Dan was nice than I'm going to be.

You know why he stays interested in you? Because you put out on cue, don't make demands, don't make him take responsibility for his actions (or his kids), and even though you keep breaking up with him, you run back whenever he snaps his fingers. Don't want to be a doormat? Then don't act like one. For your kids' sake, if not for yours, grow a spine, take him to court, keep your knees together, and start acting like the adult neither one of you seems capable of being. Or, as my husband (a therapist) says, "You attract as healthy as you are." So if this is what you're attracting, it's time to ask why, and (as Dan suggests) start working on yourself before you worry about how to keep this douchebag in your life.
This is definitely one of those "two people who never should have had children" letters. The kids are being denied support and stability so mom & dad can play their fucked up little games. He's a deadbeat and she can't get over herself.
What a gutless pushover. Boohoo, he cheats. Why shouldn't he? She needs to get her own boyfriend to cheat with and stop her crying.
If ever there were an argument for birth control, this one takes it. I shudder to think what those little boys are learning... Let the cycle end.
I feel pity for the writer.

I hope she someday realizes she CAN get much better than the shit she married, and that even being alone is better than him.
Hmmm, she's got two sons who will grow up seeing that women will put up with (and put out for) guys cheating and never taking responsibility, seemingly forever. Awesome.
12 years of that shit ....... god how exhausting
To the writer and anyone that identifies... For your own sake, stop reading these comments right now. Dans advice was enough to swallow. Fuck the rest.
TSM: You asked the following questions:
1)Am I a fool?
A: Yes. You have had 12 years of a pattern and you keep hoping it will change in the face of evidence to the contrary.

2) Is this going to fuck my kids up?
A: Yes. YES. Here's what they see:
A 1) Dad doesn't care about them, doesn't take care of them. Mom struggles to take care of them because Dad won't. In spite of this, Mom apparently prioritizes Dad over them. Mom doesn't value them enough to make sure that anyone she is with also cares about them and values them.
A2) This is the way that men are supposed to treat women. This is the way women let men treat them, or even want men to treat them. This is the model they can (and possibly will) follow as adults.

3) Does he actually love me the way I love him?
A: NO. No he does not. Why/how can you even wonder that? Would you treat him this way? That he treats you differently than you would treat him should tell you that not only does he not love you the way you love him, he DOESN'T LOVE YOU AT ALL.

When you say: "his actions kill me, Dan. Literally kill me. Please give me some advice. I'm dying inside with no one to talk too," what you're saying is that you're committing suicide. For the sake of your children, if nothing else, cut this toxic poison out of your life.
Well, if it really is LITERALLY KILLING HER, then it's too bad she's not alive to read this advice. RIP, letter writer, we hardly knew ye!
Lemme see, he tells you what you want to hear and then goes out and hurts you. You and he alternate between him hurting you and him making up with you. Emotionally abusive. Get out of your on-again-off-again cycling, kick his deadbeat ass to the curb, and ban him from the vaginal premises.
I feel sorriest for the kids. They're learning that this is what a proper relationship looks like, and they're internalizing it whether you like it or not. They'll treat people the way that guy treats LW, because they're learning that Mom thinks it's an okay way to act. Mom, you gotta be better for your boys, even if their father/sperm donor won't. He's using you, and he'll continue to use you for as long as you let him, and your children will pay the price.
"...get your ass to a shrink."

I think Dan could have lead with that one. In fact, I think he could have closed with it too.

I really hope the LW gets better, but the poor life choices she makes are almost certainly having a negative impact on her children. That tempers my sympathy for her quite a bit.
Honestly, no matter what you do, go to a shrink. Your children already don't have a father they can count on, at least give them a mother with her head screwed on.

Oh and seriously, a man who won't be a supportive father to his kids and you're even CONSIDERING taking him back yet again? Is that what you want for your children, honestly? Please, get help to gain perspective.
@10: Alas, "literally" now also means figuratively. For example, look at definition 4 on…

I guess I can now say that the standardization of piss-poor grammar is literally killing me.
You say you love him, even when he keeps hurting you.

Obviously there are parts of him you love.

Here is what you do:

Write down on a piece of paper the things you love about him. Sense of humor, nice ass, taste in music, whatever it is. Put this piece of paper in a safe spot.

Write down on a piece of paper all the ways he has hurt you. Use more paper if you need to. Put this piece or these pieces of paper on the wall next to your bathroom mirror.

Find a lawyer. Drag your once-and-future-ex to court, inform him you are never fucking him again, and demand he pay child support. Do not kiss, cuddle, or fuck him any more.

When your head and heart are a little more clear (if you were 21 the way you act I'd say two years), and you want a partner, look for someone else who has your ex's good qualities. If you like that sense of humor, someone else has that sense of humor but without the toxic douchebaggery.

If the someone else has any of your ex's bad qualities, which you should be reminded of at least twice a day, DTMF and go fishing again.

You keep going back to the ex because in the moments you are happy, you think everything else can be okay. The thing is, in a real relationship, most of the time things are happy and okay. It's not "an evening of cuddles and six weeks of drama and pain and cheating and screaming and douchebaggery."

You can find the cuddling with someone who will also not be an asshat the next day. Yes, you can.
Sounds l
Let me guess, Utah?
to quote mr. savage himself, the good times are just sprinkles on a dog shit sundae.
@ 10 & 15 you're not kidding about the misuse of literally, it drives me figuratively crazy. I heard someone on the radio the other day describe someone uncovering a conspiracy as having "literally uncovered a nest of vipers".

I feel sorry for the letter writer but really sorry for those kids. What a mess. Not very constructive comments on my part.
This woman is TERRIFIED of being alone, even though she literally has been for over a decade, sex notwithstanding. And yet she keeps pining for the shittiest POS there is. DTMFPOSA and get a team of shrinks to try to help you realign your skewed worldview.
1) Apply for Child Support Enforcement, garnish the deadbeat's salary

2) Go get tested for all STDs, including Hepatitis. STOP.FUCKING.HIM. Get tested again in 6 months.

3) Get a vibrator. Fall in love with it. It'll love you more than this POS does.

4) Everytime you think, say "but I love him", tell your mom to pour some disgusting swill over your head!
@10, @15, @20, my favorite was an NPR interviewee who--with respect to drought conditions--said, "we are literally scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel."

Proofreadin' - there should be a space between "gonna" & "hafta" in the first paragraph of the response. Same paragraph, couple of sentences later, the comma should be after "life", not after "sex".

Pick them nits, yes I do..used to do a bunch of editing, & that stuff jumps out at me.

To the LW/TSM: you will find love - or at the very least, lust - again, I promise. But to get healthy, you should be on your own for awhile first. The likely reasons for your attraction to the no-goodnik father of your kids are obvious: history, drama, excitement. But you know this isn't good for you, your kids or your relationship with your family. Definitely get a lawyer, FFS. You have your kids' future to think of & both parents should contribute to their care. Also: you are in a situation that provides you support. Don't fuck it up by getting involved with this toxic man, again. You have some hard work ahead: you've essentially got to unprogram yourself from the punishment-&-then-sweet-reward cycle you have going. But you can, & you should, & you should start right now. you have to feel like you deserve better than this, so, work on that before looking for someone new.

Also, while in the process of getting a lawyer, tell your folks what's going on & just..don't get his texts or calls for a few days while you sort all this out IDK what your child visitation arrangements are, if there are any, but just stick to that and don't get yourself into the familiar situation where you sneak off & see this guy. Your body is 100% yours..why share it with someone who's only gonna cause you pain in the long run? Escape your soap opera. You can do it.

@20: People's misuse of literally makes me want to literally smack a crowbar upside their stupid heads!!
Oh dear. You are still so young. As one of those stupid women who continued with a man, way past when I should have. Here's how I see it. Btw Dan. Great response.
Get away from this man now. Stop all contact. Go thru the grief- and it can be real twisted grief, mine was . Protect and love your boys as you need to, be very thankful you have a loving family to support you.
No contact. Close him out completely. His sons don't need a dick like him as a father.
Do the legal path. Take an order out on him if he harasses
you( which he will, so used to this game- as you are).
You are 30 yrs old. Young. Repair your mind, do some therapy to help you understand why the fuck you have let this bullshit go on. Do not connect with other men till you have strengthened yourself, or you may just attract the same type of man.
Yes, the next yr or so, as you recover,may well be very painful. The alternate, be a dumb arse like me and put up with yrs and yrs of crap, and finally when you pull the plug, much more time has passed and much more damage done. Your call.

We saw that on the Weird Al video.…
And dear girl, you will come out the other side. Life without that rubbish in your life, you will be able to have joy again. Your kids need a mother who is free of such an attachment.. I do understand that you love this man, but he needs to go his own way now, learn his own lessons. Maybe by you standing tall and strong, he may work on himself. Maybe.. Close this relationship down. Now.
Re: literally, it's ironic hyperbole. They're using literally figuratively, for rhetorical effect. Get over it.
@29 It's not ironic, it's just a trendy, lazy habit.
31 the use of "nanosecond" by people who haven't the faintest fucking idea what a nano-anything might be like.

Thank Chaos that seems to be running its course, because that shit literally makes me want to kill people.
Get the Hell away from this POS for the sake of your kids! I´m a child of cheating parents and the drama of break ups/coming together again. That drama created in me and my siblings an uncertainty and an angst that never have left us. I have never trusted a living soul and I probably never will, I´m 56 today.

Your children are worthy of so much better than what you and their deadbeat dad are giving them. Children NEVER do what you say, they do what parents do, children "read and suck in" every emotion they encounter (good and bad) and they are sure they did something bad/wrong to create the turmoil in their life.

Your children lives in an emotional chaos with you, their dad, your moms, his parents?, grandparents? aunts? uncles? and believe me, they are frighten, unsure and don´t know who to trust, what will happens to them and wonder what they did wrong this time.

Give your ex the booth today and create a stable home to your children or you will look forward to tantrum, more drama, skipping school, smoking, drugs, prison....your kids did n´t ask to be born (pregnancy = often no condoms or other protections, drunkenness, believed you could n´t get pregnant when you had n´t had an orgasm, did n´t know intercourse could create children, that was gods job- there is n´t a stupid excuse I have n´t heard) so your first priority is to them not their deadbeat dad. Mika_S

Hi five Dan!
Mika, sorry to read of your pain. Did you mean it is your
Birthday now?
If so, Happy Happy Birthday. 56; a Noble Age.
And yes, you have spoken well of how important it is, protecting and guiding the children.
You live in the US & have 2 kids with someone who won't pay child support. You can't afford a shrink. Maybe codependents anonymous? Is that still around?
@30/31: I meant that that particular usage of "literally" is ironic in that describing something as "literally" so when it is in fact not so creates an incongruity between how the thing is being described (as positively so) and how it actually is (not quite or at all so), which is how irony works.

As for nano-, it's not unusual for technical terms to enter and exit the colloquial lexicon. You should really take a nanosecond to literally chill the fuck out. You are not exactly a paragon of proper English grammar and usage—and language prudes are insufferable even when they aren't shabby hypocrites.
What a fucking idiot (literally).

FFS, why do you hate your kids so much? Because this pattern is going to ruin them.

Best argument for abortion rights I've heard in months. The Republicans are like the deadbeat cheater here - they want all women to be stupid, pregnant, and hopelessly in love like this dumbass.
For "abortion rights" substitute "the Pill". Not that FFS had enough sense to use either. I'd be very surprised if she got her shit together enough to follow Dan's advice and sue the CPOS for child support.

It takes two people to make an ongoing train wreck like this. Unfortunately it's also MADE two people, who are likely to grow up to be deadbeat cheaters themselves. Why not? Seems to work great for their dad.
You know you need to stop seeing him, your question is why is it so hard? Someone else asked this question recently and got this response in the comments (worth reading the whole column and comment thread) “I'm sorry it's hard. I'm sorry your heart will break. But I promise from all the way over here (the east, just outside DC) that the pain of leaving now will be a thousand times better than when it doesn't work out a year from now or a decade from now.”…

There are lots of different reasons it’s hard. Sometimes you’re going to need help and encouragement and coaching and reminding to keep your resolve — that’s one of the things a counsellor can be good for. (And if there is a codependents anonymous around where you are, a sponsor you can call when you’re afraid you’re going to give in.) See also Odysseus and the sirens.…

One of the many reasons it’s hard is that this man has not only known you for your entire adult life, he has dominated it. It’s difficult to imagine a life without him. Rejecting him feels like rejecting the past twelve years of your life. It might help you to remember that you have another fifty years ahead of you to build a new life and a new sense of self — and that both (difficult to believe as it is now) will be better than the ones you have now.

Lots of women have found themselves in the pickle you are in, and lots of women have found their way forward. You will too.
TSM - I recognize a lot of this from my MUCH younger self. I was only stuck three years, and thankfully didn't have children, but the feeling sounds familiar. Here's how I got out:
I recognized (finally) that I had to do something totally different from what I had been trying and failing to do. So I moved 1200 miles away. That worked. Drastic, yes, but the best thing I ever did.
And, yes, I got into counseling - after I moved. I learned that I was depressed and that having external drama distracted me from my inner pain. I also learned how to "sit" with feelings: not act on them, not try to do something to make them go away. Just feel my feelings.The only way out of those feelings is right through them. No over, no under, no around.
Think of it as akin to addiction. It doesn't matter if it seems like you SHOULD be able to get out just by willpower. "Should" isn't anything to do with it. This is consuming the only life you and your children have. Do what it takes to get away.
Therapy, lots of it, for a long time, even though it's hard and you will run in to parts of yourself that scare the shit out of you. I was you ten years ago minus the kids. I 'loved' my ex even though he was certifiable, jobless, and a perpetual cheat. Depression and less than zero self esteem kept me with him because I needed someone to love me so badly that it didn't matter that his love was actually abuse. You and your kids deserve better. Stop listening to what he says and start believing what he DOES. You're healthy enough to realize you're playing pretend. Cling to that part of yourself and to your family and friends who are seeing your situation for what it is--jacked up and damaging to you and your children. There is a better life and a brighter future without this guy, work towards it. And yeah, hire a lawyer and make this deadbeat contribute to the cost of raising his children.
@24 He's not been paying child support, he's not married to her, the likelihood of him having any visitation rights at all is entirely at her mercy. Legally he's got no ground to stand on - sperm donor doesn't give you parental rights, and that's all he's been.

LW What your children are learning from this is that they are worthless and their feelings mean nothing. Also women should be treated like shit and that women's feelings mean nothing. And that life is always highly chaotic and constant tension and distress is normal. If you stay with this guy, you are setting up a pattern in which they will seek the same awfulness in their own lives, because that's all they know.
Just because they are only now getting old enough to remember doesn't mean they haven't already internalized this stuff. You owe it to them and yourself to get rid of this guy, and maybe one day, in a few years when you've learned how to live on your own, find a better man, a guy who actually wants to be a father, who actually wants to be a husband, who actually wants to love you and your kids, who can show you and them that life can actually be good.
Tying some comments together:

Your version of being tied to the mast to prevent yourself dashing yourself on the rocks in response to the siren call could be moving 1200 miles away, as Aurora Erratic @40 did. I like that idea.

Talk to a lawyer about parental rights. You may have more freedom to move out-of-state with the kids if their father has not been paying child support. If you sue him for support and he pays, you may be stuck remaining in the same state with him. Or you might be able to threaten him with suing him for child support if he hassles you about moving away with the kids. Either way, find out.

They can still know their dad — they can go stay with their grandparents for two weeks in the summer, for instance — but they don’t have to watch him jerk you around.
Sexual desire is not the same as love. Emotional dependence is not the same as love. Having the empty spaces in your own soul temporarily filled up by another person's attention is not the same as love.

Please, lady, go to therapy until you have the strength to love yourself, at which point you'll become capable of loving someone else.
Letters like this one always raise so many questions for me. How does someone claim to be a loyal (and apparent long-time) reader of Dan, and not know the answers to all of the questions she is posing? Is this cognitive dissonance? It is complete self delusion? Did she skip all of the DTMFA answers about men who weren't being half as terrible as her dead-beat part-time lover?

I suppose the most logical answer is that the LW ultimately wants to hear it out loud from someone not in her family, but it certainly appears that she is earnest and still confused about her situation. Perhaps @39 is right on target when she suggests that it is difficult for the LW to reject 12 years of her life by rejecting the centerpiece of those 12 years, and I can understand that. But it is certainly not love that she feels for this guy, and it is extremely discouraging to realize that even after 12 years, she doesn't realize that fact enough not to have to write a letter to Dan about it.
I like Alison's perspective @39 and Aurora's advice @40, though moving away from family may be hard. Still, it's probably worth it to break the old habits. I'd decide based on whether your kids have a secure relationship with your family which you don't want to endanger.

The other point I'll make is that two people can love each other and still not be compatible. You don't need to decide that he doesn't love you in order to see that he's no good for you.
Reading this letter makes me aware that most of Dan's letter writers are quite literate. *Most* of them, not all.
Our kids are 3 and 4, and I don't know if I'm going to hurt them in the long run with this kind of behavior.
I think you do know whether your behavior will hurt your kids, else you wouldn't have asked. You're just pretending you don't know so that you can keep going on as you have. So:

1. As a parent, your primary duty is to protect and nurture your kids.
2. Keeping this CPOS in your life is hurting your kids.
3. Fulfill your primary duty.
The constructive advice Dan and others have given is on-target, but I want to point out two things that are glaringly WRONG in this letter.

1. "I love their dad more than anything." WRONG. That's just inexcusable. You chose to bring two children into this world. You damn well better love them more than this CPOS, or anyone else.

2. "we just sort of pretend and play house for a couple days, and then I go home." WRONG. You're "playing house" with the father of your children, and while you play, they get to see neither of their irresponsible parents? You're ditching your kids for days on end to spend time with the CPOS? FUCK YOU, LW.

You have zero sympathy from me. You are as big of an emotional deadbeat mom as the CPOS is an emotional and financial deadbeat. Get the fuck over yourself, your need to fill your twat, and your love of drama. Get yourself in therapy and on medication and try acting like the adult in your relationship with your children.

If you still can't be a responsible parent, give them up for adoption and have yourself sterilized.

And, until you do those things, at the risk of repeating myself, FUCK YOU for being an irresponsible neglectful parent to the two people who love you more than anyone else ever will.
Get an IUD. Now.

You're clearly incapable of handling the responsibility of being a good parent. The first step to being a good mother: choose your sperm donor wisely. You've failed, big time. You've also failed to keep your children in a stable environment and protect them from a drama-ridden home life.

Your babydaddy is an objectively awful person. A cad, a shit-heel, a scoundrel, a fuckup, a deadbeat, an asshole, a manipulator, probably a narcissist.

But you say you love him more than anything. More than your own children? If you actually love this scumbag more than you love your own children that means you are an objectively awful person just like him. Fix yourself before you do any more damage to your kids.
I don't think she has two Moms, guys. I think she left out the apostrophe in "Mom's house". Its amusing that nobody has caught that!
When you say "go to a shrink" I hope you include psychologists in that category. I find psychologists give useful, practical feedback. I stopped with psychiatrists after getting sick of hearing "How does that make you feel?" after every issue I brought into a session. It's a valid question, but after the 1,001st time hearing it, it was no longer effective.
Also, doesn't this make anyone else really sad? Why so much tough love/hate? Why so many unrealistic solutions? She probably can't afford therapy. She probably isn't going to get much from reading the Oddessy. She's a (physically at least) grown up version of the kids you guys are worried about. And of course she should kick this dickhead to the curb, but his child support probably won't cover her diaper bill. Let Dan's advice stand, it was real. Have a little compassion, eh?
How about trying something different. This doesn't sound like a traditional marriage/relationship and you are seemingly okay with his cheating.

My advice is to look at what a open/poly marriage looks like (which is harder than any other kind) but if you want him in your life, you might have to start accepting his needs and pushing for your own. The word Compersion comes to mind ...

'Compersion n : the feeling of taking joy in the joy that others you love share among themselves, especially taking joy in the knowledge that your beloveds are expressing their love for one another, the term was coined by the Keristan Commune in San Francisco which practiced Polyfidelity, Kerista disbanded in the early 1990's'

Other people shouldn't have opinions except perhaps concerns over how the children are being treated during separation or anger between partners. So, GROW UP - make sure the children are insulated from your adult behaviors and decide for yourself how you want your life to look.

But of course the flip side is that sometimes disrespectful as***les need to be kicked to the curb - know the difference and save yourself the ongoing and future heartache.

Communication is the key to any successful relationship monogamous or polyamorous and disrespect is off the table. Love thyself, know thy limits, protect the innocent, ignore the peanut gallery and keep that stuff to yourself and your husband.
You have already screwed your kids up. You need to chose; your children or your "love".

You spent more time talking about his cheating than about the fact that the father of your children doesn't support them, take them to the park, or help raise two innocent babies. I don't know if you have mental health issues or just never got out of the high school dating scene but this is not normal and you are screwing up your kids every single day. Adults take care of their responsibilities and actually want to be with their kids. Your family thinks that you are an idiot and are tired of cleaning up your mess. They see the uncertainty in your kids eyes when you walk out the door. They see the kids clinging to their toys when their home life keeps changing. Your kids know that you love him more than them. If I was your mother or sister, I would take custody away from you until you finally grow the fuck up.

Sometimes people can act addicted to someone. Go to a therapist, move out of state, or go to a 12 step group. Just stop saying that this is killing you is more drama. If you need help, sign yourself in for a 72 hold in a mental health facility. You probably will get some medication to help you get to a good place to make decisions. Either way isn't 12 years of this crap enough? Put your kids first.
This letter is pretty damn white trashy but having come from a better-educated version of this cycle (my late grandfather was by all accounts an abusive gaslighting ass, but my grandmother had her shit together more than you currently do): this bullshit can not only fuck up your children, but your grandchildren as well.

I think you have a low-functioning personality disorder. Get your ass in therapy and on meds. The kids will probably be better off raised by grandparents. :-|
Yes AllisonM@54; this story makes me very sad. I've had this young woman on my mind. Ok, dear girl, if you can't afford therapy, find a women's group. It could be a discussion group, or knitting, crocheting; get with some women , and the talk will come. Use this group as your heart strengthener- away from the man, the kids and your family of origin.
Music.. I hope it is part of your life/ cause it sure speaks to us and makes us whole. Lots of breakup music out there: BobDylans" Blood on The Tracks". For a sweeter voiced sound- that sexy boy who sings on the Black Keys latest CD( sorry forget the name), well- his pain and working thru to getting his life back for himself makes for great music. And Bobby Dylan's lament- that's a
Hard one to listen to some times, but Bobby's poetry is just full.
Play music if you can; join a choir, so you get to
sing( always sing along with music- so you practice your voice ). Put music on and dance with your little princes - and they don't stay princes for too long, so enjoy it while you've got it.
Use your body. Swim in the ocean, if you can. No man compares to that feeling of immersion in the sea. Play Tennis, basketball, netball: walk. Whatever, but use your body .
As you strengthen, you will see what a waste of time that story is that you are acting out with this guy. Words are cheap, his actions
Well, not conducive to rearing children well. So you gotta ditch him. If he wants to pull his finger out and MAN up, let him do it on his own time.. You've got real work to do rearing those boys well, and while their father is of no help, he needs to be out of the picture .
When you become the Woman you are proud of, look around. Find a good, developed , sensitive , fair and loving man to hang with. Be brave. One step at a time. But you gotta be heading in the right direction.
TMS, I spent years in a similar situation, with a man who was married. It was the most powerful love of my life, and 95% of it was misery, but that 5% was composed of the happiest moments I'd ever lived. Those moments keep alive the fantasy (and it is a fantasy) that if you could just change a couple things, like making him REALIZE how much his behavior hurts you, you could enjoy that bliss all the time. But you can't.
In therapy I eventually realized that the all-consuming, obsessive nature of that love had more to do with my parents than it did with the guy himself. I think the loves that pull those old childhood strings are often the most powerful, but it doesn't mean they're more "true." If you give yourself the chance (by getting away from this guy), you'll hopefully one day discover what a healthy love without all the drama feels like, and you'll be amazed that you put up with that crap for so long.
And as a couple of commenters have already noted, one would hope you love your KIDS as much (if not more) than their father. Often we can do hard things for the sake of our children that we can't manage to do for ourselves. Bite the bullet, cut him off, and when you're tempted to "play house", think about how much that behavior screws up your kids. Good luck.
LW : your love is attachment. You have to get away from the guy in order for it to weaken : stop all contacts. And that will hurt, and you'll want to go back to him when you hurt, because that's what attachment is all about. But you mustn't.

Your kids are attached to you as strongly, or even more, as you're attached to their father. Don't you want to not make your own kids die inside, everytime you're playing house with their shitty sperm donor, and leave them behind ?

You have to stop being attached to a POS. You can do that, you're an adult. And you've got to take better care of your sons. They deserve a happy, well balanced mother. What your future ex-husband (because you're going to divorce this POS) is now doing to your feelings, you're doing to theirs. But they can't run away from being hurt by you. So stop hurting them. Leave the POS forever.
@59, I had been hoping she wasn't reading the comments. But I hope she reads yours.
I'm going to wager strongly that this fucking train wreck lives in the South East USA: the Bible Belt where morons like this thrive and asshole men can smell them a mile away. This idiot is terrified of being alone like someone said above.

I skipped most of the comments because they're unrealistic and she'll never listen if my experiences with others like her are any indication. She'll keep making excuses for the piece of shit, keep deluding herself that he loves her/ they're in love and will defend his shitty behaviour at every opportunity she gets. All so she can talk about and feel smug about 'having a man'. In true fashion, she's also against birth control, thinks abortion is evil and probably spouts BS at her parents like 'I'm an adult don't tell me what to do' or 'I'm their mommie,I know what's best for them'. You're also 'high school sweethearts' and the thought of giving up that whole fantasy is just devastating to your small brain

Do I have any advice for this idiot? Maybe: kindly sterilise yourself and find someone to adopt those kids so they'll have a chance at being decent people before you completely ruin them. Letter writer ALREADY knows this dude doesn't 'love' her and will never marry her/end up with her because she makes it too convenient for him. Where's the incentive? She's already fucking him and already has kids for him. What else is there? You,letter writer, are a walking billboard for birth control and if I knew you, I'd be right behind DFCS when they show up at your door. I have no empathy for you. After 12 years of this shite,you should know better. Instead,you're writing to Savage to validate your shitty choices and your shitty co-dependence. Please, don't have any more kids for THEIR sake.
@64: It's not just the bible belt. It happens in most any small town where expectations are low, there's not much movement to and from larger towns, and expectations for people you've known forever are through the floor.
If you do not love your yourself, just think of your kids... Because I can see where this is all headed...TO THE LAND OF STD's. Best check yourself before you wreck urself!
If you do not love your yourself, just think of your kids... Because I can see where this is all headed...TO THE LAND OF STD's. Best check yourself before you wreck urself!
I was sorta in the same situation as you, My husband started cheating on me when we were married 11 years (that I know of) I stayed with him "because of the kids" and I loved him so much that I thought their wasn't anyone who could love me like he did. Well honey was I wrong. One day about 7 years ago, I was forced to be away from him for a little while and he left me again. I wasn't here to chase him and beg him back on a daily basis. When I came back home, He stayed away, I started "dating" casually. In 2013, I met a wonderful man who absolutely swept me off my feet and has shown me how a real man treats women. This past Spring, I filed for divorce and haven't looked back. I have NO REGRETS! You need to get rid of the loser, because once a cheater, always a cheater! He will lie and try to manipulate you, but DO NOT let him. Honey, there is life out there, you just have to take the first step!
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