Transit at the regional level—particularly King County Metro bus service which is and will remain the predominant service type within Seattle—has below average cost efficiency (cost per hour), productivity (boardings per hour), and cost effectiveness(cost per boarding) compared to the peer group.
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Just throw Metro 25 million more a year, dont ask any questions.
Might as well get it out there so we can get that crap on the table.
I think it's a good plan. Seattle only. Go for it.
Scr3w the suburbs!
Keep chasing your windmills.
Peoples' actual daily existence being diminished, their lives used as pawns is some farcical political chess game with no positive outcome possible.
Irresponsible, asinine, and unconscionable.
Transit should always be a fundamental part of the operational budget. That we had to resort to a regressive self-tax (car tabs) to stop cuts is unbelievable.
Ask Seattle to pay a car tab and they'll say no. Any other tax? Done deal.
Once this precedent is set with transit, it's only a matter of time before Seattle does the same with education (universal preschool is coming), mental health, etc.
It's stupid and short-sighted.
Seattle going it alone is a tempting idea but the city boundaries are artificial ones that have no impact on economics and people. This is how Detroit happened, people. The region has to work together.
@9 SPG is right. Seattle is becoming a third world country. Just today I was only able to count three artisinal food trucks selling grilled cheese sandwiches!
Hopefully we can use some of the revenue from this Plan C to clean up some of those potholes....
Why do our only possible funding sources seem to be regressive sales taxes, flat car tabs and property taxes which pinch the working classes more and more? This shit is rigged.
I'd love to see a link to voting results in each area of the county if it's available.
I'd love to see a link to voting results in each area of the county if it's available.
Hopefully the first step in Seattle taking charge of our own transit needs.
I didn't vote for Prop 1, but without a doubt I'll vote and volunteer for this one.
If this passes decisively, it could provide a better funding model for later transit projects. I still think it's better to stick to presidential year elections, but this is worth a try.
What's to keep them from not doing it? We pay them x dollars for y service hours on z routes, so what's to keep them from cutting elsewhere in Seattle while preserving service to the suburbs? Unless the new solution specifically precludes it, why couldn't they?
And don't shove another regressive proposal my way.
If this fails can we go neighborhood by neighborhood?
Why not go all the way?
Ditch Metro, (and King County).
Form the Seattle Transit Authority.
Form Seattle County
(better yet, split Seattle into seven new cities by district)
Use SoundTransit for all regional trips and long distance rail.
Hopefully their campaign will be as impressive as that website i.e. a fart in the wind.
That said, going it alone is kind of dumb. It would help in-city routes, but would gut outlying routes. This is no help whatsoever to the hundreds of thousands of people who live outside of Seattle city limits and commute in to the city every day. Rush hour is about to get exponentially worse, and saving a handful of Seattle routes from the chopping block won't help.
Get used to them, because the suburbs are dying
1. Metro is screwed up financially. We cant keep throwing money down Metro's black hole just because they say they need it. Metro had made numerous promises with previous tax increases, and many of those promises never came to be. HOW in the hell can people vote YES with a straight face? Its a broken organization, that hemorrhages money all over the place, then has the gall to ask us give more. FUCK THEM - go clean up your house Metro, THEN come ask for more money.
2. Bus riders have been getting away without paying much at all for the service they use. Its high to time that they start to feel what it REALLY costs to operate the bus system.
and to all those people who say "fuck suburbs": hey, fine. We want our own county. We are tired of King County politics and the flakes that run it. But remember this: its all fun to be single and live the urban lifestyle, but when you grow up a little and start a family, you will RUN to the suburbs as fast as you can. Seattle is a shithole of a place to raise kids.
LMFAO...they are? you dont get out much, do you?
Single people w/o kids like you are so myopic that its scary. Im not even sure you should be allowed to vote actually.
raising children in seattle is nearly akin to child abuse in my book.
I expect more voters will be persuaded to hike transit taxes when SDOT can draw a better conclusion.
and you think things have gotten better since 2010? LMFAO....
honestly, if you really thought this would pass you either must not own a car or never get out of the seattle city limits. the $60 car tabs doomed this from the start because it asked drivers to take a hit to pay for a service they don't use.
while something must be done to continue paying for bus service, perhaps asking the folks who don't use it to pay for it was not the best choice.
this all goes back to Eyman and his idiocy about limiting revenue increases to an amount that is always below expenditure increases. eventually something has to give. that something is apparently transit.
Now is the perfect time to do it.
Problem solved. Given the millions that are siphoned off into preppy suburbs and backwater inbred Spokanistan environs, we should be awash in tax dollars.
So for the only negative reference I've seen at all was provided by kk_in_seattle (#50) with this SDOT peer review piece from 2010: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/do…
Your comment is all over the place. Some responses:
1) Every transit advocate I know of knows that Sounder North is a wasteful boondoggle. They can't kill it for political reasons. I wish we could kill Sounder North and use the trainsets to enhance service South, but there are a number of legal obstacles to that. (Or, if they're not going to kill it, figure out a way to create a Ballard stop). Whatever we think of the unfortunate and wasteful situation with Sounder North, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Metro buses. Starving Metro won't fix any problem with Sounder North, obviously.
2) I have, on many occasions, traveled from Ballard to the Airport via public transit. There is no rule that prohibits you from taking your luggage on the bus.
3) You provide no evidence that "no one" finds those signs useful. I do. If I see my bus isn't coming for a while, I might choose to do something other than wait at the stop--run a quick errand, grab a coffee, etc. We provide similar signage for motorists about traffic delays, bridges, etc. Why do you assume such information isn't valuable to users?
4) As to the claim that Metro is particularly inefficient, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Metro's costs by most metrics are very similar to other transit agencies operating bus service in high traffic, high COL areas. Tacoma, Portland, Oakland, San Francisco, Los Angeles all have similar costs her revenue mile and per revenue hour. (Western systems that are moderately cheaper to operate than Seattle include Honolulu, Las Vegas, Denver and SLC.) But there's nothing unusual about Metro's costs: service delivered ratio.
The bus drivers discretion is if your able to bring on luggage to the bus as they decide if the family of four with for bags will block seats or aisles. So in that case what should the family do then when the driver says NO? Which happened to a friend of mine with 3 kids and 3 adults from ballard .
I am glad you find the signs useful I am glad Metro has so much money to spend on things like that . Which proves my point they have plenty of money so thank you. If they did noit have plenty of money frills like that would not be spent. But the money tree must be picked for more .
keep fucking that chicken though.
Transit advocates don't control the Mayors of Mukilteo and Edmonds, sadly. Sound transit is a complex bargain between different municipalities and regions. "My people" aren't in charge.
No, I didn't (although it is a good idea--you need volume to make a train a good investment, and a commuter line to the far North will have even worse numbers than Sounder North. Your theory about trains and distance is completely and insanely wrong; the most effective separate grade urban rail transit covers short distances that take a long time to travel by road. Ballard to UW and Ballard to downtown are great examples.). I was contesting your specific claim that, and here I quote you:
a person in ballard cannot take luggage to the bus to go downtown to get on the toy trolley
This is what's known as a lie. A person in Ballard very much can take luggage to the bus, and then get on a trolley downtown. I've done it many times myself when travelling to the airport. It's quite easy; I can't really fathom what you think is stopping anyone from doing it.
Right now, we are growing in population and economically. Gotta have transportation to match, otherwise, we are just going to drown in our own traffic. I voted for the last plan and I will vote for this one. I am saddened it has come to this. In fact, I am disappointed in the folks who don't realize that with respect to transportation we are all in it together. But, we need to move forward. This initiative would be a step forward, although it would be way better if we could all work together on a comprehensive system. Even LA is now building transit like crazy. The fact that we are trailing LA is absurd.
Now I-5's a parking lot, HOW many Metro routes will be cut, Big Bertha isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and our trailing L.A. is indeed, absurd. White collar criminally absurd.
Why should homeowners only be taxed?
As the busses get more crowded, more drivers will be holding people to these standards.
201 S. Jackson St.
Seattle, WAS 98104-3856
This isn't a tax on single-family housing, its a take on property. Homes are worth a lot around here, so it will effect homeowners. But it effects every commercial, industrial, and apartment and condo property as well.
Ive seen some people saying that they dont want to pay hundreds more in taxes. In order to pay $100 you would need to have about half a million in property. The poster I noticed said that they would have to pay $750, which would mean they own $3.5M in property in Seattle. So doing ok.
Most people wont have to pay nearly so much, and we get to keep our bus service! And maybe, just maybe, we can tell Oly to stuff it next time they want to tax us to pay for a $300M highway out in the middle of nowhere. We wont need them anymore to keep the lights on.
All because selfish people who want to drive and pollute the air don't want to pay more taxes... There are people that can't afford cars, or can't drive due to age, disability, etc, and what the fuck is all this money being thrown away for light raill??? No one is going to ride it because there won't be any buses to get to the stops! And they're selfish about their damn cars.
I dunno, weird shit happens, but it sounds like BS to me. I've taken multiple large suitcases on the bus--and I've seen others do the same--dozens of times. I've never seen anyone get any resistance for doing so. So I have pretty extensive experience to the contrary.
It sounds nice when it's stated in this manner, but this is *another* proposed property tax. It all adds up. How much disposable income do you assume people with say, a $280k property in Seattle have? Are they automatically rich in your mind? Do you want to tax property to the point that home ownership really is out of reach for all but the wealthiest? The levy rate for me is already at fucking $10.30. You think it's no big deal to keep piling more and more on?
Seattle residents already pay and pay and pay in sales tax and in property tax. The term "progressive"... I think it does not mean what you think it means.
It is time for cost cutting, and it is long past time for efficiency within our public transit systems to improve, not for yet another tax.
Im sorry if youre in dire straights financially, Ive been there. But the tax burden in Seattle is actually relatively low compared to other cities. And a property tax is certainly more progressive than a sales tax or a flat-car-tab tax. It's maybe not quite as progressive as a state income tax (which I would support), but the state constitution takes that option off the table for the immediate future.
Is that 10.30 a month? If this tax were to pass, and you own 280K, your monthly rate would go to $15.40 a month. It's not nothing, but it's also not a crazy amount of money to pay for our services. Its an entree + tip in Ballard.
Also, if you're for lower taxes, think of this in the long game way.
I think of it this way; if we raise $35M a year to get to say no to paying for a $200M highway between two towns with a combined population of 1/3 Capitol Hill. Anything we don't have to go begging to Olympia for is one less piece of leverage they have over us spending our money on our needs.
Seattle has had to pay out massive amounts of money to Olympia's transportation budget, which mostly gets siphoned off to other areas. Seattle has to go along because it has no other way to fund its roads and buses. But now we can pay our own way and say no to paying for massive unnecessary projects elsewhere. The proposed Senate Transportation budget had $6Billion dollars for new highways, mostly out east. The Army Engineer Corp rated Washington's rural roads as the best in the country, hands down. Meanwhile, Seattle's streets and buses are neglected, and our state is the ONLY in the country which doesnt fund transit at all.
So couldn't we, say, put more buses on at commute times? And less regularly on the less utilized services at low-traffic times? Or is there something I'm missing?
I have looked at the proposal, and they're only half doing that. What the cuts are aren't the best options. Why axe a whole route, when you could axe the mid day service, and leave it running for commuters? Somebody should give me that job.. ;-)
I use the bus for work every day, the fare is only 2.25, I would pay 2.50, and raise the money that way, why make home owners pay for a service a lot of them don't even use?
Levy rate (think property tax rate). The rate depends on neighborhood, quality, condition, size, etc of the property. http://www.kingcounty.gov/Assessor/Repor… and/or http://www.kingcounty.gov/operations/GIS… will let you look at rates in general (first link) and look at particular parcels of land to see their value and rate (second link)
Take assessed value, divide by 1000, multiply by levy rate for your property tax. So for me, about $2900 yearly / $240 monthly. In addition to mortgage, utils, insurance, maintenance, etc.
Mine is by no means the highest levy rate Seattle has to offer, but you can see how it really offends me to have property tax pointed to as a public funding panacea every time some part of our public works can't effectively manage their finances. Isn't killing off the middle class a bad thing for fucks sake? Will we be "progressive" enough when the middle class is completely gone?