If I had a nickel for every in vitro experiment that didn't translate in vivo. Fuck the FDA and their greasy claws.
"Dr. Steven M. Dubinett, a professor at U.C.L.A. who led the study, emphasized in a telephone interview that the study’s findings were preliminary and did not establish a link between e-cigarettes and cancer."

Way to suck at science reporting just like everyone else.
Hence the "may," folks.
You still stink when you're using them. Sorry your friends are too polite to tell you that.

"Researchers involved in the little-noticed study emphasized that their findings were preliminary and that the study did not involve people but specially treated human lung cells."

No, this is nonsense.
Wake me when Google Glasses cause a cleft asshole.

Oh wait, too late.
If you REALLY want to inhale all the really nasty chemicals in E-cigarettes, be my guest. At least the second hand smoke is less toxic to ME. Why don't you just use patches and gum to get your nicotine, might be less toxic to you smokers too.
Yeah, let's all hate on smokers!!! We non-smokers are better than you smokers and we're a big group so we feel justified in hating you!!!

Because if you smoke it's entirely your own fault... advertising and peer pressure and the environment and social situation you grew up in have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Just like you poor people, it's exactly the same, why don't you just not be poor and just not smoke, just do it. why don't you just do it. bootstraps.

/fuck all you haters. quitting smoking is fucking tough. and now there might be one less way to quit. assholes.
@9: Switching intake method is not quitting. You quit when you stop putting it into your system, period. And yes, it's difficult, but it won't kill you like alcohol or heroin will.
There was a method head puffing one of these on the light rail and the other day. That should be punishable by wedgie.
There was a meth head puffing one of these on the light rail and the other day. That should be punishable by wedgie.
And ecigs can have 10 times the nicotine of regular cigs. But they certainly won't be harmful or addictive until someone spends millions of dollars on a new study to prove it. So lets keep advertising them on TV and pretending they are perfectly healthy.
My concern was always second hand smoke, so... if you want to poison yourself, fine by me.
I was a long time pack-a-day smoker. I quit 4 years ago (patch + gum). I'm sympathetic to the quitter's plight. But so much of the e-cig hate is a result of the "I'm not smoking while I defiantly stare you down and exhale clouds of cherry scented nicotine vapor in your kid's face" attitude.
Just don't do it anywhere that smoking isn't allowed. Problem solved.
Here's a better headline:
"Drug addicts still addicted to most pathetic drug available; Posing still not valid cessation technique."
@5, maybe you're smelling your upper lip?

Of course e-cigarettes are not good for you, but you aren't inhaling the 4,000 chemicals you get from a regular cigarette. I smoked for 10 years. I tried the patch, the gum, cold turkey, nothing worked for me. I'm using an e-cig now, and I haven't touched regular cigarettes since I started. For me that is huge. You can piss on that all you want, but for some people it is almost impossible to quit smoking regular cigarettes. You can also gradually decrease the amount of nicotine you're inhaling at your own pace until you're not using it at all. That's what I intend to do.
I assume that if/when smoking and guns are eliminated/banned/whatever, you guys will all naturally begin advocating for the elimination of alcohol, which I believe is the next largest preventable killer. Right?
E-cigs are still safer and less obnoxious than tobacco cigarettes.
@19 The idea is to eliminate the risk to others. Hence, consuming alcohol and driving is punished because it kills other people needlessly. Smoking in public poses a needless risk to others who choose not to smoke, so smoking in public has been made illegal. Blowing nicotine vapor on your non-vaping neighbors at the bus stop forces your neighbors to inhale that crap.

Here's an idea: stop forcing the people around you to breath that crap before it becomes necessary to make a law banning it.
The vapeholes are out in force on Cap Hill.
@18 good for you, have these commentators ever met someone who's tried quitting 5,10,30 times?
@19 alcohol is way more dangerous than nicotine.

@21 blowing alcohol vapor on your non-drinking neighbors at the bus stop forces your neighbors to inhale that crap. Sounds like a great argument to ban alcohol.
I am 100% anti smoking and have celebrated every anti-smoking policy, but (well regulated)E-cigs are chemically identical to nicotine gum/patches. Nicotine is not particularly carcinogenic and is safe in moderate doses. That vapor is water vapor and unless the smoker pulls a Clinton and doesn't inhale, shouldn't contain any nicotine(though it sounds like a great experiment to run!)
Cancer - it's what's for dinner!
@21 cars hit you with many more harmful vapors while you're waiting for the bus, shall we ban them too?

Paraphrasing the cab driver from Old School: I recommend you stop being such a pussy.
"@9: Switching intake method is not quitting. You quit when you stop putting it into your system, period. And yes, it's difficult, but it won't kill you like alcohol or heroin will. "

He said, taking a sip of scotch and lighting a joint
I've never been confident that e-cigarettes were entirely benign. First of all, nicotine itself is very toxic (a 6 on a scale of zero to six on poison scales), and is in higher concentrations in e-cigarettes. Plus they're packed in all sorts of other unregulated chemicals.

Yes, I know that there are 4,000 other chemicals in tobacco products not present in e-cigarettes. I'm sure that it's good to get rid of some of those chemicals.

But it's not true, as some of my e-cigarette-smoking friends have claimed, that e-cigs have "been proven to be safe." Absolutely not proven to be safe. That said, I have no problem with people using them as a harm reduction strategy, or as a nicotine replacement strategy to try to quit. (Although none of my friends who've used them to try to quit have been able to quit nicotine entirely, and most are back on regular cigarettes.)

But I do have a major problem with people using their e-cigarettes in enclosed public places where regular smoking is prohibited. It smells nasty, and contrary to proponents' claims, the exhalent is NOT simply water vapor with nothing else in it. Feel free to use them, but unless and until the FDA gives secondhand exposure a clean bill of health, don't expose me to them.
#11 & 12, why didn't you report him to the driver then? There's a button for it, and he'd have happily had security escort the yahoo off the light rail line.

Don't just stand there, do something. You're a member of the community, mankind is your business.
I've never been confident that e-cigarettes were entirely benign. First of all, nicotine itself is very toxic (a 6 on a scale of zero to six on poison scales), and is in higher concentrations in e-cigarettes. Plus they're packed in all sorts of other unregulated chemicals.
You sound like an idiot here. I just thought someone should let you know. Toxicity isn't the problem with cigarettes because the dose isn't toxic. Carcinogenicity is the problem (and that is not caused by nicotine). Saying "all sorts of unregulated chemicals" is just a fancy way of waving your hands because you don't know and haven't done any research. Otherwise you would have let us know of the chemicals and their effects.

Try not to be a moron the next time you post, okay? Less FUD, more facts.
Well I'm convinced. I see now that I am completely wrong and also a terrible person. Thanks, e-cig fanboys, for showing me the error of my ways. We must ban cars and alcohol before talking about banning e-cig use in public. I'll try hard to stop being such a pussy, because a fictional cab driver in a movie said so and some obviously very tough internet person passed the misogynistic advice along.

@28: Is there a law against e-cigs in public already that I'm not aware of? Or does Sound Transit have a no e-cig on the Light Rail policy that I don't see posted? I'll be sure to complain next time if that's the case.
Where does mouth cancer come from in people who chew tobacco? They aren't burning anything.
@30: The same rules for cigarettes apply to e-cigarettes in Washington. Thus, you can't give someone secondhand propylene glycol exposure (oh dear!).
@30 Right on, though I see not all of Washington. King county is good enough for me though. I'll speak up now that I know this, thanks!
@33: Yep, you're right. It is just KC that includes e-cigarettes in the 25 ft smoking ban rule.
A guy I know was having terrible gastric problems, which turned out to be because of the chemicals in e-cigs. When he stopped using them, the health problems resolved. Anecdotes not data, etc etc. Just passing it along.
this whole thread makes me want to advocate for constant, unapologetic, public flatulence. especially indoors.
Well, knock me over with a big fucking feather. Inhaling various untested drugs might be bad for your health?

"You sound like an idiot here. I just thought someone should let you know. Toxicity isn't the problem with cigarettes because the dose isn't toxic."

I think you should read your first two sentences yourself. Toxic doesn't mean lethal. Unless you have some fucking knowledge of toxicology, I think you're talking out your ass. All I know is I haven't seen the toxicology folks I work with popping out e-cigs in the halls.

And by the way, nicotine is, in fact, a toxin.

file under, "no shit, sherlock"
I'm probably going to butt up against the norm here, but I think eCigs are a good thing. Hear me out...

Many moons ago, my dad, a smoker for over 30 years at that point, was prescribed a nicotine inhaler to help him quit. Within 6 months, he had kicked both the butts and the inhaler. Guess what, the "inhaler" was nothing more than a prescription eCig. It looked the same, it worked the same, it soothed the need to flick something and delivered ever-decreasing amounts of nic.

Maybe these are better used with doctors and therapy (he got both), but they're clearly helpful in getting people to quit. If we can sell nasty lozenges and gum and patches over the counter, why not these? Even if it's BAD, it can't be worse than smoking, right?
Haters gonna hate. I love mine, and this way, my ten year old doesn't sing Smoker Face at me through the sliding glass door. That was a total buzz kill.
@37: Toxicity isn't the problem. Carcinogenicity is the problem. And neither nicotine nor propylene glycol has been found to be carcinogenic in humans. Nice of you to quote me one sentence short of the point I was trying to make. One could almost wonder if you are a dishonest person who is trying to quote someone out of context for the sake of a strawman argument.
@29 (and others) yes: FUD.

I have a terrible sense of deja-vu reading these've read this on the Stranger months (or more) ago and now almost the same things are being put forward.

@1 is correct: when they show pure nicotine is a carcinogen (keeping in mind the dubious science behind the Saccharine scare of the 70s), then this will be persuasive. In the mean time, it's much less toxic than alcohol, heroin, meth, etc. used at the doses used by smokers.

I'm a believer in harm-reduction and to me, e-cigs are a 100% win.
@19 Don't be such a drama queen.
I'm with @18, I tried quitting a hundred times in a hundred different ways. I finally tried e-cigs 3 years ago and haven't had a regular cigarette since. I don't "smoke" at people's homes or other non-smoking areas and I certainly don't blow it in anyone's face. I don't stink like I used to and I'm not endangering anyone else's health. Maybe I look like a hipster tool when I suck on my little battery and it lights up, but for me, it's better than the alternative.
But the whole point of SLOG is to be drama queens!!!

/wails uncontrollably
So modified human lung cells to have specific genetic mutations that are associated with an increased risk for cancer wand ere specifically manipulated in very controlled settings, produced the study's expected results? OK. BAN! Dear Lord, how is the steam created with non-nicotine, vegetable oil juices any different than a potpourri pot (All Hail the 90's!!!) If anyone is serious about any of this, they conduct serious, in-depth and thorough studies before releasing such biased, provocative, sensationalized BS. Keep it up and you'll really have zero credibility against vapeing. Oh ... wait.
@45 I concede your point.

@46 Actually, if you're serious about it, what you do is conduct a small pilot study to see if the massive use of time and resources required for a much larger study is warranted. Nothing in this study is sensationalized. Your response to it is, though. But as @45 says, I guess that's the whole point of SLOG.
@ 17 as someone who quit smoking after thirteen years (cold turkey, no patches) and later had to kick a Fentanyl habit, I can say without question, you don't know what you're talking about. Nicotine withdrawal makes you edgy, irritable, and insomniac. Opiate and opioid withdrawal nauseates you, switches you back and forth between sweating and chills, causes diarrhea and puking, leaves you unable to lie down (much less sleep) because you feel like worms are crawling under your skin. It's the longest two weeks of your life, and you're damned strong if you never consider suicide. Not even close to the same thing.
This is stupid.

"E-cigs could potentially be carcigenous but we have made no link yet" means they definitely are less carcigenous than true cigarettes, which kill 50% of their consumers, and many of their non-consumers.

Instead of frightening tobacco users - who are ill people - back into the wide open arms of the tobacco industry killers, Dan should use a little sense of proportion.

As for the thousands of harmful chemicals, it's called "smoke". You burn something organic with a very large number of components, like plants, or paper, or weed, or tobacco, or bacon, you get them. People would die from bacon smoke cancer if they kept their nose glued to the pan when it burns. But they don't, because there's nothing addictive like nicotine in burned bacon smoke, so they recognize its acrid smoke as something best not inhaled, they try not to have it happen by not burning their bacon, and they leave it at that.

A product that contains nicotin (what smokers wants) but not the smoke (what kills smokers) is a win from everybody's perspective - except the tobacco corporations, of course. And that would tremendously improve the air pollution as well.

@18 Good for you !
E cigs are just as dangerous. I'm speaking from someone who quit cigarettes two years ago. So yes I know what I am talking about.

Here in Canada E cigs are not as well regulated as they should be. They are usually shipped in from China and contain no warning labels whatsoever unlike regular cigarette packages which contain a ton of unpleasant photos and warnings. E cigs are marketed as being essentially harmless yet they are not.

When I was trying to quit for the seventh or eighth time I tried E Cigs and you know what? It gave me a sore throat, headaches and heart palpitations. That was enough to scare me back to the real deal. Here's another thought. It is very possible with these things to overdose on nicotine. Something which is very dangerous and very possible. So while they may or may not cause cancer as Dan Savage suggests they are hardly anything better than the real thing. If you are really serious about quitting best thing is to wean off to cold turkey. Patches, gum, ect are just marketing ploys to keep you hooked and the E Cig is no different.

Last thing. Nicotine is a toxin AND a carcinogen. Please pull your head out of your ass. Thank you.
I was a pack and a half a day smoker for 18 years. I was on and off with my e-cigarette for awhile, but took a break from drinking to finally really let it stick and it's been well over a month since I've had a cigarette and I'm not in danger of ruining my friendships, my relationship or my job like I have when I really tried to quit smoking before. I started using 18 mg bottles of the juice and I'm down to 6mg already and doing fine. I'm going to do this for a month and drop down to 0mg. You self-righteous cunts can wail about how bad this is for us and you but I know goddamn well that my throat feels a million times better, my breathing capacity has fucking skyrocketed and my sense of smell and taste are rapidly coming back to me. And several of my anti-smoking friends have remarked that they actually like the smell of some of the flavors I use. I think some of you fuckers are so high up on your anti-smoking horse, you need to rail against e-cigarettes just because.

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