My daughter is six. We live in Alabama. I ended up chaperoning a field trip with her first-grade class, for which one of the other chaperones was the mom of my daughter's best friend.
And on the way there, my daughter very enthusiastically told her friend's mom "They're going to change the law so boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls and when they do I'm going to marry [friend] because we love each other SO much!" The look on the mom's face was somewhere between stunned and horrified, and she still hasn't called me back about setting up a playdate.
The thing is, though, my daughter also came home recently and announced "When I grow up I want to marry a girl instead of a boy because boys say 'fart' and 'butt' a lot." With reasoning like that, I'd expect 95% of girls to grow up lesbians :-P
I think it's just a stage that kids with LGBTQ-tolerant parents will have to go through - the point at which they can't differentiate "friendship" and "love" with "romantic love." It coincides with gender identity solidifying (girls like pink, boys like blue, girls play with girls and boys play with boys) and hey, if you can marry anyone you want and all your friends are the same gender, it makes sense that you'll marry one of them! It's not until puberty hits, later on, that they suddenly figure out there's more to romantic attraction than friendship.
@1, yes I remember playing lovers( as in running up to each other and cuddling), with girlfriends at 5. Falling in love with girls at school. It's bloody normal behaviour at that age. At Catholic girls schools you only got other girls to fall in love with.
What a shit teacher.
LW, go slam dunk that school post haste, and yes, change schools if possible.
That poor little boy. Tell him it's fine to want to show his love for his friend.
And, his sexuality, as he gets older- really is his business. Just love him.
Have you ever wondered why teachers everywhere didn't put a stop to bullying in schools by themselves, years ago? Or sexual harassment, or homophobia? Just who's in charge anyway?
The answer is that bullying makes the teacher's job easier. Bullies make the kids who don't fit the mold sit down and shut up, and that's a godsend to every teacher.
So yeah, good luck with fixing your redneck school. Go sit the principal down and give them a good talking to on how they suck at their job. They love that. Hey, while you're at it, why not fix your whole redneck town?
I was a wet boy that preferred to play with the girls, had a girlfriend, actually several, from ages five to ten. I remember being really in love with one of them, I was heartbroken when her family moved away.
That was the time that most boys thought that girls were boring.
Around the time I realised I was sexually interested in men, around eleven/twelve, was when most boys were just beginning to get interested in girls.
My point is, yes your kid could be gay but there is no certainty of that based on his love of a best friend at this age. I don't think a seven year old is that likely to want to jump his bff's bones.
Spend your energy on creating the most positive and accepting environment that you can and making someone who is prepared for the 21st Century.
@2 You are not a very smart reader. Why would someone from Alabama post something like this on the Stranger? You have been set up by a local ( I hope this person is laughing) at your gullibility in responding in your usual angry manner. How's your blood pressure? You are not the smartest poster on this site, but you are the angriest. Try some aromatherapy, clove, black pepper and wild orange help me with my nicotene addiction, I'm not sure if they would help you with your stupidity issues..... Well anyway, give them a try.
@8 I post here because we don't have anything like Dan Savage in my neck of the Bible Belt. Believe it or not, sex advice is one of those nicely universal things - and people outside Seattle do, on occasion, choose to have sex.
Oh, also worth pointing out, @2 wasn't responding to me, since I wasn't the letter-writer. And the letter-writer didn't mention anything about Alabama. But good on you for your "very smart reader" skills.
Oh, I was that little boy. WAAAAAY way back (before all these little twenty- and thirty-somethings who have all their Swingers' podcasts invented sex, y'know). It was mortifying, sure, but so was being a skinny little black kid in the place that would have run Natalie Maines out of town on a rail had she been stupid enough to give them the opportunity.
DAD's kid definitely got the message. Hopefully he's more resilient than I was.
Teachers bully kids too- that is just a sad fact. I had my kid accused of lying at 6 because he said he was Jewish. I never told my kid we are [blank] because we aren't anything. But he has family who is Jewish and we celebrated Hanukkah with them. The teacher said "If you are Jewish you celebrate Hanukkah" so he thought- "I must be Jewish!" and when she asked, he raised his hand. She was trying to be culturally aware by teaching about different cultures and recognizing the kids in her class from that culture but it was an epic fail with him. She stopped me in the hall and told me my son was a liar, and when she went into the story I through her for a loop. I said we have family who is Jewish, and then she wanted to know if we had a Menorah, and I said yes- two, we keep them by the nativity figures. Totally through her. I didn't report her, but I hope it makes her think twice now.
Two stories from my daughters' childhoods come to mind:
1) When my older daughter was 2 years, 9 months, she asked her best (female) friend to marry her. Her friend didn't give her a yes or no answer, but said, "well, girls usually marry boys." My daughter was devastated and confused. She asked me why it was that girls usually married boys. I said that it just worked out that by the time people were grownups and they wanted to be a family with someone, most men wanted to be a family with women and vice versa, but that there were plenty of women who wanted to be a family with women and men who wanted to be a family with men. My daughter listened, nodded, and asked another (female) friend to marry her. This friend--a brand-new acquaintance--accepted readily. A few days later, the original askee said that after thinking about it, she wanted to marry my daughter. Whereupon I became mother-in-law to two little preschoolers and my daughter became a bigamist.
#2 By the time my younger daughter was 5, I had turned both girls into gay rights activists. We have lots of LGBT friends, many of whom are couples, some who are parents, and at the time, I was really hitting the unfairness of the laws that wouldn't let them marry each other. So my 5-year-old daughter, very much a mommy's girl, said one day: "Mommy, when I grow up and they change the laws so girls can marry girls, I'm going to marry you."
I said, "Oh honey, you can't marry me when you grow up; I'm your mommy."
She said, "But when they change the laws."
I said, "Well, I'm already married; I'm married to Daddy."
She said, nonchalantly, "You can get a divorce." Problem apparently solved!
By the way, I don't think either girl is a lesbian, though who knows, and no mother-daughter incest has occurred--although I am now divorced.
But seriously, it seems clear that the teacher knew what was in the note and made the child read it deliberately to in order to mock and shame him, and somehow I doubt if that note had been addressed to a female classmate the teacher would have done the same thing.
I don't know where this took place, but the dad describes it as a redneckopolis, so the attitude of the teacher might be shared by school administrators. Which doesn't mean that the father shouldn't arrange for a meeting with the principal. This is unacceptable and discriminatory, whether the little boy is gay or straight, as long as the teacher's intention was to shame the child for expressing love for another boy. If the teacher claims that s/he would have done the same thing had the note been addressed to a girl, I would challenge him/her.
This teacher needs to be held accountable and disciplined for those actions, and watched to make sure that there's no anti-gay bias being expressed. And if the administration doesn't take the parent's side, then I would take it up to the district level. Even if your son turns out to be straight, this is a fight that needs to be fought.
As for Dan's advice, it's mostly on-target, but it's kind of a hard thing to change schools sometimes. I think it's possible to tell the kid to kind of cool it on the gay stuff around his classmates while also letting him know you love him no matter what. It's a matter of strategy and social survival while you sort of lay the groundwork for acceptance as best you can with his teachers and other parents in that community. In any case, it's not easy, and I really sympathize with both the kid and his father. I hope the mother is just as accepting.
I would have asked what dad would have told his son about social intimacy for his son if the note had been to a girl in the class? I believe the same advice would apply.
i don't know. i remember quite clearly being in kindergarten and being jealous that the little boys got to kiss heather but i couldn't. i also remember in first grade quite clearly wanting to be "best friends" with a girl named tabitha (i thought her name was monica, but that's irrelevant). complete with writing a love letter. i think it's more likely that little kids actually DO know which gender they're attracted to - but as they grow up they're socialized to not feel that way, until they hit the point where they can't pretend otherwise anymore. so while first grade "attraction" may be closer to wanting to be bestest bestest friends as opposed to actually being romantic, i wouldn't assume that the attraction is something other than attraction just because the kid is 7.
and @8 - wow. talk about needing to get some control of your anger and hatred issues.
Some teachers are just idiots. I am 68 years,old. When I was 10 we moved and my parents sent me to my new school to find my own way. I was small. Very small. I was also ridiculously smart. I got my paper which told me what fifth grade class to go to. I walked in and Ms Mahoney, I'll never forget her name, looked at me and in a loud voice said "But lttle boy, the second grade is downstairs". She laughed as did the class. On my way home, a few kids threw rocks at me. When I got home and told my mother what happened, she looked at me and angrily said "you must have done something to anger your teacher". The following year, I had a teacher who gave monthly tests and seated the children based on how they did. Therefore the smartest kid was in row one seat one. I was always the best so I was always in the first row and also was the target of frequent beatings. I taught for thirteen years and learned from the lessons I was taught. Some people are just not mentally prepared to be teachers and some way needs to be weeded out before they can do damage to kids. The damage doesn't go away no matter how long you live.
@21 if teachers were paid better salaries we could be pickier about who gets to teach. I have so much respect for good teachers. It's something I could never do. As it is I have two good friends who are great teachers but they are leaving the profession in pursuit of other careers that pay better and offer more respect. It's s real shame.
' how can I ask him to hold off acting on his feelings until he's mature enough to understand them better? '
me thinks dad is a wee bit homophobic and is trying to cover it in concern for how bad it will be for the kid. you don't blame the kid for feelings, you don't freak out that he's too young to know his own mind, you teach him [ or her, or se or ze, etc] what's appropriate for that level of school and age.
and you say 'i love you regardless' every day, regardless.
I would call the writer out for use of the word "preference." Sexual orientation is not a "preference" which implies choice. One does not choose sexual orientation unless one is bisexual. For most, sexual orientation is innate.
@24 Bisexuals didn't choose to be bisexual any more than anyone else. It's all nature and nurture and comfort with yourself and what boundaries you'll push that determines who you fuck and how.
@8 Yeah, I read Dan Savage's column and have literally never been further west than New Mexico. I became aware of him living in Texas, he was popular in Chicago (even came to my school to speak,) and I now read him in Virginia. He's a nationally known personality. People write to him from literally everywhere. _He even answered one of my calls several years ago and gave me advice._
I hope people realize that a lot of teachers out there work hard to check and combat bullying at their schools everyday. This is a tall order, but an essential part of our already overworked underpaid job (avg. 65-70 hrs/wk) I strive to promote acceptance and to use moments of bullying, racism, prejudice, and stereotyping to first stop it immediately, then create a teachable moment for the students who were victimizing others or acting intolerant.
A lot of us are fighting the good fight and will continue to do so, because we love all of our students.
And on the way there, my daughter very enthusiastically told her friend's mom "They're going to change the law so boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls and when they do I'm going to marry [friend] because we love each other SO much!" The look on the mom's face was somewhere between stunned and horrified, and she still hasn't called me back about setting up a playdate.
The thing is, though, my daughter also came home recently and announced "When I grow up I want to marry a girl instead of a boy because boys say 'fart' and 'butt' a lot." With reasoning like that, I'd expect 95% of girls to grow up lesbians :-P
I think it's just a stage that kids with LGBTQ-tolerant parents will have to go through - the point at which they can't differentiate "friendship" and "love" with "romantic love." It coincides with gender identity solidifying (girls like pink, boys like blue, girls play with girls and boys play with boys) and hey, if you can marry anyone you want and all your friends are the same gender, it makes sense that you'll marry one of them! It's not until puberty hits, later on, that they suddenly figure out there's more to romantic attraction than friendship.
What a shit teacher.
LW, go slam dunk that school post haste, and yes, change schools if possible.
That poor little boy. Tell him it's fine to want to show his love for his friend.
And, his sexuality, as he gets older- really is his business. Just love him.
The answer is that bullying makes the teacher's job easier. Bullies make the kids who don't fit the mold sit down and shut up, and that's a godsend to every teacher.
So yeah, good luck with fixing your redneck school. Go sit the principal down and give them a good talking to on how they suck at their job. They love that. Hey, while you're at it, why not fix your whole redneck town?
I was a wet boy that preferred to play with the girls, had a girlfriend, actually several, from ages five to ten. I remember being really in love with one of them, I was heartbroken when her family moved away.
That was the time that most boys thought that girls were boring.
Around the time I realised I was sexually interested in men, around eleven/twelve, was when most boys were just beginning to get interested in girls.
My point is, yes your kid could be gay but there is no certainty of that based on his love of a best friend at this age. I don't think a seven year old is that likely to want to jump his bff's bones.
Spend your energy on creating the most positive and accepting environment that you can and making someone who is prepared for the 21st Century.
Wtf?
Oh, also worth pointing out, @2 wasn't responding to me, since I wasn't the letter-writer. And the letter-writer didn't mention anything about Alabama. But good on you for your "very smart reader" skills.
DAD's kid definitely got the message. Hopefully he's more resilient than I was.
1) When my older daughter was 2 years, 9 months, she asked her best (female) friend to marry her. Her friend didn't give her a yes or no answer, but said, "well, girls usually marry boys." My daughter was devastated and confused. She asked me why it was that girls usually married boys. I said that it just worked out that by the time people were grownups and they wanted to be a family with someone, most men wanted to be a family with women and vice versa, but that there were plenty of women who wanted to be a family with women and men who wanted to be a family with men. My daughter listened, nodded, and asked another (female) friend to marry her. This friend--a brand-new acquaintance--accepted readily. A few days later, the original askee said that after thinking about it, she wanted to marry my daughter. Whereupon I became mother-in-law to two little preschoolers and my daughter became a bigamist.
#2 By the time my younger daughter was 5, I had turned both girls into gay rights activists. We have lots of LGBT friends, many of whom are couples, some who are parents, and at the time, I was really hitting the unfairness of the laws that wouldn't let them marry each other. So my 5-year-old daughter, very much a mommy's girl, said one day: "Mommy, when I grow up and they change the laws so girls can marry girls, I'm going to marry you."
I said, "Oh honey, you can't marry me when you grow up; I'm your mommy."
She said, "But when they change the laws."
I said, "Well, I'm already married; I'm married to Daddy."
She said, nonchalantly, "You can get a divorce." Problem apparently solved!
But seriously, it seems clear that the teacher knew what was in the note and made the child read it deliberately to in order to mock and shame him, and somehow I doubt if that note had been addressed to a female classmate the teacher would have done the same thing.
I don't know where this took place, but the dad describes it as a redneckopolis, so the attitude of the teacher might be shared by school administrators. Which doesn't mean that the father shouldn't arrange for a meeting with the principal. This is unacceptable and discriminatory, whether the little boy is gay or straight, as long as the teacher's intention was to shame the child for expressing love for another boy. If the teacher claims that s/he would have done the same thing had the note been addressed to a girl, I would challenge him/her.
This teacher needs to be held accountable and disciplined for those actions, and watched to make sure that there's no anti-gay bias being expressed. And if the administration doesn't take the parent's side, then I would take it up to the district level. Even if your son turns out to be straight, this is a fight that needs to be fought.
As for Dan's advice, it's mostly on-target, but it's kind of a hard thing to change schools sometimes. I think it's possible to tell the kid to kind of cool it on the gay stuff around his classmates while also letting him know you love him no matter what. It's a matter of strategy and social survival while you sort of lay the groundwork for acceptance as best you can with his teachers and other parents in that community. In any case, it's not easy, and I really sympathize with both the kid and his father. I hope the mother is just as accepting.
@16 I prefer polyamorist not bigamist :D
and @8 - wow. talk about needing to get some control of your anger and hatred issues.
preference?
' how can I ask him to hold off acting on his feelings until he's mature enough to understand them better? '
me thinks dad is a wee bit homophobic and is trying to cover it in concern for how bad it will be for the kid. you don't blame the kid for feelings, you don't freak out that he's too young to know his own mind, you teach him [ or her, or se or ze, etc] what's appropriate for that level of school and age.
and you say 'i love you regardless' every day, regardless.
A lot of us are fighting the good fight and will continue to do so, because we love all of our students.