@1 - I have to agree with you there — he should get to enjoy the difference between the smoothness of a woman and the guy's more masculine traits. Beyond that, I've never liked agendas in the bedroom and that's probably a good MO here: be prepared, yes, but let whimsy and desire guide the action.
That's certainly a refreshing change of pace. I do think Mr Savage is on to something, as the agenda for the threesome did seem rather daunting. I'll just add that LW might prepare herself for the possibility that the two Ms might find the first one or two MMFs sufficiently emboldening to put them in the mood for an F-less MM.
@ 2 - Yes, I think the point of the exercise is to experience something different.
And hopefully they don't stick to the program, it never makes for good sex.
@ 3 - She should also prepare for the opposite: what if they both freak out and don't want anything to do with each other?
But I hope for the LW that they all respect the golden rule of threesomes, that is, not to forget that there are three people involved, and that all three deserve attentiion.
Did I miss the part where her friend asked for an MMF threesome where it was mostly about the two guys? A straight guy who wants an FFM and an MMF probably wants to see you and the other guy together, not have you watch the two of them together. Call it more than a hunch, but check what "open to exploring" really means. Open to being in the same room and possibly accidentally crossing swords in the heat of the moment or open to going zero-to-anal with another dude?
I really would like for them to enjoy themselves and get the fullness of whatever they are seeking out of their first same-sex encounters.
While trying to do good, LW has made projected too much of her own needs onto her friends' fantasies. Instead, how about everyone hangout one evening with a bottle of wine, and just talk about their what their MFM fantasies are, with everyone listening to what the others have to say. Then when that evening comes to have that threesome, relax and do those things that everyone thought were hot, without following any particular script.
@7
2 things
1) A threesome where it isn't about male\male contact is usually called MFM, not MMF. I'm sure you could see the idea behind naming.
2) Even if they don't focus on MM contact, i'm sure they both had sex with a woman and therefore have a pretty solid idea how that goes, so what they do need figuring out is MM sex.
My 2 cents about the letter itself - MMF threesomes work better when at least one of the guys has some experience in guy sex. There are pitfalls, and to discover them all inone night isn't the best way.
For instance - i'd recomment having some cialis on hand. It's pretty clear the guy LW is talking about didn't have any kind of group sex before, so there's no telling how his body will react to that (new stimuli, guy attention, onlookers). And i've seen enough examples of perfectly willing partners who had unexpected failures in that department because of novelty and anxiety. Usually getting to know each other better solved the problem, but while they do, there's no shame in getting some boner-insurance. A lot of swingers use it, actually.
Centrist @7: Yes, it's here: "They are both open to exploring and experiencing being with a man for the first time and all that it will entail; kissing, mutual oral sex, and trying to both be tops and bottoms for anal. "
That's also why she's calling it an "MMF threesome," not an "MFM threesome." Your fantasies are not everyone's.
Totally agree with Dan's advice. It took my current two bi male partners a number of threesomes -- and, yes, some Viagra; well called, Yasunori -- to get to the butt-fucking bit.
Which, by all three of our accounts, was well worth the wait.
@14 great point, cialis / viagra / levitra are very helpful when in situations where a little social anxiety is a factor, like group sex / new partners. but try it before hand in case you have side effects.
Cialis gives me hours of violent heaving hiccups. and a boner. yah! YMMV.
This discussion of Viagra etc. is fascinating to me and exactly the opposite of what I (as a bi woman) thought.
See, I would think that boner pills would be useful in a LTR where you want to mix it up a bit so that PiV/PiA is on the table at least some of the time, or in porn where a boner is absolutely required all the time.
But in a threesome where you’re going to be hanging out with and exploring nice people? There's so much else going on that the presence or absence of boners would seem to me to be a fairly minor detail. Especially if the encounter is framed as being the first in a series.
Alison @18: My boys and I enjoyed a few Viagra-free threesomes that did involve boners, but not boners that were, by the time we got to the "shall we try anal?" stage, hard enough to accomplish anal. Once we'd determined that anal was definitely going on the evening's agenda, some Viagra was procured. A cock ring was also involved, which may well have done the trick on its own.
Totally agree with you if they do decide to take a "let's see what happens" approach rather than an "I must fuck a man in the ass before I die in a month's time" approach.
Yes. Yes: Stop and take a deep breath. Just breathe. Maybe smoke a joint or something, and chill the fuck out for a minute before going over the minute-by-minute script again. Take a breather, and just chill the fuck out buddy.
Then go ahead and have the threesome(s). But relax a little first.
@1: It honestly struck me that she is more concerned with making sure her MMF threesome goes the way she wants it than trying to have it be about these two guys actually enjoying themselves.
Which is why she is telling them basically to prepare their bodies in the way SHE wants it so they can do things SHE wants to see/do.
@ 21 - Maybe she fears she'll be left out so she's trying to gain some measure of control over the proceedings. But maybe she's just regurgitating what she "knows" about gay men, i.e. that shaving genitals is standard nowadays.
Ricardo @22: I think she just likes them that way. Or maybe one of the guys is straighter than he's admitting, and doesn't want to kiss a stubbly face. I don't hold high hopes for this threesome if that's the case.
@24 & @25 I definitely disagree—at least partly. I'm bi, and a lot of things turn me on about both sexes. A mouthful of pubes is not, however, one of those things. I love giving head to partners of both sexes, but I really hate picking pubes out of my teeth or—even worse—the back of my throat. For my bucket list threesomes, I prefer all parties to be sans pubic hair.
And one more suggestion for the LW: peg both guys a few times before they get together. That gets them accustomed to preparing for and receiving anal penetration. This will lessen the chance of penetration pain, which can be overwhelming if you're not ready for it and for how slowly initial penetration must go.
@ 26 - I don't know what your technique is, but I've given head to a few thousand guys and the pubes-between-the-teeth problem arises about one in 20 times, I would say. NBD.
This isn't the first time i'm explaining this to a woman, but yes, this is one of the situations people use boner pills. Why - because boner does not mean you are horny. I have mad boners when i'm sleep-deprived. I can't drive without one, for some reason, but i don't like car sex at all. And vice versa - no boner does not mean you are not horny\not willing. Anxiety gets the best of us, sadly. Especially the first times.
Chaucer @26: I share your preference -- I just thought it was odd that she was telling both guys to be clean-shaven, face and pubes. It's possible one of the guys shares our preference, but a lot less likely that both of them do.
Good suggestion @28, much better than them just doing themselves.
Can I add pegging-spitroast to their agenda? Hahaha.
It sounds like she'a staging the invasion of fucking Normandy. Evacuate? Lofl. These things take a FAR more relaxed approach to be mutually enjoyable. Don't make an action item list. Instead, have a drink or a doobie, relax, and just see where the night takes you. No way that you can guarantee what they'll feel like doing in the moment, and too much pressure is a boner killer!
I don't brush or combs my pubic hair like I do the hair on my head each morning. Therefore, hairs that are about to come out - 1 or 2 a day - don't get that final slight tug. Until things get vigorous in bed. So, pre-funtimes, I'll gently pull my fingers through and that will dislodge, without any pain, really without any sensation at all, other than the gentle tugging, 6-10 hairs. Hairs that I theorize would otherwise have dislodged during sex and ended up as floss or cause me to clear my throat.
That just always seem like good bed-ettique to me, but I have no idea if other non-luekemia patients practice it.
I just assumed her pubic hair could get dislodged too, David @ 36. Aren't you a considerate lover. And another non shaver. There's still a few around then, Ricardo.
I was just talking generally, Fan. Responding to Chaucer@26's apparent freak out about a few pubes in his teeth.
NT@ 40. Sorry for your loss. And LW, it is kind of you to help your friend achieve an experience he'd like to have.
Just relax a little with the over planning, then I'm sure whatever occurs with the three of you will be an authentic encounter, even if all the to do boxes aren't ticked.
A few thousand men, Ricardo?
That is impressive.
And so what if she's controlling? Maybe that's exactly what's been requested of her? An MM encounter orchestrated/directed by a F is a what many guys (especially with a little bit of a sub twist) want. De-fuzzing would fit with that too.
And hopefully they don't stick to the program, it never makes for good sex.
@ 3 - She should also prepare for the opposite: what if they both freak out and don't want anything to do with each other?
But I hope for the LW that they all respect the golden rule of threesomes, that is, not to forget that there are three people involved, and that all three deserve attentiion.
Oh, perhaps don't be so organizing, just let the moment do the talking.
Yes, you did.
While trying to do good, LW has made projected too much of her own needs onto her friends' fantasies. Instead, how about everyone hangout one evening with a bottle of wine, and just talk about their what their MFM fantasies are, with everyone listening to what the others have to say. Then when that evening comes to have that threesome, relax and do those things that everyone thought were hot, without following any particular script.
2 things
1) A threesome where it isn't about male\male contact is usually called MFM, not MMF. I'm sure you could see the idea behind naming.
2) Even if they don't focus on MM contact, i'm sure they both had sex with a woman and therefore have a pretty solid idea how that goes, so what they do need figuring out is MM sex.
My 2 cents about the letter itself - MMF threesomes work better when at least one of the guys has some experience in guy sex. There are pitfalls, and to discover them all inone night isn't the best way.
For instance - i'd recomment having some cialis on hand. It's pretty clear the guy LW is talking about didn't have any kind of group sex before, so there's no telling how his body will react to that (new stimuli, guy attention, onlookers). And i've seen enough examples of perfectly willing partners who had unexpected failures in that department because of novelty and anxiety. Usually getting to know each other better solved the problem, but while they do, there's no shame in getting some boner-insurance. A lot of swingers use it, actually.
"They are both open to exploring and experiencing being with a man for the first time and all that it will entail; kissing, mutual oral sex, and trying to both be tops and bottoms for anal. "
That's also why she's calling it an "MMF threesome," not an "MFM threesome." Your fantasies are not everyone's.
Which, by all three of our accounts, was well worth the wait.
Cialis gives me hours of violent heaving hiccups. and a boner. yah! YMMV.
See, I would think that boner pills would be useful in a LTR where you want to mix it up a bit so that PiV/PiA is on the table at least some of the time, or in porn where a boner is absolutely required all the time.
But in a threesome where you’re going to be hanging out with and exploring nice people? There's so much else going on that the presence or absence of boners would seem to me to be a fairly minor detail. Especially if the encounter is framed as being the first in a series.
Totally agree with you if they do decide to take a "let's see what happens" approach rather than an "I must fuck a man in the ass before I die in a month's time" approach.
Yes. Yes: Stop and take a deep breath. Just breathe. Maybe smoke a joint or something, and chill the fuck out for a minute before going over the minute-by-minute script again. Take a breather, and just chill the fuck out buddy.
Then go ahead and have the threesome(s). But relax a little first.
Which is why she is telling them basically to prepare their bodies in the way SHE wants it so they can do things SHE wants to see/do.
Crikey. Slow your roll, lady.
This isn't the first time i'm explaining this to a woman, but yes, this is one of the situations people use boner pills. Why - because boner does not mean you are horny. I have mad boners when i'm sleep-deprived. I can't drive without one, for some reason, but i don't like car sex at all. And vice versa - no boner does not mean you are not horny\not willing. Anxiety gets the best of us, sadly. Especially the first times.
Good suggestion @28, much better than them just doing themselves.
Can I add pegging-spitroast to their agenda? Hahaha.
I don't brush or combs my pubic hair like I do the hair on my head each morning. Therefore, hairs that are about to come out - 1 or 2 a day - don't get that final slight tug. Until things get vigorous in bed. So, pre-funtimes, I'll gently pull my fingers through and that will dislodge, without any pain, really without any sensation at all, other than the gentle tugging, 6-10 hairs. Hairs that I theorize would otherwise have dislodged during sex and ended up as floss or cause me to clear my throat.
That just always seem like good bed-ettique to me, but I have no idea if other non-luekemia patients practice it.
I'm not that limber.
I was just talking generally, Fan. Responding to Chaucer@26's apparent freak out about a few pubes in his teeth.
Just relax a little with the over planning, then I'm sure whatever occurs with the three of you will be an authentic encounter, even if all the to do boxes aren't ticked.
A few thousand men, Ricardo?
That is impressive.
The guys sound like Ken dolls for her to manipulate and move around for her enjoyment, never mind theirs!