Blogs Nov 19, 2015 at 9:23 am


Was GI Joe with kung fu grip and lifelike hair a "Doll"?
Except the fashion moguls' Barbies cost $$$, and are usually bought by doll collectors, who never even remove them from their boxes (since apparently that would decrease their monetary value). They should have used the $9.99 Barbies. I read that this Moschino Barbie is $150 - mommy wouldn't be too happy if her little boy cuts THIS Barbie's hair - no matter how okay she is with him being gay. I'm only talking about us hoi polloi, of course; maybe the super rich's kids do play with these overpriced-cheap-plastic creepy dead-eyed things.
Just looked at the doll. Please PLEASE tell me BIG HAIR isn't back!!😨 THE HORRORS, THE HORRORS!
Anyone else have dolls, but play with them in a stereotypically "boy" way? In the 80's, my Barbie's were in a very intense and drawn-out war with a faction of My Little Ponies. My parents were baffled.
My mother bought my younger sister a
Barbie and stuff and not me. The bitch.
So. I now have a Barbie collection. Not excessive. Just a few different dolls from over the yrs. A few more imaginative of her get ups. A Barbie horse. How I would have loved a Barbie horse. These guys all still in their boxes.
Well said, Dan. EXCEPT science says 75% of gender non-conforming boys grow up gay.

So it's "most" not "almost all."

the other 25%? some grow up trans*, some grow up bi, some grow up straight
Yeah, there are straight men who played with girly stuff as a kid. I played with masculine toys and I became a pretty straight woman.

The existence of stereotypical gay boys shouldn't be considered a bad or weird thing though.
Perfectly put, Mr. Savage. I was not the type who blended in and never will be, but I'm stronger than my childhood.
I had to play with my cousins Barbie dolls because I wasn't allowed to have my own. My mom finally bought me a Bionic Woman doll even though my dad wasn't happy about it. I made her go on adventures, as a typical boy would do, and then I also designed dresses for her. Because that red pantsuit was hideous.
So anyway, I love this commercial.
Totally agree with you 100%, Dan. A thousand percent. Yeah, it's great that we now have out athletes whom back in the 1950s no one would imagine was gay. But back in the 50s, it was the effeminate guys who paved the way because they simply couldn't hide if they tried. They got fired from their nice corporate jobs -- if they even managed to get hired in the first place. The stereotype of hairdressers and florists being gay comes from these effeminate guys who weren't allowed to work in corporate America and were forced to become self-employed independent contractors or small business owners simply so they couldn't be fired to being gay.

A gay friend of mine will sometimes look at a swishy, effeminate guy and grouse, "That guy just set the movement back ten years." I just want to punch my friend. Are you kidding? That guy made it possible for people like my friend to come out. The effeminate guy whom your mother or grandmother went to to buy flowers or get their hair done is what made her slowly become more comfortable with gay people, and ultimately with having a gay son or grandson. They didn't set the movement back. Since World War II and possibly even earlier, they're the ones who slowly but surely served on the front lines and allowed the movement to advance.
@11 - I didn't get a Barbie, though I did play with my cousin's. I had the Bionic Man action figure but always wanted the Bionic Woman one instread. But we did have a Star Trek play set so Uhura got to be my Barbie. ;-)
@13. Here! Here!
One Million Moms loves this.
"but almost almost all little boys who played with dolls grow up to be gay men"

Bull. Shit.
@6 "In the 80's, my Barbie's were in a very intense and drawn-out war with a faction of My Little Ponies."

I saw that on the History Channel. What a horrific war -- so much hair lost.
@ 1 - They called it an "action figure".

I had a GI Joe (the 12 inch model) and a Big Jim, who looked like they were in a "daddy/son" relationship, and boy did they see a lot of "action" together! When my parents and siblings weren't around, obviously.

Looking back, I think that was much gayer than playing with my sisters' Barbie dolls, but nobody noticed.
@ 13 - Very eloquently said. And so fucking true.
I, straight boy, had barbies. But I admit it was mostly so I could bring them over to the girl next doors house and have naked pool parties in the sink.
I couldn't find the "harmful stereotype" jab to which I thought Mr Savage was referring. A full three quarters of a point to Mr Kevin, and a solid closing paragraph from Mr Savage, which manages to make its case without swinging the pendulum too far the other way and equating being straight-appearing with flame-shaming. (I've been composing a rather difficult communication this week to a gay young man who doesn't feel at home in any of the circles or boxes in his society of any orientation. At least I'm fairly certain he's not my Serial Complimenter from the summer.)
Don't have any argument with the main point here, but I work with little kids, and lots of little boys play with dolls, until someone tells them they're not supposed to. Even then, they often find a way to work themselves into the game - they play with Barbie's dog, or her horse, or something else just "masculine" enough that they get to be in on the doll play. Boys who have sisters especially learn early that playing with dolls is fun.
Kevin_BGFH, you win the comment thread.

delta35, where's the 75% figure from?
It has been very sexist all these years. I was a boyie girl, and I never got any slack for it or none I noticed.
I want one of those Barbie's.
I had dolls, but not Barbie. I had the Knights of the round table, with cool armor, and Star Trek dolls with the bridge of the enterprise with the transporter thing that you spun around. I even had the Gorn doll.

But best of all were my Star Wars Action figures. My dolls mostly had light sabers and blasters, and Instead of a Dream Car or Beach House they had X-Wings and the Millennium Falcon. But even then it wasn't lost on me that I was playing with dolls.

And still do. I still have them all because I will never grow up.

I never got Barbie. Other than changing her clothes I never understood what she was supposed to do. Princess Leia was supposed to save The Republic.
If typically masculine gay guys wince at the over-the-top femmes because "they make all gays look like sissies*," then it is the butch guys' duty to show the world otherwise. The swishy guys already did their bit.

I have failed to notice "girly" lesbians being upset by their "butch" sistren. I'm sure it happens, but I wouldn't think more so than lesbians getting needled for being too feminine. I suppose It's not just the gender nonconformity, but essentially the femininity that [stupid] people have a problem with.

*Actually, I just listenned to Savage's defense of sissies piece on TAL a few days ago. Good stuff.
@26 - Barbie can do whatever the kid who is playing with her wants her to do - there is no limit except that of the child's imagination.

As a childhood educator, I'm not crazy about the unrealistic body image that Barbie promotes.

In every other way, though, Barbie is a very good doll for kids to play with. She is an adult, which is important - nurturing play with baby dolls is a good thing, but it's not the only thing. She's not limited by belonging to one specific role - a Star Wars doll is fine, but is best for just playing Star Wars. If you want your space roving doll to also be a veterinarian and a magician, hey, Barbie fits the bill.

Of course, all of this is true for any generic adult doll. But the good thing about Barbie is that there is by now such a huge world of accessories and clothes that it's possible to give that imagination a springboard. Not hard to find a lab coat to fit your Barbie, and a clipboard, and boots, and and and.....

If the only thing you can think of to do with Barbie is change her clothes, you're missing 90% of the experience.
My brother "played" with the Barbies belonging to my sister and me by yanking off their arms (and occasionally their heads) and leaving a trail of pieces around the playroom.
@28 I never had a desire to play with Barbie so I don't feel I'm missing anything.

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