Comments

1
Why does the collective noun "men" need to be modified by the adjective "black"?
2
jesus what a clusterfuck.

I hope the perps recover, and I hope the cop has a good reason for shooting them over a failed petty theft.
3
What the fucking fuck.
4
I work a couple blocks from city hall, protests have already begun. The kids (they were 20, but still, very young) were UNARMED. They were fleeing. The cop didn't wait for backup. And the cherry on the shit sundae is the police chief saying it was "not racially motivated".

This is going to be a shitstorm, especially with Evergreen not 2 miles up the road. And OlyPD deserves every moment of it.
5
Michael Brown's "interaction" was not instigated by the suspected shoplifting. The cop was unaware of that at the time that he confronted Mike.
6
@1 If you don't think racial politics is relevant in the police shooting of unarmed men accused of a petty crime then I have to imagine you live under a rock somewhere.
7
@1, Have you suffered some sort of traumatic brain injury that has completely destroyed your short- and long-term memory? Do you have any recollection whatsoever of any major, recent cultural events and/or social unrest? Have you completely forgotten what words mean and why people use them?
8
Evergreen student here. Olympia PD just stepped on a kombucha-flavored public relations landmine. As if any of the students here need much of an excuse to hate cops. Thanks, Oly PD, for confirming all those fears because one of you couldn't be fucked to calm down and not, you know, shoot civilians. Psychos.
9
@5 -- And Brown was suspected of strong-arm robbery, not shoplifting. And DOJ -- which came down hard on Ferguson PD and court system -- also determined the "hands up, don't shoot" story was totally bogus.

But never let facts get in the way of a good outrage.
10
First, when will people start to recognize that 'disrespect of cop' is a capital offence? Second, yeah, that skateboard is lethal alright.
12
Thank god they're not dead. I hope they both make a full recovery and get medically compensated (by the officer preferably).
13
Good Afternoon Charles,
While this incident in Olympia is most unfortunate, I am going to wait for more info before I render any opinion on it. I do hope the citizens especially those that protest keep basic human civility in mind. I also hope both men recover.

Also as @5 mentions, the DOJ effectively endorsed Officer Darren Wilson's version of what happened that tragic day in Ferguson last year. It was most unfortunate for Michael Brown but Wilson appears to have justification in shooting Brown. I would be careful using the Michael Brown narrative in "police shooting unarmed black men scenarios". There were no heroes that day in Ferguson. Only victims.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2015/…
14
Anyone else care to wait and see what the facts are? Might matter a bit.
15
wait and see what the facts are...
like, another 500 years?
16
Sure am glad I never got shot all those times I was under aged, drinking stolen beer on the street at night. Good thing I was in lily-white Sammamish and had the right skin tone.
17
@15, or, as in the case of Michael Brown, facts don't matter.
18
@10, sure, what's the worst you can do with a skateboard?

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Mu…
19
So many facts from Ferguson...like this one:

"...I felt that another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse ... I've already taken two to the face and I didn't think I would, the third one could be fatal if he hit me right..."

And, here are the pictures of that horribly beaten face mere hours after the event: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/justice/fe…

So yes, we are waiting for more details from Olympia...

But whatever you we learn, remember not to believe your own eyes.
20
@9,

Is the K your middle initial by any chance?
21
This is utterly deplorable, but not surprising give that cops are expanding their job responsibilities to include prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner.
22
According to KOMO's report, the beer wasn't actually stolen:
Officer Ryan Donald was among those who responded around 1 a.m. to a call from a Safeway, Roberts said. Employees said two men tried to steal beer and then threw the alcohol at workers who confronted the pair.
23
@11: actually, the lesson we should learn from Michael Brown's death is that there are a million ways to prevent or de-escalate conflict but that white America doesn't give a shit about black lives, so long as cops can escalate conflict to a sufficient degree to justify killing young black men. Think about it, while you think about the civil rights disaster you gleefully encouraged to whet your lust for power (not that you ever experience contrition--after all, you're a Republican).
27
^ welcome back to Slog
29
@23: This, yet another, trigger-happy police shooting is a sociological problem - not a 'political disposition' problem of those involved. You don't have to be a Democrat/liberal to be outraged about this.
30
@28: You're wrong. I thought the "color-blind" approach was the best in accordance with MLK's teachings. Please cite his references if I'm wrong. I'm looking forward to your answer.
31
Hello to the cool person in Oly!!! A.C.A.B. indeed!!! Protest at Sylvester Park??
32
@ 30, color blindness of your type is a privilege that minorities do not get to enjoy. That will change when cops gun down unarmed (or legally armed) white suspects at the same rate as they do black suspects. Until that happy day arrives, we should not be color blind because the police don't seem to be.
33
@32: Good to see you again Matt. But I disagree, we don't have to have blood-for-blood to achieve a better society.
34
@15
500 years?

How about until the investigation is over, chucklehead? See, we live under laws. And as much as your hate filled bigot mind loathes the thought, police officers too are innocent until proven guilty.

And while we're at it simpleton, try this for avoiding conflict with the police- don't attack police officers after assaulting store clerks while trying to steal beer. I mean, not being a thug might mean not being treated like one.

I know. All cops are racist KKK executioners of innocent young black men on their way to mow their grandmas yard after volunteering at the food bank and after that they'll be going off to their tutoring sessions with orphans! In your addled bigoted mind anyway. Oh well. You've been taught hate and fear which is your parents fault. What's damning is how much you enjoy it.
35
These kids were stealing beer and threw bottles at Safeway employees, this isn't Gandhi. Anyone with a brain knows you don't approach or even backtalk a cop like it or not.

Why cant the millenials learn how to act around cops? It's pretty straight forward (do what they say, keep your beer stealing mouth shut and sure as shit don't swing your skateboard idiot)
39
@ 34: For someone who is so eager to "wait until the investigation is over" it's mind boggling how you hypocritically accuse these "thugs" of attacking "police officers after assaulting store clerks while trying to steal beer".

The FACT is that there is a racist status quo that has been around for 500 years in this country. Slavery never ended it just got twisted into the the "War on Drugs" and the profit mongering private prison-industrial scam we live in. If you're a black male you have a 1 in 3 chance of ending up in prison. One. in. three.

I don't need to "wait until the investigation is over" to be skeptical about who the real "thugs" are.

Fucking A 500 years.
41
You're not unarmed if you assault someone with a skateboard.
42
There are plenty of legal, moral, and ethical reasons to use deadly force against someone who is "unarmed".
43
@39: Well put.
44
@41 and @42 People like you are exactly the reason people like us are protesting. When we're protesting the continued excesses of a militarized police force, we are also protesting the attitude like yours of "Well, they're thugs because they had skateboards!" Nobody is saying that it's right what those two did, you could not miss the point more if you tried. Everyone is saying that this would have almost certainly gone down differently if:
- The perpetrators were white
- The policeman on duty had backup
- The policeman on duty had a body camera
- The policeman had followed proper protocol regarding the use of lethal force
- The police were better trained (although in this case since he was a military policeman, this seems to be a general point, not specific to this) to deal with situations like this so that the use of force did not immediately escalate from nothing to using a gun. Why the hell do police have pepper spray and batons if they're just going to piss themselves and reach for a gun at the first sign of trouble? Do they think those are just for decoration?

And before you get after me, this list, this explanation, isn't even for you personally. There's no point trying to convert someone like you, and you're the kind of person who gives incentive for people to actively avoid them. No, this is for the people who are still bewildered as to why there's anger over this.

Stay out of West Olympia. We don't want you here.
46
@44 "The policeman had followed proper protocol regarding the use of lethal force"

Please precisely recite that "protocol" for us. Chances are, you don't know it.
47
I'm sorry it had to be puted :(
48
@39

Slavery ended 150 years ago, moron.

The war on drugs was in some ways poor public policy. What it wasn't and isn't is a conspiracy by KKK members in high government office, you paranoid freak.

Know how to avoid prison? DON'T BREAK THE DAMN LAW! It's really weird how if you DON'T BREAK THE DAMN LAW you don't get prosecuted dor and convicted of BREAKING THE DAMN LAW. If one in three black men (and of course you don't account for recidivism) is imprisoned that's a problem. But not inextricably a race problem with the criminal justice system. You'd know, if you had a fynctionibg mind, that solving problems requires accurate statement of the causes of the problem.

Yes, racism is still an issue for Americans. For people generally, but even for us. And by 'us' I don't mean vile trash like you who hate and despise this great country, jackass. I mean real Americans. But every single time a thug who happens to be black gets in trouble with the law ot isn't necessarily racism, you cretinous bit of garbage.

@43
All the above applies to you as well, boy.
49
@48 have you ever thought about how your son would react to reading what you write here? You called a black dude a simpleton for sharing his experience on profiling.
Isn't your son half black? Do you have any interest in how the police might interact with him?
I know you like to think you're the adult here, but seriously no respectable person writes the way you write. Civility goes a long way - especially if you are trying to convince someone they just simply needed to be civil to avoid lethal force.
I know you'll just skip addressing this comment, you always avoid any moment of self-awareness or even the abstract notion of your family as something beyond your property.
However, I am quite curious as to how you'd explain to your son your behavior on slog. You've bragged about kicking gay people out of your rentals, your obsession with Dan Savage is boarderline stalking to the point where you bring his child into it and your weird parental issues oozing out of nearly every comment. Lastly, you are a self proclaimed conservative arguing non-stop on a left leaning website. That makes you a troll. Being a troll is a weird, sad and lonely thing to do.
50
@46 Alright dipshit, you want to nit-pick? Let's nit-pick. There are six levels of force that at least military police officers are intended to use, in order if possible, to subdue and apprehend a suspect in order to avoid incidents like this. The first is verbal, the second is the use of pepper spray, the third is the use of a baton, this the fourth is use of a canine if possible, the fifth is presentation of a deadly weapon, and the sixth and final is the use of deadly force. Notice that he sailed aaaaall the way up to the sixth level of force, past all the other relevant means of apprehending them. He was armed with more than a gun and could have used them instead of a gun originally, but he did not. Get this into your head: He fucked up that night. He didn't follow protocol, he had less serious means of apprehending the suspects armed with no more than an awkward-to-swing laminated plank, but he didn't use them, he went for his gun. It was an inappropriate use of force even by police standards. When you jack off to the thought of these two guys getting what you in your infinite wisdom think they deserve for a crime you clearly know nothing about, you're jacking off to a breech of protocol, not some heroic policeman defending the honor of a case of beer.
51
Good Morning Charles,
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news…

I read the article & watched the video. There is no video of the shooting. But, it appears fairly conclusive that at least one of the young men was attempting to steal beer, threw the package at a Safeway security guard and then ran off. He had already taken a melon. So, it is no surprise they would be pursued by OPD. Did either deserve to be shot? That depends on whether the skateboard was wielded as a weapon. It appears from earlier in the video that one of the fellows oddly swings his skateboard and falls over. That "toy' could do some harm.

In any event, what I can conclude is that this unfortunate event involves TACTICS not RACE. Maybe the officer did use excessive force. Dunno. I don't think anyone on SLOG or anywhere else will know for sure. I do know that these young men were clearly suspect in a theft, a petty theft but a theft nonetheless. I do hope they recover. And maybe they learned their lesson w/o a subsequent prosecution for their deeds now recorded on camera.

As for the protests and outrage in Olympia, I'm not so sure it is warranted in this case. None of this would have happened if the two foolish young men hadn't taken the watermelon and attempted to steal beer at close to 1 am in a fairly empty grocery store.
52
@48: I'm loving the experience of being told "DON'T BREAK THE DAMN LAW!" by a guy who proudly insists that it is his innate right to violate any state (source) or federal (source) law that he doesn't agree with. Oh Seattleblues, will your flagrant hypocrisy and unashamed shitposting never cease?

Seriously, please explain why you proudly claim to break laws you don't think should be on the books and refuse to face the legal consequences (ibid) of such disobedience, all the while loudly calling on others to follow the law no matter what. Can you explain why you espouse this seeming double standard? (Of course you can't. You'll just continue to pretend you never read this, because you have no justification or explanation for your hypocrisy.)
53
@48: "If one in three black men (and of course you don't account for recidivism) is imprisoned that's a problem. But not inextricably a race problem with the criminal justice system. You'd know, if you had a fynctionibg [sic] mind, that solving problems requires accurate statement of the causes of the problem."
There are two possible causes of the observed effect, two potential underlying problems. Either there is a race problem with society that causes black people to be subjected to imprisonment at higher rates, or black people are inherently predisposed to commit crime and therefore are imprisoned at higher rates due to their own vices. Do you contest this assessment of the situation?

Let's continue. Evidence in support of the first possibility is abundant. The ACLU prepared a report detailing racial disparities in criminal sentencing, finding that black or Latino men on average are sentenced to significantly longer prison terms than white men found guilty of the same offenses, and that black men are often charged with more severe crimes for comparable criminal acts. They also find that habitual offender enhancements applied under prosecutorial discretion are consistently invoked against black defendants than against white defendants. Additionally, blacks are far more likely to be sentenced to life imprisonment without possibility of parole for nonviolent offenses. Finally, the death penalty is disproportionately invoked against black defendants and against murderers of white victims, and racial minorities are chronically underrepresented on juries in capital cases. (All claims refer to ACLU report.)

So there's all this evidence supporting the first possibility, and the second possibility is entirely unsupported. The only people I've seen the latter promoted by are overt racists who believe black people to be inherently violent and inferior to whites. And then you went ahead and insinuated that maybe it's not the first one, that maybe it's some other factor causing black people to end up in prison more than white people do! You've made some skeevy comments in the past about things like rap music and "thug culture", but that's nothing compared to denying that the American criminal justice system has a race problem. You just confirmed to us all that you are indeed HELLA RACIST.
54
@49, Do you think an African American woman would marry a bigot of this caliber? Pretty sure he lied about that too. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt if he addresses your question.

SO SB, tell us about your wife and children's lived experiences as people-of-color in a racist society. No, in fact, lets leave the kids out of it. Just explain to us how your wife has not disavowed you of these idiotic* ideas yet. Or do you guys not talk at all? What do you say to her when she comes home at the end of the day sad and angry about being followed by store security YET AGAIN**? Do you tell her it's just her imagination? Do you inform HER she was probably doing something suspicious? Do you tell her to suck it up? Do you tell her "life isn't fair" and shrug it off? (I'm laughing now thinking about that conversation. I'm reminded of Chapelle's Black White Supremacist skit, where a blind Black guy was KKK). When you travel together do you get stares and double-takes? Do you get critical looks from the other bigots? You know what they're thinking right? That you "married down" and that you're a "n****r lover." Don't those attitudes bother you at all, seeing as how you have first hand experience and all? (snort). Curious minds need to know...

*Prejudice, besides being extremely damaging, is annoyingly illogical.
**My (always well-behaved and well-dressed) Black friends STILL get treated like this all the time.

@39, thank you for that kind and rational post. Please stick around.
55
PS, love axolotls, especially cute baby cartoon ones.

Hey I found that Chapelle sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u__W0Qa8…
56
@50 Yours is a corrupt understanding of the so-called "protocol" for use of force. Officers (or regular citizens) are not required to attempt to use every level on the use of force continuum, before moving on to the next higher. If they are confronted with lethal force, they can respond with lethal force, skipping all other levels. And why wouldn't they? Why respond to a lethal assault with voice commands? It's established that the skateboard is a lethal weapon when used as a bludgeon. Add to that the disparity of force (two on one) and there's no way a reasonable person can see this shooting as anything but justified.
57
@56

Yes, 'lethal assault'...lets all pretend that cops dont lie about their interactions and use of force to cover their asses (9example- 0% of all resisting arrest charges in Seattle, for example, are dropped because the officer exaggerated or outright lied in their report and the charge...ask ANY defense attorney in the city or judge if you think I am lying).

Cops, especially white ones, join in the hopes to kills or assault a black person. And because their departments operate with the idea that all blacks are criminals, they justify racial hate with moral upstandingness. "Im not killing niggers, Im putting an animal down...keeping the streets safe...why arent they thanking me?!"
58
That should have been "Example - 90% of all resisting arrest charges in Seattle..."
59
@56 I'm not saying he should follow an *alleged* skateboard assault with "verbal force," obviously it warrants something stronger, what it doesn't warrant is a gun.

Let's get one thing straight, no "lethal assault" happened to this cop. No lethal *anything* happened to this cop. The suspect didn't walk up and say "I am now going to kill you with this skateboard." Also, it wasn't two men assaulting him. According to the report, it was one man assaulting him. Yet both men were shot and a stray bullet happened to make it into a civilian home. You've been trying to twist this into a poor police officer defending his life when the evidence available so far indicates that in fact it was a police officer overreacting to violence that may have never even happened.

Even if we didn't talk about the use of force, there are many other concerns that ought to be addressed. Excessive force is just one issue with the way that night played itself out. As for "establishing" skateboards as a lethal weapon, a fist can and often is a lethal weapon. In fact, in terms of actual capacity to harm someone, a fist is going to be much better than a skateboard; a skateboard is unwieldy, totally unbalanced for anything but being a skateboard, has terrible aerodynamics if you try and swing it down on someone, requires an awkward position to even swing like that in the first place which would cut down on the force of the impact, etc etc. A fist would be a much more effective weapon against someone if we're talking about blunt-force trauma. Even if it was, the officer wasn't hurt, and there's little evidence at all that such an "assault" took place.

In short, not only are you not seeing the forest for the trees, you're focusing on one tree and insisting that it is a flower.
60
57: "Cops, especially white ones, join in the hopes to kills or assault a black person." You're going to have to prove a charge like that.

#59: Skateboard as weapon: You're unaware of the two skateboard assaults in the past 10 or so years in the Seattle area that resulted in death? They've been posted at this website . . . Also, the legal standard to use deadly force is not "faced with deadly force". It's faced with force that may result in great bodily harm. You don't have to expect death to shoot - you have to be in fear of great bodily harm.
62
@60

Ok, but I sooooooo hope you follow up with a response after mine. Cop defenders have yet to.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-nypd-m…

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio…

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010…

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29432935/ns/us…

http://gawker.com/the-horrible-bigoted-t…

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/for…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_….

@61

You are assuming money trumps race in the courtroom. Ask an actual attorney. This is not now things work. The BEST, and MOST EXPENSIVE attorney in Seattle will not prevail against a pro-cop white judge, an all white jury, and a racist prosecutor who should be defending the victim rather than subtly defending cops (lets call him "slatterberg).

63
@54 you're a better person than I when it comes to respecting fictional characters. Kudos. The idea of SB ranting to his wife has me chuckling. Enjoy the holiday weekend. I'm sure SB will be as miserable as his posts make him out to be.
64
@62: I'm not sure what point you're trying to make . . . ? If you're trying to buttress your original charge that cops hire on to kill blacks, you're failing.
65
@64

Sure bro, look at all that evidence of cops who are violent racists, and who admit that the profession and most/many within it are violent racist, and then say "you are failing to prove a propensity for race based violence among cops". I mean, we all know that even though ducks waddle, quack, have bills, swim and have feathers...koalas are easily mistakable for ducks...with their feathers, duck bills, flying, and swimming in water. Thats pretty much what you are failing to sell here.

I thought the point I made and cited was fairly straight forward. But if you see the letter D O and G spelled out and stated as 'dog' and ask "I dont see what your are spelling", that might be your think, not a spelling problem.
66
Also, I was totally hoping for a "retort on the facts given" rather than "Ill pretend I didnt see those links and cited sources and respond".

Then again, Im dealing with cop defenders (and racism defenders), so, I guess I got what I came for...
67
@66: What facts? I read all the links. Didn't see many facts. Saw you label things and actions as racist that aren't.
68
@67

So you read the links, but saw now facts in them? Are you saying each one of those stories (spread out over 10 years and half the country) are lies? One involved a federal court case...you saying that didnt happen?
69
Hello to the cool persons of Olympia!!! ( the OP was a typo . . . but by who? The Gatekeepers who fear my honesty?)
70
Will The Stranger now change the headline on this article to remove the word unarmed? They were armed.

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