I dunno..I'm feeling in a sloggy debate mood today, but I really don't think there's anything terribly controversial to Dan's take on this: people's fantasy turn ons are what they are...and they're just fantasy. I guess the only hinckey part is when their kinks are tied into deeper, unresolved issues...which I've seen in some BDSM situations.

I think the advice in general is sound, but perhaps what the questioner is really worried about is if the use of degrading slurs during sex could backfire and nuke the relationship. I'm sure we've all seen situations like this happen, where people are fine while being insulted up until the point where they just snap. At some point, the emotions kick in and they take it personally.

Don't say it.

Get a tape of Lester Maddox saying it and play that.

Both sides should enjoy themselves. If it makes you uncomfortable, refuse.

It seems to me I recently watched a Hump Tour film where a woman begged to be given the "pain slut" treatment. At each break in the action, there seemed to be smiles on both parties. And visible bruising on one of them.

Compared to that, using a potentially toxic word in a similar context doesn't seem quite as bad. As long as it's just in that context.

If the top in that video can resist punching women in the breasts in everyday life, I don't see why you can't resist using the N-word outside of the REQUESTED erotic context. You just better smile afterwards and act like you didn't mean to cause any harm.

But, what do I know? I'm just a Vanilla who went to a Hump screening.

As somebody who can't stand any yapping during sex, I am at a loss to understand the fetish. I briefly dated somebody who never swore in normal life, but during sex was an extreme potty mouth. It was weird, but their thing.

If he asks for it and you can get over it, go for it. There are thousands of reasons why relationships can go south. If it's doing what somebody asked, then it was a bad idea, their bad idea.

Dan's right - people are turned on by degrading shit all the time.

While I always want to do what my partner wants, there's no way I could say this one though.

It sounds like WURD would feel degraded himself if he used that term. Extremely degraded and humiliated, and not in an enjoyable way. So, what @4 said.

Full disclosure: I am white; my husband is not.

Thankfully, my husband has never asked me to do something like this. I really don't know if I could utter a racial slur during sex and not feel like complete scum for doing so.

On the other hand, I completely agree with Dan that its okay that the LW's boyfriend is into that kind of thing. Like so many other kinks, as long as you are both consenting adults and nobody gets hurt, there's nothing inherently wrong with a degradation kink.

I don't think you have to have lengthy conversations that require you to psychoanalyze his deep seated desire to be humiliated during sex with racial slurs. That is almost certainly above your pay grade. But I do think you need to talk about how YOU feel about it when you're both clothed. I see no reason why you can't basically tell him what you've told Dan. "I love you and I want to be GGG and please you in bed, but calling you the n-word during sex, even if you want me to, makes me feel really really awful. I'm not sure how to deal with this. What do you think?" That sounds like the start of a meaningful conversation to me. Perhaps you can find another way to satisfy his degradation kink without having to use the most loaded racial slur in America.

In the name of being GGG, I might be able to force myself to say it every once in a while, but personally, if I had to do it all the time, it would become too much of a boner-killer, and I'd have to DTMFA. But that's just me. You may be able to compartmentalize it in a different way.

Could you compromise? "Boy" is still pretty darned racist so maybe it would work for him. And it would let you avoid saying one of the nastiest words in the English language.

There are good reasons to do what your honey says he wants and good reasons that doing what your honey says he wants could blow up in your faces, but either way I just couldn't do it, if it were me. That word is an Insult Too Far. Good advice, though.

@10: That's no better in practice.

@10 - that is probably the funniest thing I will read on the internet this week.

The problem with the n-word isn't the degradation, as Dan points out. It is that the n-word also evokes the profound shame many white folks have in the history of our (white people) use of that word. I don't know if any other slur carries with it the depth of shame quite like the n-word. Faggot comes close, I guess, but it still isn't the n-word.

I couldn't do it. I mean, I could say it, but I couldn't sell it, and the selling of it is the turn on anyway.

This just reminds me of that infamous "potato nigger mick dick" story someone told on the /lgbt/ board of 4chan. Archived version, if anyone wants to read it.

This feminist loves to hear language in bed that would get a severe talking to in any other context. Yet there are one or two gendered insults that my husband, also a feminist, cannot utter, and I respect that. I agree with @10, at least in spirit: There must be another word that is sufficiently transgressive that the partner can utter. Maybe it could be a part of a larger script. If they can talk about it outside the bedroom, I'm certain they can find something. I wouldn't advise off-the-cuff experimentation.

I agree with @4. GGG is aspirational, but considering it an absolute leads to slippery slopes of exactly this sort. In the fully rational, clothed and full-on soft discussion you'll have to have I hope that if you say I'd rather you not ask me to call you that he can be cool with that.

Oddly I feel as if I'm being inappropriately intolerant (at least by the standards of this forum) by standing up for not calling your boyfriend a (jeez, I can't believe we're still using "n-word" even when the direct topic is the, um, n-word) okay - an n-word.

The other tack might be: say you'll compromise and call him a chink instead.

I'm not much of a Dom, but I would find it infinitely easier to hit someone--or otherwise inflict physical pain--than to verbally degrade them. Whether personally aimed insults or racial slurs. I suppose I'd try and be GGG if it was really their thing, but it would take a fair bit of sober/not-horny unpacking.

Tangential, and probably an order of magnitude or so less serious:

I was in an LTR with a woman from China whom I sometimes called Honey, as one does. After a while, she started calling me Milk as a term of endearment. I suppose her reasoning was that Milk & Honey are poetic compliments, and since she was yellow [a designation I would have found iffy except that she didn't in the least] and I was white, voilà.

@17: That's downright adorable.

Oof - that's the sort of thing I'd only be able to do in a role play, and probably one in which it really fit the character.

@19. Yeah. I know for me it would be a straight no as the only role play roles I can think of are things, as someone who was actively anti racist in the deep south when neonazis and klansmen were really active, would never ever do.

As a person who has been on the receiving end of racist and homophobic word shit, I say tell BF no on the racist word shit. I hate to think of a single white dude being de-sensitized to the poison that all racist slurs inject into those who hear them as well as those who say them. Part of a multi-racial relationship is recognizing there are some things one or the other cannot and should not do/say because of who they are. If BF got a raging hard on over being lynched from the bed post, would he consider that request?

OK maybe I’m feeling particularly grumpy tonight (grumpy enough to delurk) but (most of) this comment thread reads like a roll call of wanky liberal hand-wringing (except comment 13 which is clueless, appropriating wanky liberal hand-wringing). Yes, check in with your BF fully clothed to establish if this is something he actually wants to do or if in the heat of the moment he’s vocalising a fantasy that he wants to stay just that but if doing this would really be a turn-on for him get over yourself and indulge a harmless kink (one with no equipment or specialist skills required – bonus!)

Talk about Stockholm syndrome.

The sexually colonized have embraced their sexual colonization!

But seriously, though, I dated a white guy for a while who would play the plantation fantasies card with me and wonder why I lost my erection almost immediately every time. I had neither the energy nor the time to unpack why the colonial fantasies were so deeply offensive in a way he could understand (this was shortly before I decided to stop dating openly stupid people).

From my perspective, this kid genuinely needs to explain to his boyfriend that doing what he asks makes him uncomfortable and why, as Dan suggests. What Dan would ordinarily go into but for whatever reason didn't this time around is the notion that insisting on indulgence in this particular kink would put his boyfriend on the fringes of Selfish Bastard-land once any substantial discussion has taken place.

Only agree to it if he agrees to call you "honkey" or "cracker" at the same time.

I'm with @23. This seems like something that would be naturally compartmentalized to the bedroom. And I think the degradation thing is common enough that an explanation for the rational behind it would be fairly obvious. I'd suggest he maybe give it a shot once or twice to see if it's as terrible as he envisions it being. Though I'm a straight white guy, so you can take my opinion with the appropriate amount of salt.

For Christ's sweet sake, TALK TO YOUR BOYFRIEND!

I agree with #9 that the LW feelings matter too. If it really something that bothers him, he gets to say no.

But I do think a good, clothed, non-horny conversation is a good idea. Not to play therapist, but to explore the idea and make sure that it {or something like it} is what the boyfriend wants, and isn't just being uttered in the heat of moment. And to see if there's any way he can compromise.

The BF is ASKING for this. Dan reclaimed "Faggot" through his "Hey Faggot" campaign. Words can have multiple meanings. "Ass!" is an insult. While "hot ass!" is a compliment. And "ass" can simply be a pack animal.

Could the LW repurpose the N-word - yes, on the street, to a stranger, it is a horrible, racist term. But it can have multiple meanings - one being an insider's term between blacks, another being a turn-on for his BF. There are lots of things we say in the bedroom that would get us fired if said in the boardroom.

Also, LW, consider what happens if you use the word as requested and your BF gets even more aroused and worked up - you would quickly develop positive associations with the word IN THAT CONTEXT. Words that would get my lover all hot and bothered? God, I wish there was such an easy button to press!

Christ Killer?! For real? I read that part and actually rolled my eyes and thought "Come on, Dan, no one is going to buy that" ... and then read the parentheses. I'm not a very jewish Jew, I suppose, but. Yeah. That made me laugh. I don't think I could say that one with a straight face.

@29: "God, I wish there was such an easy button to press!"

Not everybody is able to turn off their brain so easily.

And seriously?

"Words can have multiple meanings. "Ass!" is an insult. While "hot ass!" is a compliment. And "ass" can simply be a pack animal."

Good god. You start dropping words that've only been known as racial epithets and tell people it means "really awesome person!!!"

Please, do it.

If you can’t do it, say so. Sex is supposed to be fun for both of you.

I was recently asked for breastfeeding role-play which was fine (and ultimately very hot) but I was very clear that it could not go into Adult Baby territory. No age-play. No mommy stuff. I *can’t* do that. I was asked to participate in age play in a previous life and I really tried but it was repugnant to me. A nurturing connection between two adults, I can do. With pleasure.

I couldn’t do degradation role-play either, but fortunately nobody’s ever asked me for it.

If it’s not fun or possible for you, don’t. And don’t feel bad about it. You’re allowed to have boundaries and you’re allowed to ask that they be respected.

If a white person is so wrapped up they can't even say "nigger" in conversation to their SO about whether they can say it in the bedroom, they probably aren't going to get there.

"boy" "son" "Monica" are all things to try in the bedroom if it's a single word hang up.

If the LW goes through with it, let's hope that there's no chance of being overheard by a roommate or neighbor. That could lead to some misunderstanding...

Oh Christ. This is tough. I've seen black people talk about this in the most interesting way. There's a part of many black people whose primal self-respect may be wrapped up in the need to tell someone that they completely submit to them. And I've heard the phrase, "I'm your nigga for real" used in that instance. It's like they held the door to their heart wide open for a moment, exposed their vulnerabilities and faults to say that phrase as if to mean, "Take me for what I am - the good with the bad, the best with the worst. Take my best self-image with my worst self-image."

I think the LW really has touched his partner's heart deeply to be allowed to speak to him like that. Whatever he does, treat that man with care. The first time you have a big blowout argument the whole dynamics could change. I'd say it 's a good idea to treat this invitation the way wise people treat an open relationship - the subject is always on the table and nobody gets to remove it. It gets discussed and it gets regularly reviewed just to make sure both of you are on the exact same page with it.

@undead: "You start dropping words that've only been known as racial epithets and tell people it means "really awesome person!!!""

Huh? Are you aware some African-American call each "nigger" and "nigga"? In that context, it isn't a racial epithet.

So, yeah, context matters. For instance, when the listener wants to hear it.

Fiction is fiction...guy should do what he wants.

@38 undead ayn rand likes to be an asshole to people. Don't take it personally.

Christ Killer, Omigosh! That's something special!

@ 17 "I would find it infinitely easier to hit someone--or otherwise inflict physical pain--than to verbally degrade them"

I actually find that pretty fucked, as only a half-caucasian. I've been called a wetback and a beaner by ignorant and drunk people, and I would take that over a punch anywhere on my body. But I'm a girl, a little submissive, not much kink. Punching comes easier to the guys.

@23. Fuck yes, Here here! Speaking for myself being half n' half in America has given me a pretty watered-down racial identity. I doubt he has deep-seated hatred of himself. Have a convo. You could start by learning some rap lyrics, which might take the edge off. If you can't do it, get some recordings of racists and have him listen to them in headphones during sex.

Ms H and supporters - Yes, there is that element to it. But there are individual tolerances with this issue. (And being asked to perform Problematic Action X is generally a step up from being asked to receive it.)

It strikes me as perhaps comparable to alcohol. Some people (Mr Kenai, apparently) can say anything in the appropriate context without the trace of a qualm much as some people can drink the whole room under the table and feel no ill effects [NB: as a non-drinker by choice, I apologize in advance for any inaccuracy in the analogy, but hope that at least the spirit of it will get my point across]. Some people have to manage or finesse the issue as some have controls of varying strictness over their drinking; some have no tolerance at all. In this case, it's a psychological tolerance, exemplified by Mr Savage's reference to LW's hypothetical inner k-word.

Also, what hasn't been discussed much (although M? Ernie gives a hint) is that, given the times, what BF is asking could conceivably put LW at risk. LW would be accepting the possibility that he could become known publicly as A White Person Who Said That Word, when a lot of people wouldn't listen for the context. Even while they're blissfully happy, one confidence to a friend in the No-White-Person-Can-Ever-Say-THAT-Word-No-Matter-The-Context-Ever-Ever-Ever-Ever-EVER and it's Let The Stigma Begin. Or, should they break up less than amicably, what's the guarantee BF will be above playing that card? Plenty of women in FF couples who maintained adamantly She's-Every-Bit-As-Much-Our-Child's-Parent-As-I-Am changed tune to That-Woman-Was-Never-More-Than-A-Stranger-To-My-Child when the question turned to custody or visitation. Even without ill will in the case, BF might post-parting remember things just a shade differently to suggest that it wasn't entirely his own fantasy... and then how does that train stop?

Just play a Quentin Tarantino movie in the background during sex.

@41 Did you miss the part where Ophian @17 was explaining what he would be able to deliver (pain, more easily than humiliation) when begged by a partner? Your diatribe about how you'd rather have assholes insult you than punch you isn't relevant to Ophian's point.

As to this: "Punching comes easier to the guys" -- I'm curious whether you mean that men find it easier to be punched than women do? Or that men find it easier to punch other people than women do? I don't think either claim is valid, but I'm curious which you were making.

From a gay black man: It won't make you a racist if you say it, but you're right to be careful and if you're truly too uncomfortable to go through with it you should trade the slur for twenty extra minutes of tongue time and call it even.

Also, what Erica P @44 said.

@40: Grats on aligning yourself with the "I can say nigger because black people do" crowd.

@41: I don't find that fucked at all. I got in a lot of fights as a kid, and people also said hurtful things to me. I mostly remember the fights for getting in trouble afterward- bruises really aren't so bad for me. But I remember the insults much better. I think this is one of those things in which each person's individual personality matters a lot more than any objective standard. I'm a pretty rough-and-tumble girl with a decently high pain tolerance and enough strength to defend myself adequately, so the idea of getting smacked around just doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Also, I think degrees matter. I would find it a lot easier to smack someone around with my bare hands or with mild BDSM implements than call someone a nigger or a cunt, but I'd find it way easier to call someone a slut than to cut them. Maybe I'm more willing to inflict some kinds of pain because I'm more willing to receive the same kinds.

@40: Good point. Yeah, like Dan said, "What could possibly go wrong?"

I'm still coming down on the side of minorities getting to choose what they are called for whatever their reasons are -reclaiming a word, eroticism, sarcasm, etc. I've never been in a situation where it would be at all appropriate for me to use the word (except to discuss the word). If I had a lover like the LW's BF, I could get there, for their sake, but it would be only in that context. And really, they'd have two meanings. For the BF, it sounds like it is about humiliation. For the LW, maybe it could become about fulfilling the BF's request.

@44 From my perspective, knowing how little it hurts to be called words invented by caucasians in antiquity used by horribly stupid caucasians, I find his hand-wringing extreme. I don't see how that's different from calling you a cunt or a whore for jollies. But bruise you up/make you bleed, INFINITELY easier! So yeah, I find it a odd, that's my opinion of his this-or-that hypothetical.

And yeah, that was a dig at male aggresssion. Not to offend the punchy women, I guess.

@47. What you said, I just couldn't as kindly. I deplore violence more than bullying, not that they are mutually exclusive, obviously. I was always a peaceful, scrawny kid in an open-minded environment.

I should say knowing how little racial slurs hurt ME specifically. Having a big integrated family is strange when parts of the country are still so racist. Slurs are silly to me, I could go tit-for-tat with someone who wanted to insult me. Physical assault? Yeah, no I don't stand a chance.

Oh wow. Well, Dan did ask for a debate. I'm with @37: GRUNTED WORDS DURING SEX? MEANINGLESS!! GET OVER THE WHITE GUILT HAND-WRINGING! IT NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!

Seriously: even if it is degrading, some people get off on being degraded. Fantasy play is fantasy play...this is how we know we're older than 7 years old (assuming normal cognitive development). The BDSM analogy is really perfect: it's not ok to go around taking a riding crop to random people. In a dungeon/bedroom where the cropee has asked you to, then it's entirely appropriate. If that's your only hangup, then get over yourself. If you cannot really bring yourself to ever strike another human being under any circumstances, then ok, maybe you can beg off, but I find the level of 'ask' here pretty low.

This is pretty much true for any sexual act you can imagine - what is up with policing what's acceptable transgressive behavior and what isn't? Are we suddenly a pack of Santorii? Logical/values consistency folks...it's really what's for dinner.

TLDR: NO, just because it's the N word, it's not any different from any other dirty talk.

@36: Like. So incisive and sensitive.

I feel many other commenters treat kink (this one and kink in general) as just an extra topping, rather than somehow integral to a sub or a dom's personal identity.

I'm thinking ... if it was a 6-year relationship, I'd definitely say the BF is entrusting the LW with a vulnerable part of his sexual and personal make up; take it or risk losing him. At 6 months, well ... harder to say. It could be a test to see how far this relationship could go.

@ 12 - "No better?" LW's boyfriend is just as entitled to his "emotional harm" kink as other BDSM players are to their "physical harm" kinks. LW writes that he wants to turn his partner on and follows up with "but I just don't know if I can bring myself to use that particular slur." Do you have a reason for not taking him at his word?

If a woman wanted me to pee on her, I could do that.

If a woman wanted me to call her a bitch or slut during sex, I could do that.

If a black woman wanted me to call her "n....." during sex, I could do that.

If a woman wanted me to shit on her, even if I knew it really turned her on, I couldn't do that.

If a woman wanted me to really verbally unload on her (e.g. "you worthless piece of disgusting shit") during sex, even if I knew it really turned her on, I couldn't do that.

If a woman wanted me to hit her during sex, even if I knew it really turned her on, I couldn't do that.

Oh, just do it and say it.
It turns him on and he asked for it.

Surprised nobody has suggested the logical compromise: you prompt, and HE has to say it.

You: *grab hair, etc.* "What are you?"
Him: "I'm your [insert slur here]!"

That makes it so you're responsible for bringing the word into bed, as it were, but he's the one actually verbalizing it. And it's got a built-in consent failsafe: if he's not cool with the way the slurs are being used, he doesn't have to say them.

I'd just see this going wrong, very quickly - just like one partner may be totally fine (or even ask for) something in bed, only to freak out when that transgressive fantasy transgresses a bit further and suddenly crosses a line.