Snow Job

Comments

1
Screw the Mormons. Their "religion" is just an old cult. They need to feel the hurt of shunning.
2
Screw the Mormons. Their "religion" is just an old cult. Of course that describes all religions. Anyways, the Mormons need to feel the burn of shunning.
3
Also, fuck Utah slopes anyway. There's a half-dozen better places within the same distance with better terrain, and you won't have to worry about where to get a good drink, either.
4
Wah wah wah. Poor bigoted hateful Utah. Great, some people there *aren't* Mormons. Whoopee! But the state's run by this polygamist cult started by a man who "read" it out of a hat!

And they're telling OTHERS how to live their lives? Keep the hate in Utah.

I love how Equality Utah was, like, oh, great, so the Mormons have stated that they support gay couples having basic rights like hospital visitation and stuff. And then the Mormons came out and said, oh no, we don't necessarily support that for gays in Utah, only for gays in California. Jesus, Joseph and Mary in magic underpants!
5
Yes Dan, come to BC, fuck the Mormons, here you can be officially married at least while on vacation.
6
What I don't understand is why all these apparently gay-friendly Utahns are getting on YOUR case about this. Why aren't they directing their anger at the Mormon church for causing the problem? If Utah businesses suffer financially, it's because of the church's actions, and it's the church--not Dan Savage--who should have to answer for it.
7
We have the absolute right to decide when and where to spend our money based on any damn criteria we want. If they want to do the same, they are more than welcome to stop buying clothes, eating out, going to the movies, or any other activity that one would find enjoyable really, because we are behind them.

Let me know how that works out for you, mormons. Oh, and let me know when you're ready to apologize. I imagine you'll be quite broke by then.
8
You don't really need a ban to know Canada is better. lol
9
Fuck the Mormons and Fuck Utah snow. Dan, I am sure you're talking Whistler. You won't be disappointed. Best Resort ever.
10
Anyone find it ironic that the anti-8 party at Neumo's was sponsored by Oakley, which is owned by a Mormon?
11
#6, your right.
12
Wouldn't it be awesome if Seattle could organize a film festival during the same time as Sundance? It would offer people who want to boycott Mormons and Utah a chance to still show their films and celebrate. Can someone get on that please?
13
Did anyone else catch the anti-Dan sentiment at the rally in Volunteer Park Saturday? One speaker went on about how we should not protest a whole state for a while.
14
If people in Utah have a problem with homos boycotting Utah and things Utah, then they should take it up with the Mormons. Not us.
15
While Utah may be Mormon central, it turns out LDS is the second most populous church in... (drum roll)... California.

HMMM
16
Is there a central list of Mormon-owned businesses somewhere? So I can make sure I'm not accidently giving them $$?
17
@ mackro mackro,


So? California might have the second largest population of Morons in the country, but they only make up 4% of the total population of California.
18
I knew Sean Means about a decade ago, and he is the nicest guy--it's rough to see him savaged for trying to explain that Utah isn't all Mormans and intolerance for other people (after spending 100 years having your own religion intoleranced again).
19
@17:

4% of 36.5 million is almost 1.5 million

60% of Utah - Mormon - which is a total of 2.5 million = 1.5 million

Basically, California has just as many Mormons as Utah does.
20
LOL. I'm guessing Snowbird, Park City and Alta and all the rest are gonna survive.

Gonna take out Sundance with some cobbled together little Seattle festival, because why? oh that's right you hate everything Utah including that well known right wing extremist, Robert Redford.

Seriously, you folks hate mormons worse than they even hate you. Man, talk about fucking up your own karma.
21
Is there some fund we can donate to get alchohol to the homeless in Utah? I think lots of drunk homeless people would really piss off the Mormons.
22
I don't recall seeing Sean at the Anti-H8 rally on Saturday in Salt Lake City, come to think on it. I mean, if he and the missus abhor Prop H8, why didn't they show up to protest?
23
@18, I'm sure Sean Means is a very nice person--he sounds fair-minded and decent--but he's not the real victim here.

Let's keep things in perspective.
24
Your family is going to love BC boarding - Whistler is SO beautiful! Have a wonderful time!
25
I'm kinda surprised you guys hadn't been to Whistler already, just because it's just 4.5 hours away by car or train+Greyhound.
26
My ex-father inlaw was shunned by the Mormon bankers and business owners in his town in Southern Idaho. Because of this he went bankrupt, lost everything, and had to move to Washington. In the small towns the Mormon chamber of commerce has no problem ruining a gentile (non-mormon). All people in Utah may not be mormons but all of the established businesses either are Mormon or kiss Mormon ass.
27
The most shocking thing in that article is the balding, gray-haired writer claims that he and Dan were born two days apart. Which means the writer looks very old for, what is it, 34?

28
Knock yerself out on the boycott but the ridiculing of Mormom beliefs makes me a little queasy. Necessary?
29
The reason why you boycott Utah is not just to put pressure on the headquarters of the Mormon Church but also on all the people in Utah who silently put up with the Mormons and their bigotry.

If I were living in Utah, I would *welcome* the boycott, myself. I really, truly would. People in Utah who have problems with how the Mormons do things and what their ideology is need to flex a little muscle not at Dan Savage but at the Mormons, and these allegedly nonbigotted people should see the boycott as a welcome tool to help undermine the Mormons.

The Mormons have a lot of money; they need to be hit in the pocket book. Utah is their main pocket book.
30
@28: Yes, the ridiculing of religious beliefs is absolutely necessary. It helps point out that they have no right to point fingers at how other people live.

Oh, and one other thing: There's no difference between a religion and a cult. They are one and the same. Work against their influence.
31
I'll stop ridiculing the Mormons/Catholics/Evangelicals when they stop wrongfully vilifying me and people like me and blaming us for things we have no control over in order to pass hateful legislation that strips us of equality.
32
i was all for promoting the moromon's freedom of religion until they starting f'ing with my right to be married. PLEASE STOP with mormons being victims in this. THEY started this. This is simply REACTIVE. and if other (non-mormon) utah-ans can't see that, them fuck them too! SERIOUSLY -- you aren't the victims.
33
Sounds like someone doesn't like being the new Coors.
34
Are you guys boycotting activities in south seattle? It's where the majority of blacks, all 15 of them live in Seattle.
35
Are you guys boycotting activities in south seattle? It's where the majority of trolls, all 15 of them live in Seattle.
36
Sean's column is a friendly gesture and Dan's response should have been more gracious. We should not allow our anger over this issue to prevent us from accepting the friendship and, ultimately, support of those who are not already embedded in this community, ESPECIALLY those who come from the arena of the opposition. Rejecting that friendship is immature and counterproductive.
37
A bit of good news...

Focus On The Family is suffering for its support of Prop 8:

http://coloradoindependent.com/15287/aft…

Here's hoping it spreads to Utah.

38
What happened to Colorado, Dan? As a former sort-of-Coloradan, I'm slightly saddened. (But only slightly.)
39
We are going to the Canadian Rockies and Selkirks of eastern BC.

Kicking Horse. Panarama. Lake Louise. Sunshine Village.

If all you know of BC snow is Whistler. You don't know the half....

Champagne powder was invented there.
40
i wonder how many mormons have actually read up on joseph smith. his story is pretty ridiculous, and i think that people who actually believe that he had golden tablets given to him by an angel should actually try to look at this story logically. it's pretty sad that people put credence into this story, even though it's so transparently obvious that it's bullshit. as far as i am concerned, it's about as likely to be true as xenu commanding space planes to plant humanity to the earth (or the jesus myth, for that matter).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plat…
41
@40:

You're talking about people already predisposed to believing the earth was created in six days a mere 6,000 years ago by an old man in flowing robes with pi-polar disorder. It's really not that much more of a step from that to believing Joseph Smith was handed a set of golden tablets by a guy with wings on his back.

And yeah, it's too bad innocent people, even people supportive of GLBT civil rights are going to be negatively affected, but you know what? It's a fucking war, and sometimes, regrettably, innocent victims get caught in the cross-fire. It's called "collateral damage", and if any folks in Utah feel they're being unfairly lumped in with their CJCLDS neighbors, well, they do have options when it comes to dragging their asses out of harms way.
42
A link to a list of mormon owned companies
May they burn for their support of a corrupt church full of hate.
http://www.boycottmormonbusiness.com/

Mormon trivia - One of the things they tell you in your first temple trip - is that in the lowest of the 3 levels of heaven (they believe hell is closed) all of us sinners have no gentalia... pretty funny eh...
43
Liberal Utahns and Moderate Mormons are nothing more than enablers to a ridiculous political philosophy masquerading as religion. Yes, I'll ridicule the ideology of Mormonism just like I'll ridicule the ideology of conservatism. They don't get some special pass just because they're mentioned in the bill of rights.

And...keep up with the Utah boycotts. Yes to boycotting Sundance; there are plenty of places in this great world where people could showcase their art; must we travel to the mecca of modern bigotry in order to bow down to new art? ...and, Seattle already has a great Film Festival. Support SIFF. If Robert Redford wants to maintain his brand, then get to moving it elsewhere.

The "I'm a good mormon" argument is fallacious. You can't simultaneously support authoritarian pablum and individual gay rights. You're fighting two opposing battles.
44
@5 for the win - SKI BC!

Besides, they have an Olympics to put on and can use your tourist dollars!

(shout out to all my peeps at Red Mountain in Rossland, BC, including my high school friend who's a music teacher at their high school)
45
B.C.? Wonderful! Because I was thinking you probably don't want to get the South Park creators on your back either. All they ever need is an excuse to get snarky and judgmental.
46
I think Utah should have blue and red areas
47
I grew up skiing Lake Louise and Sunshine and they are among the best in the world! Enjoy the slopes and the non-judgement in Canada
48
In a different vein, I am in Los Angeles and the state of Utah has started running ads down here about how great the Utah snow is and why don't all you Californians come out to Utah to ski? It seems they are taking the boycott seriously.
49
Sloggers are right. Sean Means's beef should be with the Mormons--who backed Prop. 8--not with those of us who were divorced against our will due to the monetary influence of said Mormons. We quite rightly have no interest in subsidizing their activities. And for those blaming blacks, umm, I don't recall any black leaders compelling us to support Prop. 8 on pain of eternal damnation.
50
Wow, I'm ashamed at a lot of what I'm reading here. I never comment on slog, but I feel compelled to right now.

I'm gay, donated generously to Prop 8, lobbied CA friends to vote against it, and was crushed when it passed. I also grew up in Salt Lake City (now living in Seattle), in a liberal, non-mormon household, and have always had very mixed feelings (that's putting it charitably) towards the LDS church.

I know that it's painful to see our rights taken away as happened in CA. It's painful to have what would otherwise be a celebratory election night marred by such a hateful amendment. It's painful to think of friends whose marriages may be torn apart. And that pain brings anger-- someone hurt us, and we want to hurt them back.

The LDS church deserves a lot of the blame-- clearly, without their support, Prop 8 would have failed. But I'm not sure blaming the entire state of Utah really makes sense in retribution. Contrary to many of the comments above, there ARE many people in Utah who are actively campaigning for gay rights. People like my parents and many others who have spent decades fighting to convince their very conservative neighbors to show some humanity and equality. People like gay and lesbian Mormons who face criticism and hate from both their church and from their gay peers. These people HAVE been telling the LDS church how they feel, they HAVE been trying to fight for gay rights, despite a very unfriendly audience in a very conservative state. To simply condemn the entire state as bigoted and backward is a slap in the face to our strongest advocates.

Everyone has the right to boycott whatever they choose (although for the vast majority of you who have never been to a Mormon church, or visited Sundance, or skied in Utah, the boycott is symbolic rather than actual). But this argument that Utahns should ONLY be protesting the Mormon church rather than responding to the oversimplified condemnation/boycott of their state seems like the lazy way out; it shouldn't be an either/or question. Utahns SHOULD work-- and some have been doing so for many years-- to further advocate gay rights. But they also have every right and reason to inform you that not everyone in the state is the closed-minded bigot that they are being painted as.

Personally, I think a more effective course of action would be trying to get Obama to take a more active stand in defending gay rights. It would be politically risky of him to do so, but would ultimately be tremendously effective. Most of you probably never spend money in Utah anyway, so that boycott is purely symbolic-- why not make a real threat and tell Obama that he won't have your support in 2012 unless he makes gay rights a real priority? Hating a church you never particularly liked before isn't nearly as powerful a statement as confronting the candidate who (many of) you actively supported. Just a thought...

Apologies for the rant. Everyone is clearly free to make their own decisions. And it's your prerogative to enjoy the heavy, wet snow of BC-- it just means one fewer person on a fresh powder day at Alta :P
51
The more I've read and heard differing arguments about whether or not boycotting is a good idea, the more I'm in favor of a major boycott.

My biggest reservation had been people like Sean, good people who don't agree with the majority from where they live being inadvertently hurt by such a boycott. But you know what I kept coming back to? SOUTH AFRICA.

I'm sure there were white people in South Africa back in the day who hated their gov't's racist apartheid policies. Hated the oppression and persecution of black people. But their disagreement (whether vocal or not) was not enough to change the system.

It took a concerted boycott from all over the world, not only to cause economic hardship to that gov't and the people (and you can bet black people were also economically impacted by the boycott, but they supported it still), but it also forced them to be the center of attention every day. And the attention was embarrassing. And they didn't like it. And it WORKED. Is racism still a problem there? Sure. But racism legislated by the state? Nope.

The parallels are pretty strong. Here's where I think a boycott of Utah and anything owned by the Mormon Church needs to go if it is to be successful. IT CAN'T JUST BE A BOYCOTT BY GAY PEOPLE. If this has any chance of genuinely effecting the Mormon Church and the state of Utah, this needs to be all people, gay and straight, who oppose what the church did with Prop. 8. If we have good organizers, this could have a real impact, rather than just being a gesture. Will the Mormon Church go away? No, but we can scare the heck out of it!
52
Stop H8! - End Religious Bigotry!
53
Maybe someone should look into how much money "Focus on the Family" spent to support the ban.

Holy crap!!! You mean it WASN'T just the Mormons?!?!? Say it ain't so!

Focus on the Family spent so much freakin' money that they have to lay off 200 of their own employees. Seems to me they are even more anti-gay marriage than Mormon folks if they can't even take care of fellow employees after their spending spree.
54
#22 - as I commented on Sean's column, we were not at the Saturday rally. I, however, was at the November 7th rally at Temple Square, and Sean stayed home with a sick kid. Is attendance at rallies the only way to protest? Will you identify yourself next time so I can check in with you?

Speaking for myself (Sean speaks for himself quite well), I'm just frustrated and sad. The November 7th rally was electric - Obama had just won, Utah wasn't the reddest state on Election Day for once, and 3000 Utahns who were full of passion descended on Mormon headquarters to tell them we're not going to take it anymore. And within a week, one of the most influential gay icons in the country advocates throwing us out with the Mormon bathwater.

Obviously I can't actually speak for gays, being straight and all. But I am a right-thinking ex-Mo (ex-Mormon, duh) who sees gay rights as a civil rights issue.

By the way Dan, I do totally adore you. I've read you every week for years and I think you're fabulous.
55
Dan, you should support your LGBT brothers and sisters in Utah - they've been working hard against some major oppression for a long time now. Here's what I think we should do. You should come to a rally in front of the Mormon temple and add some street cred. And you should not only NOT ask people to boycott Utah, you should ask everyone you know to flood Utah and Mormon-owned businesses with so many gay and gay-friendly customers that they see that people of all kinds are EVERYWHERE, and we're not going away, and maybe the best thing to do is learn to get along and treat everyone equally. Because LGBT people are normal people and deserve all the normal things in life. And then yell, "See you on the slopes, mothafuckas!" and go experience some of Utah's wonderful powder for yourself.

BTW, my boyfriend and I are heterosexual, but we are boycotting marriage until gay people can have it, too. Besides, I want to be in a civil union and get the benefits of that without having to enter into the crusty institution of heterosexual marriage. All I want is what gay people in California have!
56
As a lifelong Utahn, I'll attest that the LDS Church is about the douchiest around. But it's also bleeding membership and influence, in no small part thanks to vibrant progressive and gay communities in Salt Lake City and other enclaves throughout the state (Park City and Moab come to mind). Utah passed an amendment to the state Constitution outlawing gay marriage or anything resembling the same in 2004. That vote came down 66-to-33 percent. That's upwards of 300,000 voters who turned out and saw this codified hatred for what it is. That dedicated minority has been dragging the LDS Church into modernity for the last 50 years, and it hasn't been easy. A boycott of Utah pisses all over those efforts. Talk about boycotting Sundance, you dipshits? Sundance stands for everything the LDS Church is not. The Church would love nothing more than for Sundance to be driven out of business. (It ain't going to happen, by the way.) The ire is misdirected here. If the gay community and its supporters had been marching before the election, instead of after the fact, we wouldn't be having this silly exchange.
57
The Book of Mormon is plagiarized from an unpublished 19th Century sci-fi manuscript. That explains all the stuff about the gods on all the different planets.
58
So 600 Utahans donate to Prop 8 and you boycott the entire state.
What about 5 million Californians who voted for Prop 8?
Why aren't you boycotting California?
Are you a coward or an idiot?
Do you think any Mormon cares if Homosexuals from Seattle don't come to Utah?
I don't think so.
Enjoy your tantrum.
Did you lose your pacifier?
59
The more Homosexuals attack Mormons the more Mormons become heroes to Conservative America.
The whole Savage meltdown is a big plus for Romney 2012, like a month long ad campaign to Cultural Conservatives screaming "vote for a Mormon".
thanks
(any businesses that sink because Homosexuals didn't patronize them won't be missed)