"You are not working for yourself but for the supermarket" is so very accurate and what is so very infuriating about these machines. They are inefficient, you spend valuable time waiting for the clerk to reset them and you're taking away a job from someone. Horrible horrible things.

I just don't like waiting in line.

I always deliberately screw up the self-service machines, when there is no human option. I figure if it takes me ten times as long to check out myself and also involve a human employee, they will go back to the speedier, more friendly full service option.

The only people I have ever met who dislike the machines are people who are unable to figure out how to use them as so require constant babysitting from a clerk anyway.



Anyway, if waiting in a line to be "served" so you feel better about yourself because someone had to wait on you, that is fine, but some people would rather just get on with their day.



Also: pushing the elevator button yourself? You are working for the building manager and taking away jobs from elevator attendants. Pump your own gas? You are just working for the gas companies, and taking jobs away from station attendants.



Furthermore, why stop at checkout? Why not have employees take our shopping lists and get everything for us? Otherwise we are just working for the grocery store. Think of all the employees they would need then. This is the way it was done a hundred years ago, why not go back?

As a former checker, I appreciate them because of (and blame them for) the decline in the skill set of today's grocery clerks. These days, checkers are slower, don't memorize produce codes, and nobody knows how to properly fill a grocery bag any more (I also blame this on plastic bags). In the self-check lane, I'm faster, I don't have to take extra time to look through the cheat book, and I don't have to ask anyone for paper bags (I just get them from the holder under the plastic bags), and I know my eggs and bread won't be at the bottom of the bag under a pile of canned food.

@ 4 FTW.

We can't weep about lost jobs without being hypocrites because we all have supported businesses whose existence has spelled fewer jobs, or even the elimination of entire industries. Go to a fast food restaurant? Shame - there are fewer waiters because you support that industry. Do you make online purchases? Shame - there go the local businesses who can sell you the same stuff. (And if they ship via UPS or FedEx, those are USPS jobs down the drain.) Use a smart phone? There are fewer landline technicians with a job because of it. Drive a car or ride the bus? Shame - if you still rode a horse, the blacksmiths would still be in business, as would the animal feed stores.

Things evolve and change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Charles, you are not making a good case that self service machines are for the worse, for the reasons @4 succinctly states. @ everybody else, unclench a bit, because our every decision is not based on whether it keeps people employed, and if you think they should, you have some house cleaning of your own to perform first.

Would you take away our self service gas and make us sit while some kid pumps our gas for us? Would you? Answer the question.

@8 go to Oregon.

@4 pumping your own gas is more efficient than waiting for someone. Have you truly never had a problem with a self checkout machine? "Please wait for attendant" after you put something in your bag. For no good reason. Perhaps you are perfect then.

Charles, if you don't like those checkout machines, have one of your servants go to the store.

So you're saying Ayn Rand was on the right track.

Thank you @4.

By this (third? forth?) article I will just say it, this is by far the dumbest thing you have railed against Charles, and I normally rail right there with you.

Maybe it's generational, but I absolutely hate checkout cashier interaction, and will spend all of my yearly grocery money at whatever store is close, not crappy, and has the machines.

Time isn't money, time is enjoyment of life, and I want to enjoy my short time on earth. Do I want a waiter at a restaurant? Sure. But can I get my own stupid and fast tasks done without bs chatter and slowdowns? Damn right I can. And I'll vote with my dollars.

@ 11, your example says more about the store and its employees than the machine. Sometimes I get that when I self checkout, but the checker in charge is always fast to resolve it. Maybe the store you've shopped at has less competent checkers staffing those machines.

Gah, here we go again. When you use a self-checkout station you are NOT taking anyone's job away. Don't believe me? Next time you're at your favorite supermarket, look around - I mean really LOOK. What do you see? Employees behind the deli counter, employees behind the cheese counter, employees behind the meat counter, behind the customer service counter, behind the bakery counter, behind the floral counter, employees stocking shelves, sorting bins of vegetables, cleaning up that spill on Aisle 4, pushing pallet carts full of goods, collecting shopping carts from the parking lot - employees, employees everywhere. And WHY do you see all that happening? Because all those employees are doing useful, necessary tasks that normally would be done during off-hours (i.e. the dreaded "graveyard shift"), or when it's super slow, because otherwise they'd mostly be running the full-serve checkout counters, which they don't have to now, because one or two employees can run the self-serve stations while most of the OTHER employees do work that would have to be squeezed in catch-as-catch-can or quite literally in the middle of the night.

And because of all this efficiency, in large part created by store employees not having to rush back-and-forth between checkout and other duties, they can get more done in less time, which means lower operational costs, which in turn translates into lower prices on the items I purchase. In addition, it means I don't have to stand in interminably long lines waiting for little old ladies to slowly unfold gnarled wads of mostly expired coupons, or listen to them argue every price that comes up on the register, or endure the inane chit-chat that checkers feel obliged to engage in with every single customer they serve. Instead, I can sweep through the self-check with my 15 Items or Less, bag and pay for them in perhaps 1/3 the time it would take at a full-service register.

Time IS money and my time is valuable enough to me to want to spend as little of it buying groceries as is necessary. If the self-check helps me do that - and it most certainly DOES, IME - then it's well worth it.

@11: Well, if your bar for perfection is figuring out how to use a machine designed specifically so that anyone can figure it out and use it without supervision, then yes, I guess I am perfect. Just about any issue that comes up can be fixed on your own if you understand how the machine works.



@15: It kind of seems like every writer has to create an "angry grandpa" post once in a while railing against a benign social change they do not understand or like. Paul Constant was doing it for a while, but Charles is right there with this one.

enough with the check out machines, gramps. Holy cow. What is Charles going to do when fast food employees are all replaced by robots?

@19 Really? So when it says "wait for attendant" after you've put something in your bag, after scanning it, how do you get around that? Please let us know wise one.

@ 21, go to a store where the checker is quick to resolve the issue. Preferably one where all the item weights are accurately entered into their system. Where are you shopping? I know the Walmarts have problems with this, but not Kroger-owned joints so much.

@21: 99% of the time that happens either an item has shifted off of the pressure pad and needs to be readjusted, or the item simply did not register the first time. Picking it up and placing it back on the pad usually resolves this.



Certain items are very light and will often not trigger the sensor unless they are placed right onto it. One the rare occasion something is actually wrong or the machine will not register the item, it takes about five seconds for the attendent to come over and override it. I will take a rare chance that happens over constantly waiting in long lines.



I know you are being snarky and sarcastic, but it really just makes you look foolish when you seem to be having so much trouble working the machine that everyone else can use.

@7



Something important has happened that you don't seem to be seeing.



For most of history you would be correct. Technology advances, some jobs are eliminated, but other jobs are created to take their place. There is some discomfort, true, but as a society the result was a push. About as many jobs were created as were lost. When there was a slight imbalance we just produced more stuff to keep hiring at roughly the same pace.



The problem is that process has broken down due to two factors. First, the advances that are eliminating jobs aren't creating new ones at even close to the same rate. For every ten factories that are automated(costing jobs in the tens of thousands) one tech company is created(that creates jobs in the tens). Second, new markets aren't opening fast enough to account for the technology disparity. Also, those markets aren't going to matter to us as Americans as they will be serviced by locals.



The New York Times has been doing a lot of good articles recently on un/underemployment. I pasted a relevant article to this discussion below.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/upshot…

@23 you are being condescending and sanctimonious. Try going to the Broadway QFC after work and getting an attendant to reset the machine in a timely fashion. We all don't live in Issaquah, oh perfect one.

@25: I live in Baltimore, so your "well you just live in a rich suburb" argument is just silly.

You asked how I handle it when the machine gives me problems and I answered you. My apologies if you were just trying to make a point and I ruined it, and I am sorry you can not figure out how to use the machine and it is so hard for you to get assistance with it.

Maybe bring a helper next time?

Now I know that I won't be in line behind raindrop, wasting everyone's time chitchatting about banalities with the cashier, because I will be doing the self-serve thing. That has made my morning brighter.

"But this is ideological nonsense."



Yes, Charles, it is. Why did you write it if you knew it was ideological nonsense?

@25:

You ASKED how to reset the display and @23 responded with a reasonable, common-sense, and effective solution - how exactly is that being "condescending and sanctimonious"?

And FWIW, I shop both QFC's on Broadway on a regular basis, and even when it's busy it generally never takes more than about 15 seconds at the most for the attendant to reset the display; I don't think that's "untimely".

I don't "choose" self-service checkout lanes, rather I'm forced into them when the store has only one or two staffed lanes open, with lines winding up the store aisles (Safeway).

When self-serve gasoline stations first emerged, they cut the price of gas when we pumped it ourselves, so there's some compensation for the work we do. Alas, not so at the grocery store or Home Depot; we pay the same prices either way.

@33 you must have trouble interpreting english if you couldn't detect the rather obvious and insulting implication of Theodore Gorath that I'm a fuckwad because I can't operate the machine properly. The machines are perfect! The people are the problem. Uh huh. You keep on believing that.

I prefer self-checkout so I don't have to make unnecessary, banal chit-chat with the cashier. Honestly, if there were a "no talking" or "Introverts only" checkout line, I'd be happy to use that instead of the machines.

I use it at PCC and I've never had an issue with these. Perhaps that's what one gets when they don't shop at an evil national corporation.

You can use self-checkout lanes to buy organic vegetables but pay non-organic prices.

@35:

Strange that, because the only person I see calling you a "fuckwad" - is you.

@ 24, I see that, but not in the rise of self checkout. That doesn't compare to the lost manufacturing jobs in the least.

@35 Sorry but it's you. Yes, there are occasional hiccups with the self-checkout but they are usually resolved quickly. You have to be strategic too. Is the self check-out attendant free at the moment? Better ring up the beer first so I can get the ID check out of the way now. Also, if you are having trouble with the weight verification triggering just wait to bag your groceries until after you complete the transaction. It is really not that hard.







I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the number of people who are so perturbed by a simple "Hello, how are you."







I just choose the option with the shortest line.

Ugh, and why do my posts keep ending up with this ridiculous spacing?
Test.

Test 2.

Test 3.

If self checkout machines make you grumpy Charles this may make you apoplectic.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/1…

@41 and @42 - the spacing issue - it's you. Sorry. The customer has to be "strategic"? So people need to plan their checkout ahead of time?

@39 again, lack of reading comprehension.

@4 - Well, you've never met me. I know how to use them, but I still hate them. Fucking robots.

@5 - Are you kidding? No. In a 'capitalism' prices never go down. Just look at the privatized liquor sales in Wa., all the liquor prices stabilized at a higher level.

@14 - Ah ha! The perfect capitalist shopping experience! Earbuds in, totally isolated from other people, interfacing only with machines. Ideal!

@15 - Wrong, the dumbest thing was railing against kitchens, and stating that everyone should eat out all the time. :>P

@24 - Excellent point. Thank you.

@27 - "it is [the checker's] job to be pleasant."
Which is something rather insidious... mandating mood. Being paid to be artificially happy. What an ersatz new world we are forced to live in. Welcome, here's your soma.

Finally: As to the point that "you are...working for...the supermarket, and you are not getting paid for this work."
Well, that depends. You CAN get free groceries using the self-checkout 'bots, that is akin to getting paid for your time. ;>o)

@42 - possibly because you're posting from a smartphone.

It's too bad you guys at the Stranger cleaned out that paper file cabinet a few weeks back. The file on self-checkout machines definitely would've won the WTF poll in a few years.

@44:

@35 you wrote:

"@33 you must have trouble interpreting english (sic) if you couldn't detect the rather obvious and insulting implication of Theodore Gorath that I'm a fuckwad because I can't operate the machine properly."

Please indicate ANY other comment in which the term "Fuckwad" is used in reference to anything you've written. We'll wait.

Those News Paper vending machines need to go too. What of the hearty "read all about it!" from your local newsboy? Your daily chat with the man at the newstand?

Basically you can't buy anything from a machine. Not gas, not newspapers, not groceries. No more ATMs.

Once that's done we can bring back elevator operators and replace traffic lights with policemen in white gloves.

Personally I hate self-checkout machines too but only because of the bugs. Bugs are solvable. I'm sure in a few years it will be fine.

@ 45, no, @ 24 doesn't have an excellent point. See @ 40.

BTW, I really wish the anti-self checkout people would address comments like @ 50. If this is the point on which you're taking a stand against automation and the job loss that goes with it, you're many decades too late.

the dumbest thing was railing against kitchens, and stating that everyone should eat out all the time.

Seems like Mudede has a problem with DIY in general.

@49 do you understand term IMPLICATION? I'll wait while you look it up.

@45,

Ah ha! The perfect capitalist shopping experience! Earbuds in, totally isolated from other people, interfacing only with machines. Ideal!

I have to disagree with this. Do you work in a corporate job? Because if you did, there's no way you could say that with a straight face.

The entire point of worker/customer interaction from the company's perspective is to get the customer to fork over more money than the customer would have done on their lonesome.

Credit card offers and super sizing are the most common methods of squeezing the customer, but, in more high-stakes sales, guilt tripping, refusing to take "no" for an answer, and good, old-fashioned bullying are the name of the game. My company is always looking for more opportunities to harass our customers for more of their money in ways that supposedly don't make them realize they're being harassed.

Most grocery stores don't seem to bother with the credit card offers that are de rigueur at big box and department stores, and it's mostly pharmacies that try to cram candy down your gullet. I don't know the historical reason for the relative lack of harassment at grocery stores, but I doubt it's because grocery companies are humanitarians. And you can be sure, if grocery stores decided that they can get more money with store cards and upselling than they're spending on labor, *all* of the self-checkouts would disappear overnight.

The perfect capitalist shopping experience ends with you leaving with an empty wallet.

@ 54, there was no implication. You are just looking for an excuse for trouble, and nobody is buying it.

@54:

Maybe you're having trouble discerning the difference between "imply" and "infer". I don't see anything in the comment in question where they implied you're a "fuckwad", but I most definitely see in your response that you apparently inferred they called you a "fuckwad", even though they clearly didn't.

Again, the issue at-hand is who called whom a "fuckwad"; as I previously stated the record is pretty unambiguous on that point.

my biggest problem is they never have gum and candy bars and shit like that at the self checkout stations. how am i sposed to get my juicy fruit on?

Funny enough, I popped into my local Safeway last night to pick up a few things and a couple of the machines were down so I went over to a checker with a really short line (I am no purist, I just like what works best), but the checker then got into a shouting match with a customer over the price of a bar of baker's chocolate, so the longer self checkout line moved a lot faster.

EBT.

If you don't know, then you better ask somebody.

@4, I find the self checkouts take much longer because people have trouble using them and they break/malfunction if you're not some sharpshooter with where exactly you put your item on the "belt down."

Moreover, yes, I do decry the loss of service station jobs. And smaller-scale delivery jobs (milk man, pharmacy, grocery). I do my little part by paying my grocery store to do my shopping for me - no joke - so, yeah, I do hand them (electronically) my list and someone goes and shops for me. They offer pickup service, and if I really want to save time, that's the ticket (as would a milk man, pharmacy delivery service, and small-time grocery delivery).

Oh, and one the occasion that I'm making just a small trip and the pickup fee is more than I'm willing to pay for said items, I don't unload my own cart/basket. My grocery store has the cashiers unload the carts/baskets for the customers. I've found that this is also extremely fast, compared to other stores.

You should *really* try some good customer service sometime, it makes for a pretty pleasant experience.

Two teenage girls I picked up hitch hiking out here said they like to use the machines to rob the store somehow LOL.