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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
Either that or he used the wrong word. Hell, he might've even meant more empathetic, it's been known to happen (particularly if you change your mind about which word to use but forget to change surrounding words).
Asshole quotient still there, but could definitely be bigger.
As much as we don't want to hurt our partner in a relationship, there is no point in continuing a charade..
My only critique about Mr. Sizing the Asshole, is he kind of took a rebound way out, by dumping his fiancee for someone already in the wings, while his former fiancee was probably in shock with the kick to the curb motion.. However in the long run, it was the right decision.. Just don't torture your former fiancee or wanting to make nice with her, let her be and leave her alone..
Perhaps before you propose again, really check LW. If this situation became a habit, then perhaps you'd be called up to front the Committee.
Verdict? Unintentionally a bit of an asshole, but not a fatal flaw this time around.
Are you an asshole LW? Could be, or just a young man who isn't ready to settle down yet. Know thyself and do not take false brides or gods.
He managed to walk down the primrose path to proposing with someone who is not only not his sociological match, but who is also some degree of LDR. If that wasn't enough, there apparently were a number of incompatibilities in addition to political ideologies. I'm thinking that the proposal never should have happened in the first place, given the amount of compromises that were hinted at. Therefore I'm wondering just which one of them was subtly railroading the other, because he clearly had a Revelation when he met SE (something along the lines of "Holy shit, it's possible to have a relationship where the people are basically a good fit to start!")
Sometimes, a capacity for unapologetically saying "No" right up front makes you, paradoxically, less of an asshole than if you try to be totally accommodating.
Now that you're on another track, take your time, figure shit out, love your woman up. And delay the marriage proposal thing until you're damn certain it's the right move this time.
I too am confounded about the 'less empathetic' feature of your new squeeze. Please, please won't you brave taking a moniker on this thread and clarifying for us all? Isn't 'less empathetic' a drawback, not an asset?
But then we hear "the rest of the story". . . . And now I'm thinking, maybe ALL engagements should be private for 3 to 6 months. And only then, if you're both still thrilled with each other, should it be made public. We see so many letters (and know people in our own lives) who felt committed to going through with the wedding primarily because they'd announced it.
I don't think hurdles to marriage should be legally required, but if the norms were for engagements to be seen as a truly trial period, some joint counseling sessions were had to discuss life goals and openly discuss incompatibilities, and if canceling an engagement and a wedding were seen as wise instead of as a failure; the divorce rate would be much lower.
I cried into my breakfast plate the morning of my second wedding, knowing I'd cornered myself into an impossible commitment. I wish I'd had half the fortitude of this dude who recognized the engagement should be a no-go. I could've saved myself and those who care for me a lot of heartache.
I wish now that I'd been an asshole many years ago instead of getting dumped--by a partner I truly love very much but with whom I am clearly incompatible--now, at 40 with 2 kids. There's a hell of a lot more asshole in this breakup than there would have been if we'd broken up two or five years into it.
On the 1-10 scale of assholery, I'd give LW a 2.5, tops, and it'd be a 0 if he'd come to his senses before popping the question.
I see no real assholes--if we're ignoring one person's Republicanism, which gets at least a 3 by default--and two people who dodged a bullet.
LW: Don't propose to the new girl for at least 3-5 years. Avoid developing that pattern.
That said, I've known many people who have broken off engagements, including one woman who did so on the day of her wedding. While that seems cruel, it is vastly better to have done that, than go through with the wedding, have children, and try to hope that things work out. Wasting years of someone's life is far, far worse, especially when you know the right thing do beforehand, and all too often those are the unhappy people writing into Dan.
On the empathy thing...did you mean that LDR was an extremely sensitive and reactive partner? Because walking on eggshells is not a good thing..and if you picked someone you don't have to walk on eggshells for, then stop worrying about your SOA...that's a get out of jail (guilt) free card.
He didn't want to save this woman heartbreak, he just found someone better to suit his needs, and he obviously engineered it so that he didnt give up LDG unless SE reciprocated. I'm not saying he's destined to be an asshole forever, but he's certainly an asshole now.
And frankly he doesn't seem that concerned about whether he's an asshole or not. He doesn't mention anyone else's feelings in this matter at all, nor does he ever say he loved LDG, nor does he allude to any degree of guilt, blame, shame, sadness. His question, how big of an asshole am I, seems a bit psychopathic (sociopathic?). Like he is very calculating, and only wants to know how he comes off to others because he doesn't have an internalized sense of right and wrong. Eh, maybe he's just young and dumb and confused.
Sounds like he meant MORE and typed less.
@26: Sounds like he might just be dumb-of-youth and eager to please. I don't understand the whole asking someone to marry you then not telling anyone for long enough for you to meet someone else and date them for an extended period of time though, let alone continuing the charade for so long that you discuss your engagement, repeatedly with the new woman.
Life is a little messy sometimes (I had to wait until my spouse was extricated from their situation before I started officially dating them, but I made that a precondition before I bothered) so hopefully the guy learns something from all of this.
That's not necessarily at odds with the perspective and concerns of youth, though!
Calculating? If only. It seems like a little calculation could've saved him and LDG some unnecessary heartbreak.
But I agree that a lot changes based on whose idea it was not to tell anyone. If it was him, that's a huge red flag--and should've been a huge red flag to him as well.
It's probably never a good idea to date (or get engaged to) someone you want to hide for no good reason.
Sounds like a package deal to me. No typo. He likes that she's an alpha.
I wonder if everyone would have failed to recognize that if the genders were reversed.
I could be completely wrong but i'm going to go out on a limb here. I wonder if a boy of 25 who dates a 31 year old woman, moves states to be closer to her, and proposes to her, doesn't maybe tend towards codependence or.... is carrying some kind of emotional baggage (and who isnt carrying some?) that leads him to want the emotional safety and comfort of a LTR. this is common of course, but it could really have shaped his wanting to commit even though the signs were all there that it wasnt a great match. he never states that he loved her.
i see him as an easily forgiveable asshole. I just wish his tone wasn't so blase about (presumably) breaking someone's heart... I think I would look more favorably on his future prospects for non-assholism if he seemed more concerned about the upheaval he caused. It may honestly just be what i'm reading into it - please check me - but he just doesn't sound like he's really having any inner turmoil over this. it's just like, hey dan, can i still call myself a good person, please? (ie, did i get away with this maneuver?)
I think he wanted out of his engagement and SE was a convenient way to justify it. (she's a better match!) For that - for being young and regretting making a (semi)commitment and not knowing how to exit gracefully - he has my sympathy, because I too was an asshole in this situation once.
He does seem very cavalier regarding the situation. And what is the deal with "hiding" the engagement with the first woman? But I was in his exact shoes at 22. I wish I'd been open to a better deal that would have stopped me from getting married. Ultimately it would have saved ourselves much heartache.
Disagree, you can be Trump-lite and both meek/cowardly and non-empathetic, and the counterpoint caring and bold. I know what he wrote, but I assume the typo because there's no complaint he made about the ex being TOO empathetic.
@38: True as well.
The only assholery is stringing along a woman in her 30s. Babies aren't mentioned, but conservative, rural, people-pleaser--I'm making an educated guess that she'd like some soon.
@3, @14, others: I did mean SE is less empathetic. Sort of along the lines that @14 proposed* -- a list of pros and cons. As @13 mentioned, we are often attracted to opposites and I think that's been quite true of me in the empathy department. As you know from my moniker, I'm a serial relationshippist, and except for the one Crazy XGF (childhood abuse, police, suicide attempts, hospitals, etc.) who was frequently numb, I've really only dated high-empathy, right-brained women. So I really meant "less empathetic" in a value-neutral way. I perceive it to be true, and I perceive there to be advantages and disadvantages of both. Similar to how I'm the right-sized asshole, implying that a small-assholed partner is undesirable*.
Still working through reading the rest of these replies -- and thanks -- but I just wanted to nip the "did you really mean empathy" thing.
- MSR / LW / OP / whatever
*you're welcome
| "And now I'm thinking, maybe ALL engagements should be private for 3 to 6 months. And only then, if you're both still thrilled with each other, should it be made public."
Yes, this is what we were thinking. It wasn't like one of us was trying to control the other, like how if you never meet her friends it's a real problem. It was more like because we still lived in separate places and had already talked about how we would NOT do LDR once married, we wanted to have come to solid answers about the logistical barriers before announcing anything. "We'll figure it out when we get there" x500 friends and family just wasn't going to cut it for us.
SE actually doesn't know that LDG and I had agreed to marry. Neither do my parents, for that matter. I didn't tell anyone, though I was obviously excited when we agreed and I subtly hinted at it to 2-3 friends. She definitely told at least one person, probably a few more.
But I think you read me wrong here, 27. The repeated conversations were with LDG about my feelings-struggle with SE; not conversations with SE about engagement to LDG.
She accepted, only to find that VFA had asked all THREE women he was simultaneously in relationships with to marry him, pretty much at the same time.
All three accepted (without knowing about the others) and VFA chose one to marry, but not the memoirist.
Now THAT was an asshole.
Side note: it's interesting to get a taste of what living authors must feel when their kids come home from 9th grade having discussed "the intent of the writer" and it's just so so off-base.
To be fair, the "stringing along" portion of this is max six weeks. But it's definitely something I thought about. Again, not that it's a good reason to break up or stay with someone. But feeling like "well, sorry LDG for taking these two years from you" was definitely a thing.
FWIW, SE is also a few years older than I am, though not quite as many.
Most younger people I know (background: I don't live in America, maybe it's different there) actually don't give a shit about being married or getting married anymore. It's a huge party to make grandma happy, to be the centre of attention and for everyone to applaud your awesome taste. That's it. A wedding may demonstrate already existing commitment but it's not usually a brand new vow. Commitment is something that gradually creeps up on you with time, like when you discuss "being exclusive", "making it official", become involved with each other's families, personal crises, make financial commitments or personal sacrifices.
People that I know who are/have been married at my age aren't any more serious about their relationships than I am about mine...in fact many of them are a good deal less serious (several marriages were a last ditch attempt to save a failing relationship, an acquiesing to a traditional family without true intentions of commitment, or a quick whirlwind romance that ended in disaster) than mine. Weddings don't really change anything, and most people I know don't see it as changing anything. So why do you treat questions from people in committed LTRs so differently from married people, or say your advice or perception of them would have changed if they had gone through with a wedding and written you afterwards?
Maybe it's different because the US treats marriage so differently than civil/common law partnerships, but I think your attitude towards marriage is becoming out of step!
You're right, it's different here. Persons in many cases need to be married for legal benefits.
And again, what you're saying here is irrelevant to Dans still useful advice not to run into something blindly.
If you think marriage is a sham, why would you suggest someone go headfirst towards it?
But good luck. Lack of empathy is a great quality in a partner for an asshole. What could go wrong?
Your particular way of reading is weird enough to warrant your conclusion. But it's immaterial.
Great people have asshat moments they get over, so long as they learn and don't alternatingly beat themselves up and/or dismiss the behavior outright.
Best of luck!
I'm referring to "oh, why is the world so broken". "Oh, but it's just so sad" etc
If they're continuing to not give a shit, volunteer, or vote for the people who would change the state of things that's just self-indulgence and false concern not sincere empathy.