The touchstone of our analysis under the Fourth Amendment is always "the reasonableness in all the circumstances of the particular governmental invasion of a citizen's personal security." Terry v. Ohio, 392 U. S. 1, 19 (1968). Reasonableness, of course, depends "on a balance between the public interest and the individual's right to personal security free from arbitrary interference by law officers." United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U. ….
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Indeed she is heard on the video as saying that she can't wait to go to court for Christ's sake!
You cast this wrong Charles.
That said, I think he did technically have the right to ask her to get out and to arrest her.
He may have stepped over the line by leaning in and trying to drag her out of the car but the real question is why did he immediately push right up against the maximum enforcement within his power? Would he have done that with a well-to-do looking white man?
I think it goes back to what you said yesterday about cops not being afraid of African Americans. He ain't gonna let that uppity so-and-so talk to him that way, whereas with a distinguished older white gentleman it would have been "yes. sir, sorry sir" IF he even pulled him over for such a minor thing to begin with.
@2 if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
I'd hope you're reincarnated as a poor black woman, but reincarnation isn't real.
Here's the property response to any command:
1) Yes Officer
2) Whatever you say, Officer
3) Thank you, Officer
Save the rest of it for your lawyer later on (if you really are stupid enough to piss off the entire force by mouthing off).
Think of it this way...suppose you were a deadly criminal...wouldn't you want the police to be harsh and through? I know I do!
My question is, do we as citizens have the right to have our arrest remain on camera for it's entirety? I can't find any information suggesting that we do. I think it would promote a climate of safety and proper protocol. I know that, in a lot of situations that clearly has not mattered, but I'm curious as to whether or not we have that right. Considering he dragged her off camera.
BLAND: "I'm in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?"
why is every media outlet calling this an order?
an act of asking politely or formally for something.
politely or formally ask for.
she was forced out of her car at taser-point by questioning the cops request.
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
"This offense was committed against the peace and dignity of the state of Texas."
Or look at Donald Trump his abrasive and disrespectful attitude has hurt him so much he’s a frontrunner for presidential nomination. Hmmm.
Now for people like #13 and 28, let’s imagine a good ole boy cop pulled over one of them in his shiny Jag and detained and harassed him for NOT HITTING HIS BLINKER (I know, I know- just pretend). I’m sure he’d be all sweetness and light to the humble civil servant, right?? And if by some miracle he wasn’t, the cop would totally pull him out of his car while threatening to “light him up” and slam him on the pavement, right??
PROBABLY, but we’ll never know because hell would be an ice rink before he got pulled over and harassed to begin with.
TROOPER: "Are you done?"
BLAND: "You asked me what was wrong and I told you."
Next comes the standard attempt to humiliate the citizen by ordering her to do something purposely irrelevant. If she agrees, the officer is on top again. If she doesn't, it's time to quickly escalate. Here:
TROOPER: "Well, you can step out now."
BLAND: "I don't have to step on out."
Now the citizen has openly challenged the officer, and all gloves come because proportionality goes out the window when the officer needs to reassert his dominance. This plays out in video after video. Here is another of many variation of this theme of demanded submission and escalation, this time in Seattle:
This domination ritual is of course most easily played out on the bodies of citizens with the least status, with no voice to call for accountability.
How about The Stranger researches this a bit more, I'm sure there's academic papers documenting these games of power played by police officers on the least of us. It would make a great article.
“The American Negro has the great advantage of having never believed the collection of myths to which white Americans cling: that their ancestors were all freedom-loving heroes, that they were born in the greatest country the world has ever seen, or that Americans are invincible in battle and wise in peace, that Americans have always dealt honorably with Mexicans and Indians and all other neighbors or inferiors, that American men are the world's most direct and virile, that American women are pure. Negroes know far more about white Americans than that; it can almost be said, in fact, that they know about white Americans what parents—or, anyway, mothers—know about their children, and that they very often regard white Americans that way. And perhaps this attitude, held in spite of what they know and have endured, helps to explain why Negroes, on the whole, and until lately, have allowed themselves to feel so little hatred. The tendency has really been, insofar as this was possible, to dismiss white people as the slightly mad victims of their own brainwashing.”
― James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time
/check engine light has been on so i haven't gotten it inspected or gotten new tags finally got caught yesterday/
/I wish I would have recorded it and uploaded it under the title "what it's like to be a white guy"/
/he went out of his way to say that he'll make sure it gets taken care of as long as it gets inspected that he'll be there for my court appearance and tell the judge/da that I was polite and a good dude/
/well, my drivers side window has been broken for years, so I have to open my door
I opened slowly and told him why
and he said "don't worry about it man, you're good"/
/all of this was in a black neighborhood downtown, too/
(Me:) /well thats prob why you got pulled over in the first place, thought you were dwb/
/yeah he asked if I had any business being in that neighboorhood/
/I pulled in because I saw him
so he probably thought he was hitting the jackpot/
/oh, totally admitted to eluding, too which was stupid/
I wonder if a black person would have even survived the encounter.
There are some bad cops. Let's deal with them directly on an individual basis. For all the other cops that are out there doing good work: Stop acting like fucking assholes. If indeed #blacklivesmatter, then let's begin by showing some basic fucking decency to each other, regardless of color. Because, so far, it's a little hard to feel any sympathy for the asocial antics of a disaffected people. (A disaffected people that lives better than 90% of the planet.)
You want the officer to be punished? Fine, he'll resign.
You want the system to be held accountable? Will never happen without serious penalization of the perpetrators.
B) He did not seem reasonable. I've been ticketed several times and it's always been "License and registration" followed by the officer filling out a ticket, handing it to me, explaining how to contest it if I wanted to, and then leaving. The office had no reason to do anything else, but he noticed the woman wasn't acting properly cowed so he provoked a confrontation and rapidly escalated it. He ought to be getting tried for assault regardless of the death of this innocent woman.
Also, LOL at the fact that 49 responses, and less than 10 mention the word "racism". I love argumentative exercises some of you have to go through to ignore that primary aspect of what happened.
LITERALLY, 90% of Obstruction/Resisting Arrest charges are tossed due to factual accountability, inconsistencies, or other witnesses statements.
Cops lie all the time. Not even (though damn near always) in their interactions with black people. There was even a famous programmer here in Seattle that had the funds to call the SPD on their bullshit...and they went out of their way to destroy thousands of hours of dashcam footage after he won his case against them for resisting public records disclosure.
In summation: Cops lie. White cops ALWAYS lie when its an issue of their interaction with black people that has a violent result. Dare me to post example, then dare me to post studies showing this. Then dare me to post a 2 second google search showing the former.
LOL. Sure bro. Lets context the argument believing the obvious bullshit the cops have stated!
2. Most cops are better at their jobs than this asshole. But police forces seem to have a serious problem in getting rid of incompetent officers (like this guy). If the police want to have credibility, they need to start finding a way to get rid of guys like this, instead of standing with them.
I've had a sheriff's dept officer pull me over for not signalling early enough a right turn at an intersection. I was a little distracted by the asshole riding right behind my bumper on an otherwise deserted road, and signaled after I'd passed the stop sign, not before (which strikes me as an inherently ridiculous rule, but that's another rant).
My point is, this tactic of riding right behind people and pulling them over for an issue they caused seems to be the nationwide modus operandi. But at least I got a warning; I only had to suffer the minor indignity of being the entertainment to liven up his evening for a few minutes. I didn't ultimately end up dead over it.
Something is rotten.
I'm not up to date with he latest. Apparently she had told the police that she had previous suicide attempts, her family could not (or chose not to) bail her out - facts still pending. My comment is correct. It is either foul play and not a suicide, or other significant psychological despair is a factor other than being incarcerated. Indeed we hear her two or three times who she can't wait to get to court in the video.
I agree with @58, something is rotten. And its more than just a hot-headed jerky idiot cop.
She made the lane change upon entrance to another road to accommodate traffic. That is not the same as speeding along the freeway without signaling.
Lot of disgusting fucking bootlickers in this thread.
And per Rodriguez vs. United States (2014), he had no right to pull her out of the car. It was a traffic stop and should never have been anything more.
And that it's not a threat to their safety just because a person of color asks why the cop is hassling them?
What part of "it doesn't make cops one bit safer to be paranoid bigots than to treat everybody with equal respect" do the police not understand?
And what right to the cops have to expect PoC to respect them, cooperate with them or even bother trying to obey the laws when they always treat PoC worse than white folks?
It's Vietnam in the hood...the cops would rather keep fighting an unwinnable war forever than do the sane, decent thing and admit the war is wrong.
How many more Sandras? How many more Trayvons? How many more Tamirs?
How long, o Lord? How Long?
Or do you have language from that case you mention that is to the contrary?
I've worked on a couple of cases lately involving traffic stops and detentions, so it's fresh in my mind.
On topic, cops need to get it through their head that they work for us. We don't all need to be policed and not every infraction requires shock and awe.
@17: I love you
@36: I love you
@ all the blind racist idiots defending the perpetrator (who was obviously harassing and abusing her) and blaming the victim, your emptiness is terrifying. What fucking happened to you to make you side with aggressors? What makes a person do that? You are sick and I'm very sad for you. But also fuck you.
I started signalling after I passed the sign letting me know there was a stop sign ahead, not the stop sign itself (a difference of about 200ft on a 45mph road). That was what I meant in my slight aside about how it's a ridiculous premise to pull someone over for not signalling before they reach the sign warning that there's an intersection/stop sign ahead: the whole point of the sign is to alert people who wouldn't know it's coming in the first place.
I agree with you entirely about the function of turn indicators.
But look, if you have a winning argument otherwise, I'm not the one you have to convince. Take it to the courts. If you can prove that ordinary police procedures during traffic stops are unconstitutional you should have a thriving business.
Ongoing instances of deliberate police misconduct and abuse of authority just keep getting worse and worse.
Law-breaking by police, with no action taken to enforce the law when police are the law-breakers, just keep getting worse and worse.
And there's nothing anybody can do about it.
- - -
America, where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now?
We can't fight alone against the monster.
#1, I think you might finally believe me that a cop would be left twitching and drooling for acting in that manner toward yours truly.
Does the fed pay for Hefty bags?
I doubt it. I really do.
The rest is imaginary.
It's all her own damn fault.
She should have just obeyed the unwritten law of white cops in the deep south :
Lower her eyes.
Don't ask questions. And, don't answer the cop's argumentative questions, either.
Instantly follow his illegal and contradictory "orders".
And, say "Yes Massa".
It's all right there, in black-and-white, in the United States Constitution : three-fifths of a human being.
I have this video on my company's site, tho..
Oh, and she knew how to tie a slipknot.
I'm pretty sure any decent cop would have been smiling and thrilled to partake in civilized discourse with someone who while, was upset, was quite legally and rightfully voicing her opinion.
Aaaand we spot a corpse on side of the road.
Black kid, wearing red, you could see the muscle and sinew through his broken neck.
A black SUV hit him at a very high speed. The driver stepped out and cry-vomited.
A female officer showed up and asked us if we saw anything and I told her that "No, we had just gotten here."
She told us to leave, and we did.
So then we take a few hits(snap :/) of this banana and I've never had anything so strong.
Anyways, we are on the way back and I'm yelling "TURN LEFT" at the driver as he heads in between the cones and stops in the investigation zone.
The cops come over and are like "wtf" and I'm pretty much in a state of shock.
Male officer asks me why I'm not wearing a seatbelt. I tell him I didn't know that I had to. He smiles and laughingly all but yells "REALLY? YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A SEAT BELT IN WASHINGTON?"
"Not in the back seat."
"Oh, well I'm giving you a ticket."
I'm just staring into space and say Ooookaaay?
I never paid that ticket.
That's called discourse.