Seattle's Anti-Prop 8 March This Saturday

Comments

1
So he isn't a Mormon?
2
Exactly. Mormons are pretty black/white about their theology. The church will tell you every time that if you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, you don't believe scripture and therefore are -=NOT=- a Mormon. PERIOD. "If you're not with us, you're against us." Lame.
3
You're saying noon at Volunteer Park. Schmader and the website say 10:30 at City Council. The overflow site says both, but not in conjunction with each other. This could get confusing.
4
You can walk, it's not very far, Garth.
5
What Powell has said is the plan from the two organizing groups working together -not confusing at all - one event, one starting point, one ending point. Be there, Sat. Good signs are important. Dress warm, suit and tie not required. Nice to see 5,000/10,000 people. I think info sites will soon be updated. Permits are processing from the city, will be approved on Wed. Eric
6
I'm so excited for this that I can't sit still!
7
I'm so excited for this that I can't sit still!
8
I'm so excited for this that I can't sit still!
9
I wrote my resignation from the LDS church last week and I am filing a 503C tax exemption complaint. Fuck them and their hater politics. They need to focus on keeping LDS marriages intact and stop worrying about gays and lesbians getting married.
10
There is a great deal of misinformation out there leading many to conclude that Mormons have some sort of vendetta against gays. Fortunately, this is not the case. Even church leaders have officially stated that they have no opposition for domestic partnerships which will afford gays the rights they deserve. I respect the right of gay marriage supporters to peacefully protest, but they should do so with an accurate understanding of the LDS church's position on gay rights.
11
yes the times are confusing! the websites say start at 10:30 on the west coast, 1:30 east coast.
12
"for what I have been born with" Does anyone find that phrasing a bit odd in context? Whenever I hear someone talk about something they're "born with", it's always something bad, like a heart defect or partial deafness.
13
no do overs Kyler....sorry.
14
I think I've got to agree with the Mormons a little bit. They were the main movers behind getting Prop H8 (& 102) passed BUT they are not the only religious institution who backed this. All religious wing-nuts that engage in legislating theology deserve to be boycotted, picketed, and stripped of their tax-exempt status. What about them? Where is the outrage about them? Has anyone started a Baptists-Stole-Our-Rights website for the Arkansas amendment? Has anyone gone after the Catholics (and the Knights of Columbus)? No? All the outrage seems to be focused on the Mormons, who're relative lightweights compared to Anglicans and Catholics, "main stream" Christo-fascists.
15
I am also confused. I want to participate but there needs to be a coherent plan. Where do we start? When? What route do we march? When? Before or after what? I hear the 10:30 thing because of time zones but why is marching exactly at the same time so important? Why do East Coast queers get to sleep in and do brunch then march at 1:30 and not us?
16
I've only been in a Mormon church a few times in the past dozen or so years since I admitted to blowjobs and smoking weed, but I definitely remember them being very careful to maintain a safe distance from politics. It was always a "decide for yourself based on what you believe" type thing. For the First Presidency to put out an official position on a bill targeting people who couldn't even be members of their church is amazing.
17
It seems like a million years ago but I recall that the LDS church fought hard against the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) back in the late 70s.
18
Kyler is one brave young man. Bravo to you!
19
My eyes and ears love you too, Kyler!
20
Wow all this zeal and energy AFTER THE FACT of Prop 8. I just hope you all come to the phone banks, door belling efforts, letter writing efforts and all the other Must do things when we face the Radical Religious Extremists push to deny civil equality to the GLBT Citizens of Washington. Consider this your practice and warm up moves for the serious work coming down the pipe line.
21
I keep hearing from LDS, "Why us? Lots of people supported Prop. 8." I don't think many would dispute this. Something can have multiple causes. I'm not forgiving Catholic organizations like Knights of Columbus, or bigoted whites, blacks, hispanics, or anyone else who supported Prop. 8. We simply need to pick our battles, and focus on who did the most harm. We can address the various bigots, but I want to start first by addressing the biggest bigots. That's you, Mormons. When Olson says LDS doesn't condone bigotry, he's equivocating on "bigotry" to mean something other than discrimination for sexual-orientation. No get out of jail card on that one, bigot. "It gets back to God's intent for his children." Stop hiding behind your religion. We see what you did there. I have to confess, protesting next to someone who shares the "Mormon Church’s stance on abstinence, dating, and the clothes you wear" doesn't sit well with me. However again--biggest targets. Powell is talking about doing exactly what I require from Mormons to redeem themselves--divorcing themselves from the bigoted Church. No more funding, no more supporting the name (assuming he carries through with his words). He and I obviously have a lot of difference, but I can overlook that for the moment, I think.
22
California voted. Not the Mormon church. Blame it on democracy if you want, but protesting against another belief system that is opposed to yours is hypocritical.
23
I hate sequestering ourselves off in the park and then westlake park... let take this downtown, where all can see...
24
It's Westlake Center which is downtown
25
@22: Cool, I'm gonna spend my fake $billions$ to pay for misleading TV commercials and flyers and church organization to pass a constitutional amendment to get Logan sent to Guantanamo Bay. Blame democracy amirite?
26
Yay! I'll be there. And noon is a much more civilized hour than 8:00am. I should even be fully awake by then.
27
Nice choice for an LDS poster child. The Mormon Church’s stance on abstinence, dating, and the clothes you wear resonate with my personal morals,” says Powell. BWAAAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right. Wolves who wear fleece are still wolves.
28
Why are gay Mormons always so damn cute?
29
Has Jamie Pedersen done ANYTHING for the 43rd the past two years?
30
Liar “The Mormon Church’s stance on abstinence, dating, and the clothes you wear resonate with my personal morals,” says Powell. http://www.geneffects.com/blog/2004/09/so-you-want-to-be-male-nude-model.html
31
Well...Kyler didn't say anything about the his stance on the clothes you *don't* wear. :P
32
@10, if the Mormons have so little problem with gay rights/civil unions, why did they invest so much money in a law designed to deny gay people the civil union rights? Because of the word marriage? If that is the case, then the LDS are completely, totally, and horribly stupid. Since they're rich as all get out, I'm going to assume it has a lot more to do with them wanting to deny gay people equal rights.
33
Rally Times in Seattle:

Festivities start at 10:30am
WITH THE RALLY AND KEYNOTE SPEAKERS AT 12:00 PM, NOON, at Volunteer Park.

A March to Westlake will commence directly after rally, approx 1pm.

34
mormon views on clothing resonate with him? Last i checked mormons weren't too keen on wanting to have your photo taken nude and put up for the public. He's been photographed (and very well i might add) by the same photographer who has pictures of myself as well. I mean to each his own....but call it like it is.
35
My feet work quite well, Will. Two separate protests don't work quite as well as one big one, though.
36
@ 36) Organizers canceled the event at city hall to combine their efforts with this event. Hurrah!
37
Dom, sitting down with him for 20 minutes, you could have written down everything he said to strengthen your position. Gotta be Sun Tzu in these battles, man.
38
While I consider the protests outside of the LDS centers completely appropriate (as is an investigation on their tax-exempt status), at this point I think it's more important to move forward. I'll be marching on Saturday FOR marriage equality, not against the LDS or Granted, if anyone wants to start organizing sit ins on the lawn of every married couple in Arkansas that voted to strip adoption/foster rights from perfectly good families...I'm all about it. We'll agree to leave when every one of the thousands of children in the AK foster system (and the nearly 3000 in Utah's) is adopted by those loving, loving married couples.
39
Jamie Pederson was listed in Advocate Magazine a couple of months ago as a potential contender for 1st openly gay President of the United States in 20 years or so. Go Girl!
40
Unofficial Slogan: "Oh, MARRY!" (look it up, young-uns)
41
@31 @35 Isn't it possible that his views changed exactly because of that? Your personal morals are built as much or more on the mistakes you make as on your correct choices. Most people have done things they are not proud of (unfortunately especially young gay men), lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes. That's how you grow. I don't know the situation, but do either of you really know all of it either? So why judge, why exclude the possibility of someone's morals evolving?
42
Request for a story, blog entry, something... How many times have civil rights for other minority groups actually been put to a popular vote? WHY are the civil rights for this minority group being put to a popular vote???? If the constitution says that all are created equal, and our interpretation of that is to give all individuals equal protection under the law, WHY is this even a QUESTION? And how can I translate that whole idea into a succinct and clear protest sign?
43
I viewed the pics before the link and profile came down and wow are they amazing. Very well done, very simple and classy and he has nothing to be ashamed of. I don't think they discredit anything that was said in this post about him. Now let's move on.
44
"Before 1967, my interracial marriage would have been outlawed. For how much longer will same-sex marriages be outlawed?"
45
Yes the Mormon Church excommunicated several feminists.
46
@44, does he have an enormous whozeewhatsit?
47
@43: my two proposed banners: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyestablishment/3020613095/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyestablishment/3021443578/
48
or this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyestablishment/3020639833/
49
With five or six Mormon boys like him, God could make me a very happy Elder. :)
50
I'm glad they got rid of the city hall protest. It seemed silly to have a thing on Saturday when the mayor and council wouldn't even be there, and Westlake Center seems much more visible for political activities than Pioneer Square.
51
Westlake Center Park is a free speech zone by design ... well known ... tons of resources like food, bathrooms, etc near ... and ... people. There are masses of traffic and people in that area on Sat. Mucho bus service as well. Love taking Volunteer park again for Queer stuff. Very good plan all in all. Saw a sign I like from NY -"this is not a parade" - talk it up to friends and family.
52
More posters for this weekend: 'Separate Church and State' means 'Separate your Religious Values from my Civil Rights' All families are afforded equal protection under the US Constitution. 1967 - Protection for Interracial Couples 2008? - Protection for Same-Sex Couples
53
It seems like everyone who writes for the Stranger is gay, or Jewish, or a gay Jew.
54
It seems like everyone who writes for the Stranger is gay, or Jewish, or a gay Jew.
55
Anybody who thinks the LDS Church isn't against gay rights has a serious issue. The LDS Church actively teaches that parents with gay kids should not allow their gay children's partners into their homes (see their own press releases). Documents recently released show that they even oppose the right of gay couples to visit one another in the hospital, or inherit property. So, when they say they're not anti-gay, they're lying. And, in LDS mythology, it's okay to lie, as long as you lie for the Lord.
56
It's abhorent to me, a gay man raised in the LDS church, that the church has done this. My problem with the church on this issue is less that they spported it, and more that they supported it in opposition of their own doctrine. The Doctrine & Covenants - one of the mains books of scripture for the church - states "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others…" (D&C 134:4) Their very own Book of Mormon states "it is strictly contrary to the commandments of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds." (Alma 30:7) THAT is why I have a problem with the LDS Church on this issue. I expect biggotry, sexism, racism, and worse from the Catholic church, but Mormons - who at one point in history were tarred and feathered for their own differences - should know and act better.
57
I've long believed that the Stranger is home to many armchair activists and reading this blog, I see my beliefs reinforced. When was the last time you saw a 20-something gay man organize a political action? Quit acting like lazy consumers, criticizing the way others are fighting for your rights, and ask how you can help. If you're one of the middle class white gay folks who don't want to rock the boat or who think change comes from writing a check to a non-profit or a politician, stay here on the Slog. If you think we are the change we've been waiting for, let's work together.
58
Gay, Straight, Black, White: Marriage is a Civil Rights. Keep it in the realm of politics. We're not going to convince rabid religious zealots to change their beliefs, but we can restrict their ability to force their beliefs on the rest of us. Did you know that in 1961 when Obama was born, his parents marriage would have been illegal in 16 US states? This is a civil rights issue and we should argue it as such. Gay rights pioneer Frank Kameny: “We cannot ask for our rights from a position of inferiority, or from a position, shall I say, as less than WHOLE human beings… I do not see the NAACP and CORE worrying about which chromosome and gene produced a black skin, or about the possibility of bleaching the Negro. I do not see any great interest on the part of the B’nai B’rith Anti-Defamation League in the possibility of solving problems of anti-semitism by converting Jews to Christians. . . We are interested in obtaining rights for our respective minorities AS Negroes, AS Jews, and AS HOMOSEXUALS. Why we are Negroes, Jews, or Homosexuals is totally irrelevant, and whether we can be changed to Whites, Christians, or heterosexuals is equally irrelevant.”
59
They should just take away Straight peoples rights when they marry. Since it's such a religious thing. Keep marriage religious that's fine. But you get no benefits at all from it. And since you want to "protect" the sanctity of marriage, that's fine too. Divorce should not be legal either.

Change it so under "Law" you'd have to have civil unions that would legally recognize the partnership. And you'd be able to get all the benefits that anyone should be allowed to have between two consenting adults. Problem fixed.
60
They should just take away Straight peoples rights when they marry. Since it's such a religious thing. Keep marriage religious that's fine. But you get no benefits at all from it. And since you want to "protect" the sanctity of marriage, that's fine too. Divorce should not be legal either.

Change it so under "Law" you'd have to have civil unions that would legally recognize the partnership. And you'd be able to get all the benefits that anyone should be allowed to have between two consenting adults. Problem fixed.
61
I will be there. It's not fair Love is Love regardless
62
Some will cry apologist, but after reading this vitriol, i can't help but share a few thoughts:

1. I have spoken with many mormons here in seattle. not one was ever asked to contribute to CA's efforts, nor was any letter ever read in their meetings.

2. the church (check its own website and historical record) has never opposed same-sex domestic parternship rights. The church leader that led efforts in CA came out and himself said that the church did not oppose civil unions, that their issue is with defining "marriage," not state-sanctioned civil unions.

3. there are many, many gay mormons. yes, even openly-gay mormons. one is not ex-communicated for being gay. one can be excommunicated for having sex outside of marriage, though excommunications in the faith are not nearly as common as everyone would like to think.

4. why get all riled up at the local seattle church, when it was church members in CA who largely backed this? church money was not used, church funds were not transferred from the WA church to the CA church. individual church members wrote the checks, not the church.

5. finally, watch olbermann's commentary. brilliant. we should all be so well spoken.

6. let's follow MLK's example and love and persuade gently and deliberately, not irrationally and in a mean-spirited way. many of us, i fear, are exhibiting some of the same bigoted nature that we're decrying in our religious friends and fellow-men and fellow-women.
63
As someone who spent the first 28 yrs of their life in Alabama, including 18yrs in Tuskegee, AL; 10 yrs in Montgomery, AL and having stood on the Edmund Pettis Bridge in Selma several times ... the prop 8 vote makes me sick. Think about it ... does anyone really believe that Barack Obama would have even been a pres. candidate or even a U.S. Senator if southerners in the 60s had the option to vote on civil rights?

Basically we are saying ... civil rights are for sale. Don't for Mormons ... if your religion was put to a vote in the South, I guarantee you that you would be marginalized or banned. Why do you think Huckabee kicked Romney's a*s in the South.

It's time to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH and while doing so, let's all remember we go protest, that we are doing so for something bigger than ourselves and our actions are perceived according.

Organize. Mobilize. Creat Change. Let's go . . .
64
ACTUALLY, if you pay attention to mormon teachings, they believe that being gay is a sin, but they also know their scripture says not to harm or harass or judge anyone who IS something, just because it is against the mormon teachings, because that makes you judging, and thats anti-jesus or something.

*Shrug*
65
Powell, I doubt you will read this but I must commend your courage. To not just announce your homosexuality as a Mormon, but to also start a rally if it is or isn't partially or fully against the wishes of your religion I believe is tremendously brave. I will be at your rally on Saturday and I thank you for helping Seattlites join in the fight for freedom.
66
I am an active Temple worthy Mormon. I know that is going to send a lot of you firing off at me but I feel the need to educate some of you on what we really believe in; what I believe in.

If you're going to quote the scriptures then please quote all of it. D&C 134:4 is referring to the First Amendment, the government and people's right to practice their religion. Last time I checked being gay isn't a religion.

The full scripture says, " We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms of public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul."

Alma 30:7 again is referring to the persons right to practice religion, that you should follow the Lord but you have the agency to choose who you will serve. It says "Now there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds." And continuing onto verse 8 it says, "For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve."

We do NOT believe that having same-gender attraction in a sin. Acting on those feelings is where the sin comes into play. Here is a quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Oaks, "The distinction between feelings or inclinations on the one hand, and behavior on the other hand, is very clear. It’s no sin to have inclinations that if yielded to would produce behavior that would be a transgression. The sin is in yielding to temptation. Temptation is not unique. Even the Savior was tempted."

We made covenants with the Lord to stand up and defend His plan and teachings. That is why the First Presidency came out and reaffirmed the churches stance on gay marriage. This was NOT a new thing. A letter was read to all the members in California. It is not the first time the Church has read such letters and they don't have to. Often times moral issues come up during our lessons on Sundays. And our lessons are taught by members who are asked to teach. Anyone can be asked to teach or speak in our Sacrament services. Even our youth (ages 12-18) give 5 minute talks each week. We do NOT have any paid clergy.

When you are baptized and go through the Temple you make covenants; one of which is giving our time, talents and means to protect and share the gospel. In 1995 the First Presidency made a proclamation to the world. It is called, "The Family A Proclamation to the World" In it the church publically states to the world what the Lord’s plan is for the family unit. It states,
" The Family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan." This is a Celestial law; not something we made up.

Please read it in it’s entirety.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnext…

I don't mind all the protests. Everyone has a right to stand up for what they believe in but the out range and violence directed at us and the vandalism at the Lord's house and our sacred places of worship is uncalled for and illegal. If you or any other group or religion was experiencing this it would be called a hate crime.

The major group that passed Prop 8 were minorities; not Mormons. Yes our members supported it but we were not the only religious group who did. NO money was giving by the church itself. Donations were PRIVATE donations and yes some of those people were Mormon. But that is not any different then those who support gay rights and ask people to donate money. Those groups are also a not for profit group.

Here are two statements given by a Catholic Bishops:

http://newsroom.lds.org/Static%20Files/N…

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/…

I only ask that if you're going to protest and express yourself on blogs that you take the time to find out the truth about what a religion believes before you attack it. I know that most of you do not agree with our beliefs and that's okay. If you want to know what we believe we have two great websites. You can look up any thing you want to know.

www.lds.org and www.mormon.org

If you want to know what the church's official stance is on same-gender attraction then go to the Newsroom part of the website. There you will find the churches official stance on all moral issues. Here is the link for the same gender attraction.

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/…

I know we will not agree but maybe we could at least understand each other a little better and be civil towards each other. You are a child of God, I am a child of God. We are all His children. He loves all of us and despite what you think so does The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.



67
I would like to add that I’m a convert to the church and the only member in my family. I have gay friends, gay co-workers but most importantly my uncle whom I love dearly and see on a weekly basis is bi-sexual. So, I’m not stating these things as someone who doesn’t have any idea of the gay lifestyle. You love the person not the act.

May God bless all of you.
68
Wow, That took guts! So why is it that if blacks and hispanics were the majority group to vote for this that you all aren't protesting them? Oh ya cause its ok to protest against a Christian religion and its called Bigotry if you do it to a black or hispanic person..
69
You can be sure that I along with my children and grandchildren will be marching with you tomarrow. Kate Grutz
70
My partner and I should have just as much right to be married as my ex-husband and I did. She is a much better partner than he was husband!
71
Changing the definition of marriage would affect the entire foundation of many religions because of the subsequent civil litigation that would ensue. In order to continue being able to practice their beliefs, it is important to keep that same definition of marriage. There are civil unions available that give the same legal rights, so leaving the standard definition of marriage in place does not inhibit those who want the recognition of a civil union from the government. Marriage is a sacred practice, so having a religion defend it should not be any surprise. http://StandardWorks.com