Comments

1
I think it can't be a coincidence that this incident and its upsetting aftermath began with the LW mentally going back to a period when she experienced hell living with her unpleasant mother.

Dan's advice is good, as far as how to manage the relationship with the receptionist. But I would encourage the LW to get some psychological therapy as well as her physical therapy.
3
Staring into the backside of a woman's Escherpants, I could easily imagine getting trapped in an endlessly looping visual of a canned ham falling.
4
Agree with your answer, Dan. Words or note . However, I would suggest mentioning the Mother link. It's the truth and helps make sense of why the staring continued.
5
Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever absentmindedly stared in the direction of some lady's tits or ass.

That's probably because my brain's Tits and Ass Alert System would have immediately sounded, rousting me from my day dream and bringing the tits or ass in question to my immediate attention.
6
this must be what the bottom of the letter barrel looks like.



if not, we don't want to see it...
8
Though SeanDr, staring at the TV screen and ads, nobody notices. And some breasts are so nicely displayed.
Think enjoying breasts especially, crosses the gender divide.
9
Oh, fess up! You really were staring at her tits! People can tell the difference between zoning and letching, sugar!
10
I'm puzzled as to why the young person didn't clear her throat or move her chair six inches or something - do something to break the visual spell. I've noticed that a lot of people have suddenly become acutely aware of how they're leched-on by others and are not always justified in their awareness. There's a distinct difference between the zoned-out look of a person's eyes and the focus of someone who's inappropriately homing in on a physical attribute. Being quick to respond to what was not intended doesn't do anyone any good, as we see here.
11
Ms Erica - Do you think any Gertrude Awards are in order?
12
This lady sounds reeeeally paranoid and a little disturbed. One co-worker saying "I understand" to another is all about you? One mild maybe misunderstanding sends you into a tailspin of hysterical defensiveness?

You may want to look into some therapy of a non-physical sort.

People sometimes accidentally stare at a chest, man or woman, gay or straight. It's usually uncomfortable but most people know it's not a world ending incident as long as you're not being an aggressive creep. The fact that you can't just shake it off as such is pretty weird.
13
I wish I had a dollar for every time I zoned out and accidentally stared at someone without meaning to. It happens, hopefully she will understand.
14
Chi type,



You are going to analyze someone based on a letter? The whole situation was a misunderstanding, but I would be upset about it as well. And maybe the "I understand" was not about the LW. Shit, this incident would make me a bit paranoid as well, and I would probably jump to that conclusion.



You are a judgmental prick. I think you are the one who needs a shrink. This LW just needs to clear the air so she can go on.
15
Good lord, how did this person make it to 40?

Misunderstandings, over-sensitive people--these are things that exist in life. Why is it so important that every person you ever encounter, even people who don't mean a thing to you or you to them--must know what a Nice Person you are? Go to your PT, get better, avoid eye contact, and don't give it another thought. As far as problems go, this doesn't rate at all--it's nothing.
16
I'm a strong believe in not clearing the air over petty things like that. Usually the other person has already brushed it off and bringing it up again only makes it worse. If I had a dime for every time someone stared at my D cups (they still look great at 37) or my cute little ass I would be a millionaire. Plus, I always assume that maybe it wasn't intentional- just looking down, saw a penny on the floor, zoning out in a food coma, wondering if mine are real (they very much are real). Fucking whatever. Get over it.



I've actually been sexually harassed and I don't feel harassed if someone looks at my ass or tits for more than a passing glance. I feel harassed if someone grabs them- which has happened. I felt harassed when someone asked me if I was a stipper at an upscale stripclub when I was working as a receptionist at the gym. I felt harassed when a gym patron, yelled across the gym: hey it's that receptionist with the great tits. I felt harassed when a female friend grabbed my tits on a street corner. But a lingering glance? That happens on the regular for me.



Then again, I am a former party girl/club kid. I'm used to being ogled and hearing comments from gay guys, straight guys, gay girls, straight girls. Whatever. I guess that's why I'm not uptight about the lesser offenses, b/c I've been treated so much worse. You would have to be pretty uptight to assume that someone looking at your tits was a lesbian and not just distracted for a minute. If a woman looks at my tits I might even assume she's comparing-not that she wants to fuck me. If this receptionist isn't a nutbag she's not thinking about a random, petty offense from weeks ago.
17
@LavaGirl: Indeed, but let's be careful not to sell short the female ass in all of this.
18
Dan's answer is thoughtful and compassionate.

@9, 12, 15 are assholes.
19
What is wrong with absent-mindedly staring off into space? Are we supposed to perpetually police ourselves to make sure that no person ever enters said space? By definition, such a thing is impossible. We need to admit a right to be looking at nothing in particular, whether people are in that space or not. Being considerate need not be some steep demand dominating every moment we spend in public. You have to point your head somewhere.
20
Sometimes, a 66 yo person finds themselves suddenly on grindr overshooting their 25 year young partner and arranging a sexual encounter with a 15 year old. No fault, well, except for that wholestatutory rapey thing.
21
I posted a comment, but it looks like it did not go through, so I am posting again.
#15, you are a fucking asshole, straight up. You look like you came over from Youtube, the most vile place on earth for Internet comments. As someone who knows the LW--she let a few of us in on this--she is even-keeled and a good person, that is how she made it to 40, #15, you know-nothing shit stain. Some of you want to hold it against her that she has issues with her mom? Half the fucking people on the planet have issues with their mothers, some bad, some not so bad. I have issues with my mom and my dad.
The problem is the receptionist. I think that she is may be a bit of a prude and I agree with #19, but that may be somewhat or completely wrong on my part considering the World Health Organization reports that one out of every three women on the planet have been sexually assaulted. So we do not know what the story with the receptionist is, and that is why Dan, IMO, did not judge her or mock her. Some of your comments are appalling, i can see why we have such a problem with talking about this stuff. I hope none of you who have been horrible here ever encounter any rape survivors.
LW told me that this would not have even phased her if it happened to her, that she gets it all the time, as do I. But we are older and more worldly. But she also knows that not all people respond to these things the same way because she is empathetic, unlike a few of you fucking assholes on here.
22
Haha. I see the LW isn't the only sensitive one.

Sorry to offend but I was merely trying to offer the possibly helpful observation that some therapy might be in order if trifles like that cause a response like this:



"You can go back the past forty years of my life and no other person would level such a complaint against me. I feel like I have been falsely accused of sexual harassment, even though no one has accused me. But I know the deal: she does not want to be around me. And now, I do not want to go back. Fine.

However, I feel like shit. I now feel self-conscious when I talk to people that I barely know, and I am not even making eye contact when I talk to strangers and acquaintances because I do not want to be accused of sexual harassment or labeled as a predator."
23
"Dr" Chi, if you were savvy enough to know who does and does not need therapy, you would be savvy enough to know that being "sensitive" is not a bad thing. Stop putting others on the couch and analyze your own responses on here. This incident just happened a week ago, ffs. Time will give LW a more objective POV.
24
@ 22, "trifles" like respecting other people? She justifiably feels like shit because she's sensitive to other people's feelings. You could learn more from her than she from you, I'm thinking.
25
Haha. Okay you guys win.
Totally rational response. She should pour out that speech I quoted above to the probably baffled receptionist. That'll ease any tensions.
26
Dan! I'm surprised at you! Victim blaming that poor woman for wearing an Escher print on her ass. Women should be able to wear Escher on their asses without fear of an ocular groping.

Kidding of course.

I'm pretty good at keeping my eyes up when talking to an attractive woman. But one time a pretty cashier at a restaurant had a) an open collared shirt unbuttoned to show a lot of cleavage, b) a huge chest tatoo that went from the tops of her breasts to her collar bones, and c) great boobs. She caught me looking and gave me a really dirty look. Come on! I'm only human!
27
@21; you are being a tad over the top. I think @25 does have a point. I think EricaP also suggested it, ie; therapy.
I can understand the LWs unease around this specific woman. To take it out to the general population? A little over reactive, IMO.
28
^Another 'net shrink heard from.^
"Taking it out on the general population." Really??? You and I did not read the same letter. LW is just fine, I can assure you. Some of you OTOH....
29
@22: It may be a trifle, but it is an ongoing trifle, one that seemingly gets replayed in some fashion every time the receptionist sees her. You seem to have missed the part where the receptionist continues to be hostile. Personally I think that's a pretty shitty characteristic in a receptionist.



This was not a case of harassment, but treating everything that remotely resembles it as the real thing is going to end up costing the business its customer base.



I also think a little air clearing would not be a bad thing. LW does not need to go into her personal issues with her mother, but it probably would be helpful to tell the receptionist that the blouse reminded her strongly of something from her past, and for a moment she was transported there. That she was snapped out of the memory by noticing that the receptionist was uncomfortable and that she regrets having done that.



If the receptionist can't or won't take her at her word, THEN find another gym.
30
@26: I think the appropriate response at that point would be "Nice tattoo."
31
@29: Well if it makes you feel any better I'd tell a receptionist writing in with a 500 word rant about how someone looked at her chest for 30 seconds the week before last that she may need some therapy too.

And so I'll bid you all adieu with this thought: therapy, many of us could maybe use some.
33
@28 your friend wrote: "I feel like shit...I am not even making eye contact when I talk to strangers and acquaintances"

You may be too close to her to see that she's not really fine.
34
@26; that is such a catch22. A woman exposing her breasts , and then going mad at one for noticing.
Don't know what your problem is, lady@28, I'm guessing though, that your friend might be pretty displeased that you have high jacked the comments to her letter.
Maybe you should just back the hell off.. And suggest you too, go chat with a therapist, bout this trigger temper of yours.
35
Yes, I think we definitely have at least one Gertrude Award.
36
Wow, the nasties are out today @18 @21 -- projection?

Suggesting LW might be a bit overly sensitive about this and perhaps might want to examine why she's so freaked out does not make you a shit, nor does it reduce your compassion for the LW. She could follow Dan's advice *and* get some help.

The receptionist also needs some help. The amount of time it takes to book an appointment and hand the receipt is probably 60sec tops. People zone out all the time when they are tired and in pain. Assuming it's about her and giving a dirty look -- not professional. If you're in a public position / customer service you shouldn't get hit on, but some measure of being stared in your direction at for many possible reasons is quite common and not a big deal, goes with the job.
37
I think the LW, her friend, Dan and every commenter here has missed the most important thing: she was in a bicycle/truck collision bad enough that she needs physical therapy. That is a near death experience; a bullet whizzing past your ear or - as she's actually injured - one passing through her shoulder. Of course she is emotionally strung out and over reacting, and flashing back to childhood trauma. Or hell, starring absentmindedly at someone's breasts immediately after treatment that makes her reflect on the collision.



Problem is, we don't see collisions as the life changing traumas they are - even as we experience them.



And the receptions should deal gently as she can with people many of whom will have had emotional trauma along with their physical injuries.
38
The secretary was being a hung-up judgmental prude.



The LW is overreacting to the secretary being a b*tch.



@26 - yes! That's a pet peeve of any straight man. If you dress sexy, you are asking for it - the "it" being the occasional overlong glance. Not rude leering, not unwelcome comments. A little bit tangential to the LWs situation, but glad you said it.
39
I, too, know the pain of being incredibly fucking sensitive about every interaction you have with everyone.
40
So easy - just apologize and say you were drifting off. It's an easy one to forgive, most women have been subject to more explicit scoping out and still manage to conduct their day.
41
Happens to me ALL the time.



You should tell her the shirt was triggering and make her feel bad.
42
could always ask the receptionist what her problem is
43
I agree that the LW is over-reacting, but in a way that is actually sweet and endearing, so nothing to be ashamed of. We've all been there... innocent miscommunication, you could have laughed it off easily in the moment, but you don't quite realize the impact of it until later, and then it's hard to address without running the risk of making it seem even worse. I am thinking @26 and I may have encountered the same woman, as I have gotten snapped at by a woman in a low-cut top after inadvertently staring at the giant, eye-catching tattoo on her breasts... and I'm a gay guy.

The LW's friend (@21, 23, & 28), on the other hand, is over-reacting in a way that is nasty and embarrassing. I had such a baffled reaction after reading "#15, you are a fucking asshole, straight up. You look like you came over from Youtube, the most vile place on earth for Internet comments", and then scrolling back to the perfectly reasonable, level-headed and non-offensive comment that was actually #15... I kept thinking it must have been a typo and they meant to refer to someone else! If I encountered anything half that thoughtful in YouTube comments, I'd die of shock.
44
welcome to what it's like to be a male - ever since that walking in NYC video I've been trying hard to not make eye contact, etc. I guess if I want to date someone we need to have our parents introduce us at church. Just remember to not interact with others - they're not attracted to you, or like you, or want to get to know you or anyone else. Everyone gets to hate everyone. yucks. my hippy parents and I used to sing songs about everyone holding hands!
45
First off, it is much more likely that such a mental rabbit hole would cause the letter writer's eye-lasers to burn holes through the receptionist's unreceptive chest, than for this to have to appeared like any sort of zoning violation.



It is almost always worse to pursue someone who feels wronged like this, even to proffer an explanation and apology, than it is to just suck it up and accept that there is one more person in the world thinking you're an asshole.



The receptionist is offering the assistant as a reasonable path of communication, however, and the letter writer can relate the story, express her mortification, ask for an method of reconciliation and offer to change medical providers if there is no other way to make things okay.
46
Dan, you wished you were dead?? Did I misread that?
47
I agree with LavaGirl, everyone stares at nice boobs. People need to get over themselves. One of my male friends was ogling me, and I kind of elbowed him, and he said, "sorry, but you have a nice rack." Yeah, when I put the girls out there, people will take a gander. No harm, no foul. So even if the

LW had been staring, are we not allowed to look at each other now? I've switched providers to avoid nasty office staff, and advise the LW to do the same and accept that some people will dislike you for no good reason.
48
This whole thing - incident, letter, comment thread - is hilarious. It's likely watching a nuclear chain reaction of comedy. Or should I say "over-reaction"?

The receptionist may have overreacted (people sometimes stare by accident, it doesn't mean they're creeps). The LW most likely over-interpreted her behavior (most things are not about you). And yeah, she may have PTSD; if not, this is all much ado about nothing.

I think if the LW was capable of casually disarming the tension by saying "hey, sorry if I made you uncomfortable the other day, I kinda zoned out because your blouse reminded me of something and it may have looked like I was staring at you" she would have done so already. Instead I think she should just show the receptionist what she wrote Dan and the entire comment thread. If THAT doesn't fix it, nothing will.

And I'm guessing tessa @21 doesn't just have issues with her mom and dad.
49
Oh the places I have vaguely parked my eyes while thinking! It's good to know that I'm not alone, honestly. I'm not traumatized by any fabric patterns and the receptionist is not my preferred romantic-sexual flavor, and I still totally could have done this.

I think the receptionist is overreacting. She could just as easily have some lunch on her shirt as be the victim of harassment in this situation.
50
I think #15 does have a point. The LW seems to be assuming a lot about a person she barely knows, and is obsessing over an incident that's probably long forgotten. Maybe the receptionist is being icy, or maybe she's just doing her job.

I'm wondering the LW might have PTSD from her accident. Being hit by truck sounds really scary and traumatic, and talking to a therapist could be helpful.
51
Ms Lulu - Not everyone.
52
@38: While I agree with you, I at least hope you acknowledge that some of us can't help but "dress sexy" because clothes that are demure on normal people look "sexy" on large-breasted women. Also, if you're staring overlong, I hope you're embarrassed when the woman brings it to your attention. Not traumatized for life, but suitably embarrassed.
53
@44 You do realize the difference between yelling at a woman that she has 'nice tits' and then following her around ragging on her because she give you the response you wanted, and asking someone out for coffee/beer/whatever right?

One of these things is not like the other.

And I really don't think the receptionist is behaving badly. Unless I missed something and all office workers are now obligated to be besties with everyone who comes in. And that the receptionist was lacking offering the LW tea, cookies and chat after catching her staring at her shirt.

But then I really doubt she cares as much as the LW thinks she does.
54
"You may be too close to her to see that she's not really fine."



#33 EricaP You people have read one single letter about one misunderstanding from LW, whom you have never met and you do not even know and you on-line, self-appointed "shrinks" armed with your imaginary PhDs seek to psychoanalyze her and prescribe therapy. Cheezy and lame. And arrogant to boot. Says more about you than her.



She's doing just fine. She wrote in, Dan answered, and his response is all that matters. Nothing else below it does.



Good day.
55
Yes LW is a bit irrational in this letter, she would probably admit that herself if you talked to her down the road after she gets some distance from all of this, but if something like this has never happened to you, you have no prescribed way to act if you have no experience with it. At least LW asked for a neutral perspective by writing in. Yes, LW's friend is a bit irrational on here, but she is not embarrassing, she is defending her friend, she has a horse in the race. Number #15's first comment about how did you reach 40 is a dick thing to say, and frankly, that comment, along with others on here what is embarrassing. I don't agree with everything that LW's friend is saying on here, but I will go to the wall for one point that she continues to make and that is I too am sick to fucking death of so many fucking people on-line thinking that they are qualified to diagnose people and prescribe therapy based on a letter, or in this case, a part of a letter. It is a byproduct of the self-help industrial complex, of which Savage Love is a member. I like SL, but just being honest. The "you need professional help" is really a condescending put down meant to one up and shows that we are not comfortable with people being irrational. Guess what? Human beings, even the most level headed, can be irrational. You people can be irrational, you think you are so enlightened because you are open to BDSM, kink, all genders. please, this is 2014. You are not as open and enlightened as you think. You want humans to be emotionally tidy and neat and handle everything perfectly. That mentality that some of you have shows repression. Sorry, sad but true. You are repressed.
56
@54 & 55 What's wrong with therapy? I think just about everyone could use a good talk with a therapist. It doesn't mean the persons is bad or flawed. No one is saying that the LW is a bad person, only that she's having a very strong reaction to a minor incident.

And 54 what if she's not fine? Attitudes like bother me because they make it hard for people to admit they need help. It's okay to be 'not fine' with something and needing help to cope doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you.
57
@54 glad to hear the LW is doing well these days.

But on the question of recommending therapy...

If you complain about a mole that has been changing color or growing, people will advise that you have a dermatologist look at it.

If you complain that you "feel like shit" and that you can no longer make eye contact with acquaintances, then people are likely to advise talking to someone who has experience helping people with those symptoms. That doesn't mean years of therapy. Personally I've found a couple of sessions with a therapist helpful to get an unbiased perspective on a problem.
58
54, 55 - "You need professional help" is not condescending, not a put down, and yes, not a pancea. Yes, we all act irrationally sometimes, and that's not a crime. Therapy is also not a punishment. It's amazing. Self-help industrial complex??? You mean, utilizing modern science and tools to help ourselves? It's not repressive to recognize when someone is hurting and suggest a way to help.



Those who think recommending therapy is an insult have some unpacking to do themselves about their outdated ideas about therapy. We are long past the days of Freud and other weird-ass doctors pathologizing you. Of course it's normal to get upset sometimes. Normal people go to therapy - it's not just for looney toons. Good therapy is a tool that helps you examine your behavior, your thoughts, and your stress and figure out how you can be happier and achieve your goals. All of us have learned behaviors that no longer serve us. Often those get in our way. Someone who encounters a hostile receptionist (who knows what she thinks, and who cares?) and now can no longer make eye contact with people is definitely overreacting. But worse, she's unhappy and it's affecting her day to day life. And that's exactly what therapy is for. Even if it's just to say, "This shitty thing happened and it's affecting me" and to work out how to deal and how to get over it.



As for angry friend, easy tiger. No one is trying to hurt your friend. The world is not against you. They're providing advice, maybe not wrapped up in nice, soothing packaging, but advice nonetheless, which is the point of writing to an advice columnist. Dan's commenters aren't a knitting circle. Also, your friend is an adult and can speak for herself. Your hostility is out of proportion and you're making both yourself and your friend look silly.
59
Did she hit her head? PTSD? Why is she obsessing over some misconception with a stranger? What did she do when she made a thoughtless harmless mistake before the accident?

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