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People belong to categories, but they're individuals FIRST. If you click so well with this guy, don't worry about his age. (Do be kind, though.)
However, this might be a case where the genders are equal, but not symmetrical. A clumsy pass by a male [to a female] is often quite different from a clumsy pass by a female [to a male].
In any case, LW: when a young man brings you coffee--and conversation--in bed the morning after not having sex with you, it means he's into you. Make a move, or ask him.
LW; age is irrelevant ! Say that to yourself ..
Now, just front this Man, and say straight up, that you have feelings for him. Romantic feelings. Dan is not that up on the ways of MF courtship.
Yes, may be old fashioned, but this guy didn't jump you, so maybe a little bit of courtship is what is needed..
So, nice and slow. If, this guy is not interested, then it can be just a hiccup , in what sounds like a pretty cool connection..
Or maybe he's just shy in that respect. I know that for me to make the first move, sometimes it helps if the lady makes the first move first.
Make a move on his boner.
*****
I am actually going to hope now that LW does use the F word and that, whether the recipient is or isn't interested in her, he has a gay twin brother, takes offence and never speaks to her again. Casual anti-gay slurs in the interest of heterosexual conjugation is a major Don't.
Make of that what one will.
If you absolutely must call me something that will let you snicker at me behind my back, I can be entirely good-humoured about being called a drama queen. Mr Savage called me thus once, and I felt honoured. But this is the last civil answer anyone addressing me in the insulting way of #14 is ever going to receive. Please don't do so again.
You are a Brazen Hussy!
@ don't read anywhere she's going with " an older man".
I understand your point, but still, I think "Hey Faggot" was a net positive in its day as it took the shame out of the word, at least for those without lasting traumatic associations. It said "Yes, I'm a faggot, so what?" When you consider how the N-word is used in hip hop, one might speculate that reclaiming slurs is a natural step in the progression of acceptance for minorities.
And yes, it was also good marketing.
Gotta be gay.
Either that or you breeders have become so uptight about sex that both of you were too afraid to initiate anything, regardless of how obvious an opportunity you had conspired to arrange. Our species is doomed if neither of you can manage to grow a spine.
Nice. Note that for many people seriousness implies permanency, and I believe many people even consider permanency more important than seriousness.
I seldom dish about my own personal life / past, because I have kind of a big online mouth & I respect my partners' privacy. But since she's wavering, let me add my experienced two cents..
BTS: DO IT. I was in your exact same shoes. I was 30, he was 19 & I thought it was going to be a weekend fling that wound up lasting about a year & a half. It was so hot! & so sweet, initially. & when he wasn't anymore, we broke up. But there was a good period of time where we were both genuinely smitten with each other. We spent most of our free time in bed. I was upfront with him that it wasn't going to last forever, as we both would fit better with people more at the same stage of life. Was fun while it lasted & I was very clear & patient about what actually worked, as opposed to what he'd been seeing in porn. So I smile to myself sometimes thinking that somewhere, there's likely been another few (at least) physically satisfied women out there who should raise a glass to me. ;)Make sure to be open to whatever the reaction will be: he might not be flirting (though like Dan does, I think he is) & y'never know, he might teach you something new.
Somewhere I still have a couple of pictures of him.
& BTS..if you're reading this..I don't think us Sloggers would mind if you checked back in to let us know what happened. ;) You know, for research reasons.
Since I recently had some guy in a truck on a local highway - I live in Northern VA - drive next to me, pointing at my car, yelling "fag!" at me repeatedly as he passed me, I kinda lean towards Mr. Vennominon's feelings at @16 about that word.
Say as ye will, I'm no thought police. It's not my favorite, though Dan has used it well.
Dr Sean - Not really all that comparable, are they? It's not as if it's a word we get to be the only ones to use, which would be marginally palatable. It is to Mr Savage's credit, though, that he doesn't actively push other same-sexers to welcome straight usage of the F word.
I had this all out with Mr Ank in a long thread about Mr C K. Mr Ank eventually admitted that hearing the F word used did give him a miniscule pleasurable jolt referring back to his anti-gay (arguably with cause) youth. Common usage gives cover to really obnoxious people who get to laugh at us while pretending they're laughing with us. I don't see sufficient compensation for that in any benefit; others may well disagree.
Ms Hopkins - Not a fun experience while driving; I entirely sympathize.
I don't know what conversion training is like, but I imagine if I was forced against my will to go someplace where I was berated by a "professional" using the same language as schoolyard bullies taunted me with (perhaps before beating me up), in an attempt to change my very nature and make me be someone I wasn't, at my parents' insistence, that I'd be extremely sensitive to that word's use.
I think these two particular slurs are actually relatively close to each other in terms of their cultural intensity, when you consider the full range of historical slurs that exist. When you look at outdated terms like "wop" or "mick", for example, you can see how words that once really stung have now come very close to being nothing but quaint historical curiosities. The same will happen for these two terms. And new ones might take their place. Language changes. But the phenomenon of in- and out-groups never goes away.
The way you did it didn't look friendly at all. For a further explanation, read Nocutename's post @ 32, first paragraph.
Gotta be gay.
So glad I'm not the only one that had this reaction or thought this. If she were a Mrs. Robinson - say a 2+ decade age spread - then I'd buy (maybe) the notion that he's just shy or timid or whatever...but at roughly a decade? And they're classmates and somewhat peers? I dunno...that's a pretty man-whore-y age range for young men.
the update link-'what almost 21 said', is not working! It takes us to 'comments'. Please fix; the suspense is killing me!
Except that despite black people in hip hop using the N-word, white people still, as a general rule, can't get away with calling a black person the N-word.
Yet everyone thinks it should be fine to call a gay person the F-word. It's not an equal situation. If it were a matter that gay people are using the F-word amongst themselves the way that some black people use the N-word that's one thing. But straight people always use the fact that black people use the N-word as some justification that they should be able to use the F-word.
Go use the N-word towards a black person if you are white if you dare. If not then why would you think it OK to use the F-word towards a gay person?
My initial thought was: yes, that's how he feels too. Men are equally anxious about facing rejection, so it's a kindness to make the first move once you know how you feel. You're not taking any greater risk in asking than he would be.
My next thought was: it's possible that he has a secret, which getting sexually intimate with you would require him to share. He may be transgender, or have an unusual fetish, or a birth defect, or be married, or have some trauma overshadowing everything else in his life. He may have been raped. So go gently, and if he does turn you down, or give you an ambiguous answer, don't take it personally. Just try to remain close to him and let him open up when he's ready.
Or he's just not into her that way, gay or straight, with or without a secret.
Really? I've never heard straight friendlies use the F-word unless maybe they've achieved insider status or if it's used in the service of ribald humor of the sort popular among my burner friends (most of whom are considered trusted insiders by the gays in our group anyway). Even in that context, I've rarely (if ever) heard the term used.
Misuse of the F-word may not have the quite the same level of stigma as the N-word, but I think it still carries a sizable cargo of awkwardness. See, for example, this thread.
@EricaP: I did think it was odd that Dan told the LW to use that term
I read that as self-deprecating humor, not something intended to be taken literally.
I do agree that "faggot" and "nigger" are comparable, but that is not to say equivalent, and I believe that gay people are much closer to being "white" than I think black people will be even 50 years from now.
The point is that I have definitely heard straight people use it, some meaning it to be derogatory and some not. I have also heard people who you know mean it derogatory but claim that it isn't because gay people use it too just so they can get away with saying it without accepting that it is a bigoted thing in their own minds.
If you have never heard it used by straight people who claim that it is OK to use and no insult meant then you live in a very privileged environment. But you seriously have never heard the argument that it should be OK to use? Because that argument is out there. The idea gets bandied about time and again.
Regarding word reclamation, the amount of people who are "allowed" to call me a fag is very very small and it's only in specific circumstances. It's good for me in that I get to hear the word in a positive and controlled way.
Re: word reclamation - I'm white, my husband is black and I never ever use the n-word, even when I've been given "permission." To each their own, but my moral code says that white folk just shouldn't.
@27 - Eva it's good to hear from you. :-)
Yes, I basically live in Sodom and rarely leave unless it's to go to Gomorrah. We definitely see bridge and tunnelers come in and use the term as a slur, but allies seem to understand the nuances, and none of them would argue that gay people have to tolerate the term because they use it themselves.
@ven: hearing the F word used did give him a miniscule pleasurable jolt referring back to his anti-gay (arguably with cause) youth
I entered college in the late 80s, just as gay acceptance was starting to gain steam and promptly made my first out gay friend, a 28-year old "towny" I met through work. He'd often refer to men (including me) as a "big fag" and/or "slut". I thought he was hilarious and I loved (and identified with) his irreverence. I credit him with planting the idea that men are by and large total sluts, and that's OK. I felt like Dorothy in Oz that whole year (except with women, drugs, and sophomoric philosophical debates, oh my!). It was a different sort of "pleasurable jolt".
We got along great, talked, watched movies, walked the dog, had dinner, went grocery shopping, quietly read books together... I was losing my mind with how attracted I was to him, but assumed if he hadn't made the pass then he wouldn't be interested.
Until one day I got sick of it all and cuddled up next to him making it pretty clear that I was interested. Sure enough, one thing led to another...
It was a fairly brief relationship, but it was lovely. He was truly kind and interesting and we had tons of fun. The sex was incredible! So, go for it girl. I know it is cliche, but he's probably just shy/intimidated around you.
We got along great, talked, watched movies, walked the dog, had dinner, went grocery shopping, quietly read books together... I was losing my mind with how attracted I was to him, but assumed if he hadn't made the pass then he wouldn't be interested.
Until one day I got sick of it all and cuddled up next to him making it pretty clear that I was interested. Sure enough, one thing led to another...
It was a fairly brief relationship, but it was lovely. He was truly kind and interesting and we had tons of fun. The sex was incredible! So, go for it girl. I know it is cliche, but he's probably just shy/intimidated around you.
Chances are if he didn't make a move is that he was unsure, just as you were. Age or experience doesn't negate confusion in how to proceed in relationships. You can only figure things out if you use your words.
It was the best decision! I appreciated his lack of jaded disillusionment. He adored my independence and self-sufficiency. What he found in me was something many younger women haven't achieved yet. We often talk about how the dynamic between an older woman and younger man is highly synergistic. Of course, if the guy is an immature youngster, it doesn't quite have the same appeal.
Lastly, the age difference also makes for an amazing sexual experience.
It was the best decision! I appreciated his lack of jaded disillusionment. He adored my independence and self-sufficiency. What he found in me was something many younger women haven't achieved yet. We often talk about how the dynamic between an older woman and younger man is highly synergistic. Of course, if the guy is an immature youngster, it doesn't quite have the same appeal.
Lastly, the age difference also makes for an amazing sexual experience.
Yes. It’s a thing. Lots of young men prefer sexual relationships with confident and experienced older women — sometimes much older. Women who know what they want and don’t play games.