"I think astrology is annoying bullshit" x 10! Thank you Dan!!
Astrology is trash.

"He also had younger twin sisters which he says explains the reason he needs to women at once."
Something about this dude reeks. I sense he's the kind of shitty guy who whines about using condoms because they make him go limp or the one who quits his job because his boss doesn't recognize all of his potential and then plays Call of Duty for seven months straight. The clincher was that all her friends think she should dump him--that's an alarm right there. Just because he's the first doesn't mean he's the best.
Yeah, it's probably not fair, but as soon as someone starts explaining away their significant others' personal flaws, or their own, with reference to astrological signs, I assume they're simply too stupid to help.
"He is my first and only, I love him dearly, and I want to spend the rest of my life with him."

The first has everything to do with the last.
@2 No, I can relate - we had a dog and a cat when I was growing up so now I can only get off in three-species bestial orgies.
The mere thought of him looking at another woman will make the LW physically sick? Pardon an old gold-star faggot's ignorance but is this a thing that really happens with women? I can maybe understand if it turns out to be limited to those jealous/insecure/dumb-as-dirt females brought up on soap operas, Real Housewives and Maury Povich, but that's as far as my mind can go.
@7 I get the feeling the LW is young, hence the immaturity. I think they should break up and stay broken up. She needs to do some growing before getting into another relationship.
@7 - Eh, I think it can be part of the human condition, especially if you're of the opinion that you will find that One And Only Twu Wuv and all the emotional baggage that goes with it.

That said, I did date a girl who saw my every interaction with other women to be a sign that I didn't love her. When she heard that a female friend of mine was coming out to Seattle to visit me (and a whole bunch of other friends out here), she flipped: "Well if you like her so much, why don't you MARRY her?!?!" Never mind that I wasn't attracted to her and she was more of a big sister in my life. Mind you, she had a lot of issues and that ultimately made me get out once I realized how abusive the relationship was.
Oh good grief. Astrology? Twin sisters? Three-ways? Physically sick, for real? First and one and only, forevs?

Definitely not mature enough for an adventurous sex life or relationships. End it now.
@7 I'd guess it's a little hyperbolic: nauseous as hell I've heard from men and women, but I've never heard of anyone actually vomiting from jealousy, I don't think.

Men say it a lot to women in fiction, usually in a slut-shaming way. "You slept with HIM? You make me sick!"
Everyone's being quite cruel to the LW. Breaking up over that one thing which ruins seemingly perfect compatibility is hell. At the time it doesn't matter that you'll look back and realise what a disaster you dodged. Better to have loved and lost than end up hating each other, LW.
Cmon. Astrology is not trash.
Lucky I'm here LW, I'll help you.
Fire sign and an Air sign; risky.
And A Gemini, yes- they like lots of people in their lives. Skim the surface of intimacy, as I read it.
Don't know any Leos in close. And really jealousy is something you can work on. I'm a Scorpio, crazed fuckers- but I've been able to burn off jealousy over the years.
Of course, you can't let your belief in astrology decide on your partners.
Though, I'd never get with a Taurus man again. Way too loud and bull like.
LW; The reference to his twin sisters, a tad worrying. I'd check what he's actually on about there.
Maybe, when you are self pleasuring-
Get into a threesome fantasy. Allow yourself to get into the woman in this threesome, if you have some contact with your homosexual impulses.
I have some very hot three way fantasies, and enjoy the play with the woman as much as I do with the male. And I've never been with a woman in real life.
Or, if you can't go there, then make a deal with your guy. He has his threesomes with two women. You get to have threesomes with two men.
See how he likes them apples.
In some situations you have some good insights, but astrology is childish bullshit. Please put away the tinfoil hat and try to have an adult conversation.
Poor leo, as a fixed sign it's going to be tough to change. You have three choices really. 1. break up now and move on. 2. stay on a break and work on the jealousy to where you can be comfortable with him fooling around without you (three way probably won't be fun for you ever), then get back together when you're there. 3. Get back together now and work on the jealousy while you are dating. Think of it this way, you're going to have to work on the jealousy thing regardless, and if he is right for you then you will get back together. Good luck and ignore the astrology haters. If it helps you to understand yourself better then it is a good and useful tool. Hold yourself accountable and remember to empathize! Empathy is the greatest tool for self improvement and maturity. I'd suggest meditating on your goal to get rid of your jealousy.
Gee thanks Dr Van. Guessing you are a Taurian?
What the fuckity fuck does anything sexual have to do with his twin sisters? I wish she had explained THAT better. Vague incest fantasies are sorta OK I long as they're not about REAL PEOPLE. I mean, is this a thing?

BTW, Gemini introvert here...
Which sign is least likely to believe in astrology?
She's young -- if my first boyfriend, with whom I had sex -- had posited a threesome when we were 19, I, too, would have freaked out.

It's an age and experience appropriate freak out.

Check me out in another decade and it might be a different story, or not.
@7, @9: I had an ex who was this jealous as well. And male. So it's not a sex-specific neurosis, though women may be more likely to admit it (or men may be more likely to react with violence rather than insecurity).

She definitely sounds very young and I totally know what it's like to fall for your first love, and think you can never love anyone else again. But another thing I've learned is that when ALL your friends are saying break up, THEY'RE RIGHT. Break up, be sad, eat a lot of ice cream, have a couple of one-night stands (with your newly developed sexual skills), and some day when she's older she'll meet a nice, sexy guy who doesn't provoke her jealousy by waving his "need" for more than one woman in her face. And then maybe, once she's secure in this relationship, she'll be interested in a threesome. Or maybe not. Her choice.

BTW, threesomes are great but they are not a "need". Boyfriend needs to grow up too.
Haha, my ridiculously possessive ex was also a Leo. Make of that what you will. We Virgos don't believe in astrology. ;)
There are plenty of times when one has to make snap decisions with no substantive evidence on which to base them; at such times, astrology seems a relatively innocuous basis. It's basically Holmes-Sun-Earth for me, though my extremely limited experience suggests that believers would be well advised to guard against a tendency to "make" it come true.

My crystal ball shows me a long queue of Gemini men in pursuit of Ms Lava in future.
Ah, the old "suggest a three-way to induce her to break up with you." Well played, Sir. She sounds totally annoying and harder to scape off than barnacles. And extra credit for throwing in the sweet, sweet twin sister incest scenario. That would have any normal woman running for the hills.
I think (hope, actually) that the LW was using the "had" in "had twin sisters" in the biblical sense. Meaning her BF had a threeway years ago with girls who were twins. But not his sisters. If that's not what the LW meant, and the BF actually demands threeways because he has younger twin sisters, that's the creepiest thing I've ever heard.

Either way, DTMFA. And spend some time growing up and learning about yourself. The first thing that you should learn is that what position the sun was in at the time of your birth has nothing to do with your level of naivete (you) or assholery (BF).
@20 A good thing that LavaGirl wouldn't want to get together with a Taurus. Being born under an earth sign, we are grounded enough to think astrology is total BS.
I mean, yeah, astrology is stupid. But not any more stupid than any of the judeo-Christian religions, for instance. Somehow, we don't see the same level of invective and dismissiveness directed at, oh, say Martin Luther king, jr. I wonder if it's because astrology is a primarily female superstition?
Correction: MLK was a terrible example. I just meant to identify a religious leader who I respect and admire despite their participation in an irrational superstition. Obviously, King was the target of all sorts of abuse before his assassination. But not because of his imaginary friend in the sky
Both astrology and nebulous references to his family are in fact terrible explanations for the ex's interest in threesomes. Why not "This is something I like and want"? Doesn't he have the conviction to stand up for his desires? Don't date him. Work on your jealousy issues. And lay off the star charts.
Dude has demons. Run.
Sex is supposed to feel really good. For the woman too, I mean. Cult leaders will tell you otherwise.
@29: "I mean, yeah, astrology is stupid. But not any more stupid than any of the judeo-Christian religions, for instance. Somehow, we don't see the same level of invective and dismissiveness directed at, oh, say Martin Luther king, jr. I wonder if it's because astrology is a primarily female superstition?"

You forgot to tip your fedora when you were done with your unnecessary screed.

@31: "Both astrology and nebulous references to his family are in fact terrible explanations for the ex's interest in threesomes."

She's far too young to know better.
A Gemini with twin sisters? Let me guess, he lives in Minneapolis and the GF lives in Saint Paul.
I was insanely jealous, briefly, due to being on a birth control Pill combo that wasn't right for me. Change of Pill, and everything was back to normal. But the twin thing is messed up and the the dude/girlfriend are not compatible.
Yikes. Twincest?
Yeah, I was only thirteen when I fell in love with my first boyfriend; by the time I was fifteen I was sure I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. We've been happily married for 35 years now. It can happen. That said, I don't think these two should stay together--they want different things. A lot of the comments have recommended ways for the LW to get used to the three-way idea. But why should she have to do that? I've never done three-ways, and she doesn't have to either if she doesn't want to. On the other hand, if her guy really wants that, why should he have to give that up? (Let alone give up platonic female friends, which is just silly.) The LW is lucky. She's finding out the deal breakers in her relationship now. So much better than finding it out ten years and two kids down the road. It feels wrenching to break up with someone you're so in love with, but it will only be harder later. And doing a little growing up on your own will only strengthen you and make future relationships better.
If you're a Gemini, like me, you can expect the unexpected.

Strangest@28; never said I'd never be attracted to a Taurus again. Being the opposite sign to Scorpio, there is that attraction to opposites.
And usually, they can keep plants alive. A skill I just can't muster.
Astrology is for suckers. Nephrology is where it's at.
"He also had younger twin sisters which he says explains the reason he needs to women at once."

That "explains" something, but not his desire for a threesome. Ick.
This letter gives me a great strategy to use the next time I'm with some hot, sexy girls that's a little too crazy to get serious about. Thanks for the idea!
Perfect answer, Dan.

Also, @5 has it exactly right.
Isn't interesting that we have purged from polite liberal society judgements based on race, ethnicity, and class-- but yet it is still perfectly acceptable to judge human beings on the completely arbitrary position of celestial objects at the random time of that persons birth.

How absurdly ironic is that.
Man, where are all the commentors who are saying ", he gets to want what he wants"?
@34 I guess I didn't express myself well. I felt the same contempt for the LW regarding her mention of astrology that Dan and several commenters expressed. And then I started to wonder why it made me inclined to write her off as a person worth listening to entirely, when I don't have that same immediate reaction to people with beliefs that I find just as ridiculous. And it occurred to me that the (ridiculous) beliefs that don't get the same knee-jerk contempt from me have been societal authorities, uniformly patriarchal authorities. Just asking the question.
My guess is, you astrology doubters, may have been with the mob who thought the earth was flat.
Apologies to Geminis.
I meant their intimacy behaviour doesn't plunge the depths, like down to the bottom corner, left hand side, of the psyche, as a Scorpio would.
@45: Yes, racism is totally the same as horoscopism.
I'm glad you've uncovered the true bigotry underlying polite society.
@ 48/49, if I were inclined to believe in astrology's power to predict compatability, I'd tell you to get with a gemini ASAP. I know more longterm happy gemini-scorpio couples than any other combo, by far, including three such couples in my own family.

But I don't, so keep on believing Linda whatherface's Love Signs.
@46 I'm pretty sure #38 said that he shouldn't have to give up three ways if he doesn't want to. I don't think anyone cares about three way as much as they're put off by the idea that reason he wants one is because he fucked his twin sisters.

The general consensus seems to be they're young, they're sexually incompatible, and they probably should spend some time growing up before getting into a forever and ever amen relationship.
No way Matt. I'd never get with a Gemini.
Poor dear Linda. She has been dead for how long? Though, I did read her.
No. My star person is In Australia- where such things as belief in astrology, is just, you know, allowed.
Okay, so I'm confused. Geminis are afraid of intimacy, but we like a lot of people around? Dafuq? Another twin introvert here, and the few friends that I do have I've known for over twenty years. I'm confident enough to say that I probably know them just as well as they know themselves, and often offer insight to help them solve their little 'dark corner' issues. How is that not intimate, again?

And no, nobody is telling this guy that he can't have his threesomes, just as nobody is telling the girl that she has to do something that turns her stomach. They aren't compatible. Move on already.
Another deeply intimate, introverted Gemini here. How to explain us...? So many exceptions to the generalizations...
It is rather odd, isn't it? It's almost like astrology is fun instead of fact and all...
Ok you Gemini girls.
Let's go a couple rounds. I'm up for it.
@48: It's the other way around - astrology is unscientific nonsense.
So. It's only science we follow now, is it Chase?
The great God of science.
Nothing else pass your spirit than science?
No intuition? No falling in love? No sixth sense, ever?
@26 - that was my first guess too, but some things are too hard to fake...and @4 is right: this is varsity level. I wonder if the guy is really just trying to get rid of her and seeing - out of a kind of cruel curiosity - just how much crap she'll take (twin sisters line).

@37 - I'm not looking, but I have no doubt such a tag exists on Literotica.
@34: Pointing out the existence of sexism != sexism.

@46: Perhaps that doesn’t need to be said because Dan said it? I don't see anyone saying that he should give up the idea of threesomes to be with LW. Just that his justifications for what he wants are a bit dodgy.
@46: Your own quote tears into the point you attempted to make.

"If this encourages other people to also be up front about their own no-go's in relationships - and lets their partners respond appropriately early on - that seems excellent."

She's letting him know about her no-gos, he's ignoring them and persisting.
@ 54, it's in your stars... Leave that Pisces (or is it Cancer?) zero and get with a Gemini hero.
@58 Why on earth would I want to get into a debate with you? Your beliefs are so deeply entrenched that there's no getting through to you. I already tried explaining the difference between genetic sex characteristics and self-perception of gender and you just dug your little harpy nails in and absolutely refused to be budged on your ignorance.

Astrology is a belief system, okay, fine. And yet here are people stepping forward to say, "Hm, I'm *X sign*, and yet I don't conform to any of the characteristics that astrology claims for me". Oh, but there are always exceptions to the rules, aren't there? And you know why? Because we're all exceptions, we're all unique. There are no rules, because astrology is BUNK.

If you're going to accuse people of following the great god Science, then I will be one of the first to stand up and get baptised. I'll go out and get myself a ceremonial lab coat, and get the symbol of the atom traced on my forehead in good ol' H2O and take my place in front of the holy bunsen burner. I'll open the gifts my relatives sent me - oh lookit, a whole new set of erlenmeyer flasks, how fun! And then I will sit down and listen to an inspiring lecture and all the newly baptised will get cracking on solving those mysteries of the universe with facts and evidence. Not with some woo-woo bullshit 'rules of the stars'.
@65: "If you're going to accuse people of following the great god Science, then I will be one of the first to stand up and get baptised."

How dare you follow controlled observations and change your mind when previous assumptions are proven incorrect.
@66 - It's kind of odd, I know. But what is proof anyway? Or logic, for that matter? Surely it can't be any more reliable than intuition and the stars telling you how to live your life... I mean, those big old balls of gas millions of light-years away have such a vested interest in our futures, dontcha know.
Science is the only "belief" system that DELIVERS on its promises.
@67, all very correct, but I'd like to add that "intuition" shouldn't be mixed in with astrology. I'm a very intuitive person, and in fact do most of my scientific research (biology) very intuitively. Intuition is when you're non-verbal brain (which is actually smarter in some ways than your verbal brain) is trying to get your attention. Intuition is one of many things that non-scientists think cannot be studied by science, or they might think "shouldn't" be studied by science (ie, Charles). But, in fact, intuition is a mental process that IS quite susceptible to scientific inquiry. One of my favorite lifetime hobbies is trying to find scientifically unanswerable questions. Some still exist,* but to my continous amazement and amusement, the list is getting smaller.

This is not to say that there are not parallel, coexisting "belief systems" outside of science.

*the 7-23 additional spatial dimensions, for example. :-(
"your" rather.
If you're going to accuse people of following the great god Science, then I will be one of the first to stand up and get baptised. I'll go out and get myself a ceremonial lab coat, and get the symbol of the atom traced on my forehead in good ol' H2O and take my place in front of the holy bunsen burner. I'll open the gifts my relatives sent me - oh lookit, a whole new set of erlenmeyer flasks, how fun!

Heh...we had the same undergraduate chem lab, didn't we?
@65; it was a joke joyce
Harpie nails? Ouch.

@65 Can't remember your great lecture to me on self perception of gender. And putting me down and using abusive words- pure Gemini. Rest my case.
Got you all in a lather, bout something you don't even believe in.
@65, I think I remember the thread. I think I was just trying to understand- and going from my experiences in life.
Which really is all you ever got. Oh, and the Great God Science. Always speaking the truth with that God on one's shoulder, I guess.
@69 - Oh, I would agree. There have been so many fantastic discoveries made because someone had an idea that something *might* work, and then went ahead and tested it and ta-da! But intuition like that can lead to science-y stuff, and then to evidence; it isn't taken as proof by itself. And my objection isn't necessarily to existing belief systems, just to those systems being presented as fact and thus as infallible, no matter how many people stand up and say, "Yeah, no, that's not true for me and it's not true for all of these people and what the hell are you smoking anyhow?"

@71 - I imagine many of them are exactly the same!

@72 - You puffed up your chest and offered a challenge. Hell of a joke, mate. And yeah, the last time I tried to patiently explain something to you over and over again, it was quite painful, thanks.
@75; Just because I didn't agree with your point of view, doesn't mean I'm ignorant. Just means you didn't convince me.
And keep your bitchy words and direct them straight back at yourself.
Pure LG, to act all offended when someone points out that you are ignorant and clearly happy to remain so. And no, the whole point I was making was that you absolutely refused to understand, to even try to open your mind to the concepts that I and others were putting forth to you. You kept coming back with "But lady parts mean you're a woman, period", no matter how we attempted to explain that it doesn't always work like that. There was *zero* attempt to understand on your part. I'm well aware of the futility of trying to argue with you and your grand belief system, but I will say this.

@74 - "Oh, and the Great God Science. Always speaking the truth with that God on one's shoulder, I guess."

Yes, actually - yes! So glad you got it. Or maybe not. Your comment does feel a wee bit sarcastic and all. Science is not a system of beliefs, it is FACT. So yes, having GGS sitting on my shoulder whispering in my ear does enable me to speak truth, yeah. Lucky me that I live in the real world and all.
@77; Lady, go fuck yourself. I'm not hurt. I've reared six loud mouthed kids, and buried one of them.
Nothing you say can get to me.
My point of view is as valid as yours. Perception of gender, that a scientific truth now?
I'm not the one reverting to foul-mouthed insults. I'm not claiming to have hurt you at all, but I clearly have offended you in one way or another, since you choose to keep responding, and rather vehemently, at that. So, yeah, I have gotten to you. You are perfectly entitled to your point of view, and others are perfectly entitled to point out that you're wrong.

I am in no way an expert on the science of gender dysphoria, but yes, there have been studies done, and yes, it is a truth that there are people for whom their physical characteristics do not match up with their mental state. If I meet someone who was born with male sex organs but she tells me that she is female, I will accept that as truth. Because that is that individual's truth and who the fuck am I to tell them otherwise? Whereas you - according to the beliefs spouted on that previous thread - would call her sick and try to convince her that she just needs a little therapy in order to accept the piece of meat hanging between her legs.
Astrology is fun! It provides a basis for conversation sometimes when nothing else is available. When conversing with strippers, for example. And unlike sports, it doesn't require you to be up on the latest game scores or personnel.

I say this as a Gemini, born a twin. Double Gemini. Look out world.
Oh and Sanguisuga, you seem like you're being a dick. Lavagirl is ok. Knock it off.
@79; Perfectly entitled to point out I'm wrong? Girl, you are funny. Really, really funny.
Oh. Of course. My point of view on trans issues.
Gave it. Still believe in what I said. And no. Not talking about it again.
Good night and remember, you guys still live in a democracy.
Maybe for not much longer, by the look of the loons trying to win office.
I sure as hell live in one. And my opinion, just as valid as the next fuckers.
Yes, yes I am. If you're entitled to spout it, then I am entitled to refute it. And I never said that you couldn't have an opinion. But opinions aren't facts, either.
No, not all opinions are valid, let alone equally valid. They may be equal before the law, but in terms of logic, fairness, nd being thought through, opinions and points of view are decidedly not all equal.
Jesus. When I gave my opinions, as far as I remember- I gave valid( to me) reasons for said opinions.
I will never ever approach the trans subject again. The forces of fascist thought have truly silenced me on this subject.
Thanks Lance. Kind of you.
If you treat astrology as a lark and have fun with it, then that's cool, no harm, no foul. If you base actual real-world decisions on it (such as "I will not date men born between April 21st and May 21st because they are too loud"), then there is something in your brain that does not work correctly, and I don't mind telling you that.

I will never ever approach the trans subject again. The forces of fascist thought have truly silenced me on this subject.
So fascist, those facts! Yeah, you're really oppressed. Meanwhile, trans women are killed for trying to be who they are, while the worst you have to endure is being snarked at on the internets. So crawl down off your cross already.
Cross? I ain't on no cross. Seilo@90.
They are just ideas. You know? Ideas can't hurt people. They are meant to extend the conversation. Ideas. Thoughts. Theories.
Still, to me, my ideas stem from my understanding of the human body and the human mind.
And I know, my motivation came, in those statements I wrote- all those weeks ago- from my concern for people's health. The body is a miraculous piece of machinery.
And why, if my ideas are so whacky, so off the mark, do you guys still sit on such anger about them? Why not just dismiss such ideas as those of a whack job.
Unless, you also see a kernel of truth in them.
LavaGirl @14 "Make a deal with your guy. He has his threesomes with two women. You get to have threesomes with two men."

Good advice for some, though probably not for the LW.
Lol, people actually take this astrology shit seriously? Christ, take a fucking science class.
Ms Lava - As far as astrology goes, I wouldn't even object to people's letting astrology decide on their partners (anyone who would do so would be no great loss - much as I always approve retroactively of any breakup or divorce, even if I would not have advised it before the fact), or use it to make the vast majority of personal decisions that won't have negative effects on other people. LW wanted to impose her belief on Mr Savage and get him to answer from her perspective, which he declined to do, if brusquely (but not in a way that was out of character; presumably most people who consult Mr Savage know that he's likely to be brusque if he sees cause, even about something they may hold dear).

I'll sort of agree with Mr Thrust; one doesn't have to believe in astrology to have enough familiarity to converse about it - if anything, it may remind me of Mr Savage ducking into the odd church every now and again.

As far as "valid (to me) reasons" for opinions, Mr Blues has in perhaps thousands of posts given valid (to him) reasons for calling Mr Savage and all gay people some extremely nasty names. I hope you are not suggesting that the posters who respond to his vicious attacks think that his opinions contain a kernel of truth.

I have some fellow feeling for being more than once the only one defending Opinion X in a thread. I hope I won't upset you too much if I say that one might reasonably infer that your expression of voicing your opinion proudly out of concern for people's health could indicate that you question the motives of others who disagree with your opinion. I also hope that you can accept that other people might, with equally good intentions of concern for people's well-being, have heard and read as much on the subject as you and found contrary opinions to your own to be better-supported and more helpful to the people most directly affected without it becoming a personal attack on you.
@94, Perfect.
Venn; I don't question people's motives.
Obviously people believe that the direction taken by those with deep gender issues, is the direction to take. Or that direction wouldn't be taken.
Such a direction, to me, seems very drastic. Seems to deny the fragile workings of the body. Seems to deny how important the mind is, in self perceptions.
Astrology always struck me as too innocuous to get all worked up about. I've never heard anybody use Mercury being in retrograde as an excuse to beat up queer folks. That said, it is annoying that the LW would use astrology as both an excuse to not own her feelings and to attribute her boyfriend's request to something other than simple desire. That said, if the alternative is to believe your boyfriend needs threesomes because he has twin sisters, I'd start spouting all kinds of silly shit too. Better yet, I'd just move on.
Venn, there has been such advances in understanding the mind, that it is capable of much more change than previously thought.
And why all the aggression and abuse when someone, like me, questions
"The Line".
Ends any sort of discussion, inquiry. Really, not my issue. Not my pain.
And the abuse I got hit with, for just pointing out the truth, all those weeks ago- like, whatever.
Lavagirl the problem is that you ideas HURT PEOPLE. You're ideas make it hard for trans people to find acceptance both internally and in society. Do you really want to do that? Is that the person you want to be?
My ideas hurt people?
You don't think injecting hormones and cutting into bodies,doesn't hurt people?
Insane. Ideas are to open the mind, no matter how hard that may be.
Humans have a body and a mind. Far as I see it;
Work on the mind First. Hard as one can.
Before altering the Body.
LG, if you don't want to discuss trans issues, DON'T DISCUSS TRANS ISSUES.
I stopped reading the second she mentioned astrology.

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