many of them a probable death sentence. That local bookstore that you love? Gone.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

That non-profit that you have supported for years? Already many; if not most, struggle to make the critical numbers necessary for funding their programs. They'd be in trouble.

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/202…

What about the art or pet supply stores? They are under TREMENDOUS pressure from competition. Or clothing stores. Or any of the retail stores that make Seattle such a great city. They'd ALL be dependent on $15 Now's dishonest and unproven Trickle-Around Economic model for their survival. We didn't like Reagan's Trickle-Down Economics, but now, hypocritically, we're fine with the same principles when WE need it to be a reality for our agenda!? That's dishonest.

We all need to raise the minimum wage. We all agree to that, but how about a real and researched timeline to study how to do it so that it not just helps the working poor, but also will not kill the businesses that make Seattle such a great city.

Don't fall for the manipulation & propaganda from all sides. Hell, don't believe me just because I say so. Ask for numbers. Ask The Stranger & the $15Now people to get you numbers. I can tell you with 100% surety that if every business posted just their base numbers on how this demanded untested & unproven increase would affect them, you would HAVE to consider that this bias & agenda-led idea would end in disaster for not just Seattle's small businesses & Seattle in general, but ALSO for the workers that rely on these jobs.

Don't be a guinea pig for these people. Don't allow emotion-based dishonest manipulation sway you. Ask for a facts.

I have been a bartender/bar manager in restaurants and bars for the past 15 years. I currently work as the bar manager of a bar. I work very hard, but I love my career and I currently make around $65k/yr.

If you work as a bartender or server in an establishment that is managed well and makes money in Seattle, you will likely make $20-30/hr total pay as a base. These people do not need to make more money by having a wage increase, or could possibly receive a major pay cut by having to restructure the business into a "service fee" sort of environment instead of a tipped business.

If you work as a bartender or server in an establishment that is not managed well or isn't making money, then you're possibly making less, but a 50% wage increase to a business that doesn't make money will put the business under and you won't have a job anyway.

I understand the numbers of a business with tipped employees a lot better than many of the people in this argument. The thought of a $15 minimum wage without any sort of attention given to tips or total pay is ludicrous. It's crippling to small business owners, causes a restructure to the operations of a business that will likely lead to tipped employees making less, and has ZERO positive benefit that I'm seeing argued, other than something to do with sexual harassment (?!) that has no business being part of this discussion.

this emotion-laced polemic is - as anyone sees that reads it - short on anything but an factless talking points and nice sounding heartstring pulling.

This from a guy who started an editorial based on made-up facts with a crazy-ass detour about trying to replicate a tomato soup recipe.

Okay. . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6A_6GAn6…
Progressive Democrat Bill Gates warns of how the MW increase has a negative effect on the poor.

Go after him now..I mean what he does know donating Billions through his foundation to cure world hunger, vaccines..LOL

@37, $2.13 is the federal minimum. As this is about a Seattle measure it's probably appropriate to talk about the Seattle tipped worker min wage of $9.32 which actually sounds like a pretty decent rate to know you'd be getting hourly, even if no customers were to show up that night.

In this modern age of credit cards, underreporting up cash tips is not as widespread a problem as you'd think. http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

@31 The raise is not unprecedented. As mentioned above, Santa Fe raised its minimum wage by over 65%. And how is raising the minimum wage utilizing the "same principles" as trickle-down economics? Raising the minimum wage increases demand as consumers have more purchasing power. The poor have been shown to spend extra income while the wealthy don't need to, which is why trickle-down economics doesn't work and trickle-up economics does.

@39,
I'm not sure that Santa Fe is the same... their min wage increases were for businesses with more than 25 employees, with a tip credit and benefits credit. And when was the 65% raise ? Even the large county jump was only 42%.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/2…
http://www.santafenm.gov/news/detail/san…
http://www.abqjournal.com/359308/news/sa…
Under the new ordinance, tipped workers are to get at least $6.40 an hour in base pay, plus tips, but in no case less than the $10.66 an hour required minimum.

@40 The Santa Fe increase was in 2004. The wage floor went from $5.15 to $8.50, about a 65% increase.

@41, so they proposed making the city's minimum wage double the federal minimum wage over a 5 year phase in. With tip credits, benefits credits, day care credits, and only for businesses of 25 employees or more. Sounds fine with me.

On February 27, 2003, the Santa Fe City Council passed an ordinance mandating a phased-in living wage for all people working at private sector businesses with 25 or more employees. The ordinance was scheduled to go into effect January 1, 2004, when the minimum hourly wage for workers in these larger private establishments would be $8.50, inclusive of tips and any employer contributions toward health insurance and/or toward the provision of day care. On January 1, 2006, the minimum wage for businesses with 25 or more employees would be increased to $9.50 (plus inflation), with a further increase to $10.50 (plus inflation) effective January 1, 2008.

@36, that's an idiotic comment. What does Bill Gates' donating money for curing "world hunger" have to do with expertise on the minimum wage?

Sarah ..who is 70 please read my other post directed specifically to you on a different mw thread

1) Nobody tips manufacturing workers. So all you clueless gits need to think past just restaurants and coffee shops.

2) You cannot change the supply and demand curve by fiat. So all you clueless gits need to take (or retake if Sawant was the prof) Econ 101.

3) Some people are not worth paying $15/hr. There is no job they can perform that yields a profitable or even non-negative outcome. These people are getting fired if this stupidity goes through.

4) Businesses in Seattle compete with business outside Seattle and outside the US. Forcing the cost of labor up in one location does nothing to raise wages across the board. Businesses that can move away, will move away. You get what's left or nothing.

@11 - awesome you would hold up the Linkery as a business without tips that's so awesome. Fact is they had horrible service, and closed.

Read about them - http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fe…

Typical of the $15Now side to use partial info and not tell the complete story. The reality is servers in Seattle make well over $15 per hour in tips and the data shows this, but $15Now uses national data that is not applicable to Seattle.

Wow, "tips are not wages". I can't believe people are even listening to anything you say. You are insulting a group of people who work hard and enjoy their profession. We servers do not need saving in Seattle. Why are you against total compensation? Your position is that you want everyone to make at least $15/hr - great, our employers will guarantee that, so what is the problem? Are we to become a sacrifice for your national platform? Unfortunately, most of us (servers and bartenders) are just becoming aware of this situation now and no matter what it takes we will not sit back and have you destroy the great culture we have built here in Seattle. It doesn't help that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the restaurant industry. We love the people we work for, most of whom have built something from scratch with money made from bartending or serving. This is the beauty of this profession. You can build a wonderful career through hard work and passion for good food, drinks and service. And in turn, create jobs as well as sanctuaries for non industry people. Yet you basically say they are greedy, evil people. You should be so ashamed of yourselves at $15 NOW. This minimum wage increase should be passed to help those in need, not destroy the other little guys and in turn cause hundreds of closures of small businesses and countless layoffs.