Comments

1
I have not used or have interest in using pot or meth recreationally, but here's an article about meth I read last week that I found illuminating. It falls in line more with LW2 than with Dan.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/adderall…
2
Abusing a substance doesn't necessarily have to rise to the level of a crippling addiction. Use can be abuse just because it fucks up your health, makes you do things you regret, or some other bad side effect.
3
I don't get the impression that everyone has the same idea of what constitutes an acceptable risk. "Only a 5% chance of getting addicted" seems to mean very different things to different people--for some people that seems negligible, for other people appallingly high.
4
Meth is dangerous. Also: stars twinkle in the night sky and planets do not. Also: coffee is always a shade of brown and is usually hot. Also, thunder always follows lightning. Also...
5
Geez. LW2 is a total dick.
6
I used to do small amounts of meth but I never got into doing a bunch of it. Then one time I was talking to my therapist and we found out I'm super ADHD and I was probably self medicating with the meth. I never believed in ADHD before that, but now I get a prescription to treat that and I haven't touched meth since.
7
Sounds to me like LW2 is unnecessarily antagonistic / aggressive. Maybe it's all the meth they're on?
8
Man, it's not every day that we hear from the Pro-Meth Lobby. Be careful Dan, that bunch literally has more hours in the day to get things done.
9
Man, it's not every day that we hear from the Pro-Meth Lobby. Careful Dan, that bunch literary has more hours in the day to go after you.
On a serious note though- even using LW2's figures, if 5% of the 1.2M people that have used in the last year become addicts, that's 60,000 new addicts a year.
10
My question is this: what percentage of Adderall users become addicted to it?
11
So here's the pattern of meth abuse I've observed over the years:

It usually takes a really long time for things to build up to a catastrophic level (unemployable, losing teeth, criminal problems). Most meth users will quite successfully manage to hold things together for some time.

The problem is, the addictive part kicks in long, long before the bad effects become visible. Which means that by the time you (or, more likely, the people around you) notice you have a problem, you're already deeply hooked.

In my own case, with 20/20 hindsight, I was already having trouble "managing" my use years and years before I was suffering consequences directly attributable to my drug use. Things like doing more than I'd planned, going on longer runs than I'd planned, using more often than I'd planned. By the time major consequences did start showing up, it was already way, way too late to stop without a serious intervention that required sustained, overwhelming effort.

All of this is really endorsing Dan's "there is no using, only abusing" stance. And reading PAY's rant against just confirms that in my mind: it sounds like exactly the same sort of well-researched, self-serving bullshit I could spin out ad infinitum to justify my continuing habit, right down to the nasty tone directed towards anyone who might have suggested that my little recreational escape could be a problem.

So for all of you friends and families of addicts out there, this is something to watch out for. If you confront someone who's using meth in a supportive and concerned way and you get this kind of response, it's a major fucking red flag.

To put it another way, if PAY's use of meth isn't such a big deal, then it shouldn't be a big deal for PAY not to use meth.

But since not using meth is apparently a big enough deal to trigger a response like this, I'd suggest PAY is looking at a problem that he or she really does not want to see.
12
@7 wins the thread.
13
@7/8: looooolll.
14
I mean, I agree that there are users able to use meth and heroin once and never again, but the more they use it, the less they're able to stop, so it's something completely shitty to suggest isn't a problem. The snark and "WELL, ACTUALLY" smug correction was entirely misplaced.
15
as a user of a legal cousin of meth, lisdexamfetamine, under the close watch of a psychiatrist, I am ambiguous. I am not addicted to it, have no urge to up my dose, and don't take it on weekends. However, in discussions with several doctors, the amount of people who steal and abuse the *()(*U(* out of the legal forms of meth makes me question PAY quite a bit. So I don't know about PAY's numbers re: addiction. I wonder if PAY is cherry picking data a bit. Not that the FDA or CDC is the most reliable about assessing risks from drugs (see Marijuana), but the amphetamine drugs are categorized as the most addictive and abused prescription drugs right next to opiods.

PAY is seriously raging, so LOL, 7/8 win the interwebz on that. I never really saw the pot progressives as that down right nasty. But then - meth.
16
@11. Thoughtful post.

I wouldn't be happy, though, to be taken off of lisdexamfetamine. My sister also just started - after a long history of other medications - and has also had a very positive response.
17
DarkHorse @15: "I never really saw the pot progressives as that down right nasty."

Nope. It's more like "Duuuude, weed is goooood, don't harsh my mellow, man." :)
18
@17. Bingo.
19
@11 "The problem is, the addictive part kicks in long, long before the bad effects become visible."

That makes a lot of sense. I really hadn't thought about it that way.
20
@11 wins the thread. IME, people come out swinging when they're reeeeally trying to avoid admitting something to themselves. Like they're facing an existential threat rather than an academic discussion.
21
@4 Rhone; nice post.
22
LW1; thank you for your honesty.
I've mentioned your comments about predatory men, on the weekly thread.
23
"responsible drug users" ... ahh yes, that wonderful illusion that it is you that is in control of your substance consumption, PAY.

In the future, if you are lucky, you will look back to realise just how naive you were as you wasted so much of you health and youth on bombarding your body and mind with self-medication rather than developing the introspection to understand why you felt the need to take it.

Whatever the substance: pot, booze, tobacco, harder stuff; whether we take it once a month or once an hour, it is consumed for a reason. Regardless of how dangerous the habit may be - a couple of beers &/or a vape in the evening being at the better end of the spectrum - the fact that you feel the need to defend it speaks volumes to the fact that you depend on it.

x
24
I will gladly spend more than 10 minutes and use more resources than Google to corroborate or refute PAY's 5% number. I think there's some fundamental misunderstanding of the statistics here. I'm a physician and an epidemiologist, but admittedly not a psychiatrist or a substance abuse counselor. But, I'm quite sure that everything I've ever heard is significantly different than 5% of ever users developing clinically important addiction. I will try to repost when I find more information (in case many people to actually read the comments section).
25
Hell hath no fury like an addict who is confronted with the reality of their addiction.
26
Is anyone else pretty sure that 'Pissed at You' was on meth when he wrote that letter?
27
My (much younger) brother in law apparently started up meth usage around sixteen.
He's almost 22 now, and currently sitting in jail for repeatedly beating up his mother because she stopped giving him money. In those SIX YEARS he went from the sweet light of someone I loved to a scarred and literally crazed monster. I hope he never gets out, because he has threatened to kill his mother, my husband, and our daughter.
It isn't "just meth".
28
PAY sounds like a defensive addict.
29
WOW.. I am so appalled by LW2's comment.. He does not have one clue to the truth, and I sincerely hope that he would shut the fuck up about the pure ignorance and bullshit he is spreading... Meth kills, destroys family's, screws up careers, wrecks people's relationships, ruins your health and inflicts alot of damage to your psyche.. Man, we are talking some bad karma.. Not to mention messing with one's brain..! Holy moly...!!! We're talking nuts...!! I know one person who experimented with meth and ended up having to take anti anxiety medication for a long long time.. SO folks - heed the warnings.. Dan is right.. Meth is for idiots and any use is ABUSE....!!!!!!!!!
30
@24: I read the comments, and would be interested if you took the time to research and post about how meth addiction/use/abuse works.
31
drjones @24,

Yes please!
32
This issue can be seen as a question about whether it's abusive (if self destructive behavior counts) to invite a monkey onto one's back without knowing how hard it will be to get it to leave. I have no interest in finding out what I have put at risk should the time ever come to ask that particular monkey to let go, so for me, with meth use, abstinence is the answer.
33
13 years clean from a 15 year meth habit I feel qualifies me to weigh in on the topic.
Meth addiction doesn't happen overnight. For me it took maybe 6 months of regular use working and staying up in the weekends. That being said.. once you lose the job, the house, the family, your teeth, the dignity, the self respect, the mental health, the health (I'm suffering lifelong/ life-shortening consequences), you are not in a position to get these things back easily. Friends and family can only take so many lies and disappointments before they cannot support you any longer (emotionally or otherwise). Without an income, without a home, without your friends and family.. it's even harder to get and STAY clean. However finding and using (err abusing) meth is a relatively easy way to make the self made unbearable circumstances-bearable.
34
I just found out tonight my bisexual boyfriend was given meth last night at the bath house. He says it was the first time. I was furious because it broke the rules we had set: I agreed to let him get his fill of cock in his ass/mouth at the bath house every few weeks if he takes prep, always always always uses condoms, and no drugs other than poppers. He was shocked at my reaction when I was yelling at him about his stupidity, and said he "didn't remember" the drug part of our agreement. He is sweet, young and very naive. But now I really don't trust his judgement. A slippery slope in terms of safe sex and potential addiction, doncha think? And risk to me... Any advice is appreciated.

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