It seems like it's always been this way. Every year the Mattachine Society types and the Stonewall types butt heads to try and prove who is leading the 'real' gay movement.

If he's tired of the visible folks, there are plenty of boring people at pride parades-- they can usually be found sitting on coolers and half-heartedly waving little pride flags while their friends jump around saying "c'mon! it's that out politician and they're giving out volunteer apps! you know, that volunteer thing I wanted you to come to and you won't? c'mon! take my picture with them! aw, you're no funnnnn!"

Day n nite... the lonely stoner comes alive at night. A a at night.

it's. a. parade.

Good point to bring up Dan.

And it's hard to believe you hold this attitude yet you disrespect people with intellectual disabilities so breezily.

I get the feeling your inner dialogue gets real stuck when approaching self-examination.

Hating on those in the community does not make the community stronger Max. Would Max prefer that the twinks, dykes on bikes and leather daddies all assimilate to some mainstream defined gay? One of the great parts of the community is our diversity, don't try and take that away.

The creator of that pile of merde-ish cliche really shouldn't be trash talkin' on "the usual suspects"....

Well even Obama in his proclimation for Gay Pride only talked about gays being leaders in the arts...and that was it.

And all because someone dresses and/or acts more mainstream doesn't mean they're boring or dull. Talk about another fucking sterotype on this thread.

I hate it when people spew shit like this. GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF.

Yes, I think that the straights need to see the quiet, everyday gays, but don't trample the rest of the gay community on your rush to the microphone.

Honest to Pete! It's a fucking Parade, not a funeral procession. Of course, there are SUPPOSED to be people there, having a fucking good-time.

Anybody ever been Las Vegas, and seen a show girl's costume (or lack of) in a show? Which, by the way, you pay huge bucks to see.

I liked Will & Grace as well. It was comedic theater, well written, dealt in stereotypes like much popular comedy. It was impressive to find it on prime time TV in that era.

Small point, Dan: the "Breeders" label. It's not totally tasteless, even amusing, but doesn't that symbolically question the LGBT folks' right to breed as well - which we do?

Excellent point, Dan.

But, the media does this with every large public gathering.

At the annual 4th of July parade, who gets the coverage: the aged veterans walking in stiff formation in their ill-fitting uniforms, or the Shriners zig-zagging along in their teeny-tiny Ford Mustangs? At Folklife, which person are you most likely to see on the 6:00 report: the buttoned-down Eddie Bauer dad with the kid in the frontpack, or, Bo Odyssey?

It's an axiom of TV news reporting: get the most active, most unusual, most colorful shot you can, whatever that may be. And people who draw the most attention to themselves, like Mutchnick's "usual suspects" for example, are going to be the most likely candidates to fit that profile.

There's that old saying: every Pride parade brings LGBT rights one step ahead, and two steps behind.

Statements like that and the attitudes behind them always rub me the wrong way. Probably because every community, minority group, and subculture has some aspect of an 'ultra-buttoned-downed' group that is afraid of what "mainstream America" will think about the full spectrum, especially the more visible and vocal members, of the identified group.

It is this same thinking that caused many individuals to be forced to give up their culture, language, and lose touch with their historical identity. Resulting in a large number of people who are afraid to express who and what they really are, and in some cases channel that fear into trying to repress the more secure, visible, vocal, and 'out' members of the community.

It's the same thought process behind those who tried to dissuade Dan and Terry from becoming parents - because of Dan's job and visibility; and not taking into account the emotional needs of them as individuals and as a couple to become parents.

Blah blah. Yes, I see this argument everywhere. You know what, the leather daddies are boring normal people too. Pride is dress up and pretend to be outrageous. Almost no one is a leather daddy at work.

I didn't feel he was trashing any part of the gay community. Me thinks there's some closet issues going on here Dan.
personally, I think the media is catering to the bigotry of the viewer cuz exposing the crazed stereotype of gay justifies marginalizing the entire group. we need to hone our tools of warfare, since the battle isn't close to being done!

When I was in college, I saw a therapist who told me I was a "homophobic homosexual." I shared the attitudes that Max expresses to here, and I dreaded a life accepting this culture. What I didn't realize at the time was how much of that disdain/disgust I felt was actually me projecting feelings about myself onto the more visible aspects of our community.

As I've matured and come to terms with my sexuality, I've also come to recognize now how correct my therapist was at the time. Attitudes like Max's are a symptom of an internalized self-hatred. I can't believe I ever would have agreed with such sentiments.

I see a parade of "mainstream" people several times a day. It's called going to and from work. If I'm going to watch a parade, I want to see a little something a little less mainstream.

@16 was in response to Max Mutchnick's remarks.

Btw, we had our Pride festivities two weeks ago and if the "usual suspects" hadn't been there or weren't given the opportunity and space to do education and outreach, I may have missed out on meeting and making friends who otherwise would have stayed in their section of the state.

As others have said, it is a parade - a celebration of diversity and pride. Pride, not shame. It is attitudes like Max's that try to push people if not back into the closet then in a closet of 'acceptability'.

As several people have pointed out, it's a goddam parade. The newspeople COULD stick a mike in the face of those of us standing on the sidelines watching in jeans and t-shirts, or they can find a six-foot, 125-pound guy wearing glitter platforms and a lime-green thong. Which is more visually interesting on TV? At the Democratic National Convention, the newsmedia almost completely ignored those of us wearing suits or business casual-type attire, and looked for the Funny Hat People. "Find the Funny Hat People!" you could practically hear the producers screeching. A dear friend of mine leveraged this and still maintained his dignity by wearing a giant rainbow Dr. Seuss-type top hat with his suit and tie. He drew cameras like flies to honey. You see the same at any parade; they're gonna find the guy who dressed up looking like the Village People cowboy at any "good ole days" type of parade. They're gonna find the lady in the Carmen Miranda hat at the Cornucopia Days parade. They're gonna find the woman dressed as a giant strawberry for the Strawberry Festival. As @4 put it, so succinctly, "It's.A.Parade."

Most disturbing of course is his nonchalance in dismissively acknowledging that without "those people", there would be no gay rights. The people whom he wishes to take the spotlight are nondescript precisely because they were closeted until it was safe not to be so; what's more, those people will refuse to share the stage with "freaks" (the word he wishes to use, but can't).

A pertinent question: When Obama threw the gays under the bus after their contributions arguably helped him win the Presidency, Dan was all about a boycott. When the corporate sponsors, in their desire for a cross-market (i.e. "metrosexuals") wish to hide those members of this community, who have arguably given it so much more, will Dan analogously suggest a boycott of their associated products? Doubtful.

Most disturbing of course is his nonchalance in dismissively acknowledging that without "those people", there would be no gay rights. The people whom he wishes to take the spotlight are nondescript precisely because they were closeted until it was safe not to be so; what's more, those people will refuse to share the stage with "freaks" (the word he wishes to use, but can't).

A pertinent question: When Obama threw the gays under the bus after their contributions arguably helped him win the Presidency, Dan was all about a boycott. When the corporate sponsors, in their desire for a cross-market (i.e. "metrosexuals") wish to hide those members of this community, who have arguably given it so much more, will Dan analogously suggest a boycott of their associated products? Doubtful.

@14

Couldn't have said it better myself.

"Find Funny Hat People" is hilarious. Someone should translate that into Latin and make it the official motto of TV news.

This is truly an indictment of the process of compiling what passes for "news" than anything else.

The story's already been written, the piece is all ready to run...just need some footage of something colorful and a pull quote and we're done.

The parade? As far as the "news" is concerned, the actual parade isn't really necessary and to save money, everyone could probably skip it--they'll just take it as "read"--because it's become a process story. The parade gets covered, but the parade isn't newsworthy.

You don't make it any more news worthy by denying the "news" the colorful b-roll or the "designed to elicit a smile during the happy talk transition throw back to a summary of the weather forecast" pull quotes.

Either way, it's just static.

What kills me is some reporter going from the parade to interview some religious fanatic like Hutcherson for a "different viewpoint". My question is why not interview white supremasists on Juneteenth or Nazis on Hannaka. Because it would piss off too many people?

Gay Pride, it seems to me, is not about pleasing straight people or the media. It's a celebration of our lives as GLBTQ people. And nothing irks me more than homophobia in the gay community. If a 95-pound twink wants to party his ass off, so be it. Let's stop attacking each other, and focus that energy into political action and service in our community.

For any news story that has to do with anything gay, not just a pride event, television journalists are required by law to include footage of at least one ridiculous drag queen and a pissed off pastor in order to maintain "balanced coverage." Bonus points are awarded for a leather daddy, a powerhouse lesbian attorney and a freaked out redneck with a chaw in his mouth.

As a Shriner, I'm always disappointed when they show us in those ridiculous little cars at parades. I drive a full-sized Lincoln Towncar, and would never be seen dead in one of those mini-cars. Plus, it takes away from the serious work with do with the Shriner's Hospital.

Oh, who am I kidding? I'm no Shriner (although I do love their fezzes) but the argument seems to be about the same to me.

there are a shit ton of annoying straight people on tv, too. representing me, i suppose. and yet, i don't care.

The underlying error here is giving a shit about local tv news.

It's a goddam parade. Everybody is invited.

Dan, you put your foot in this one. Dayyyyyum!

It seems more and more people are completely misunderstanding what Pride is all about. It's especially puzzling coming from another gay. You're not there to show how much you are like other people. Fuck that. It's about showing people that we have nothing to be ashamed of. See also this, from one of the Slate blogs: http://theroot.com/views/where-s-pride-p… .

@19, I see that happening with a lot of younger gays. I was like that myself back in the day, and some of my younger friends are like that now. But we mature and get over it. It just sounds like Max hasn't grown up yet.

He wants someone vocal that represents him, not just a representative for him, but a representative like himself. It's interesting.

I also don't think the "usual suspects" represent me either (though other than just now, I don't use that particular term because it does have a negative association that's undeserved). I do want someone who is like myself to represent me. I don't want old, cranky gay men and women, or young spry, idiots, I want the Average Joe. The gay community doesn't foster or respect people who are average though. The more extreme in any particular direction you are, the more respected you are. Perez Hilton is sleaze, but he's respected because hey, at least he's "himself" and he doesn't make any excuses for it. I'm a mild mannered guy who most people wouldn't assume was gay (not through any intentional effort to hide, or "act") but other gay friends frequently tell me I'm not really gay, or chide me as "homophobic" but I'm really just this way. The community confuses pride with flamboyance, and being "in-your-face" but I'm just as proud as anyone else and I do think the Average Joes of the gay community should get a little of this attention and respect instead of being overlooked.

Also, you guys would do well to read the entire article, the section Dan has posted doesn't not reflect the entirety of Max's views. Max also had another editorial on what it was like to be a gay father who travels and has to deal with every TSA agent not believing he, his husband, and his daughters are a family. Max is not without his flaws, but the picture Dan paints is too harsh.

Dan you are a bit of a hypocrite on this. The reporter talking to the twink that Max takes issue with is because the twink is vapid, slutty, and clueless. He takes issue with him being 95 lbs, not because he hates skinny people, but for the same reasons people take issue with women who are "too skinny" and promote the image as desirable. You have *frequently* bashed straight people for being vapid, slutty, and clueless. Just because you're gay it's ok to be a tacky idiot focused solely on your image? How is one form of shallowness something that needs to be defended but the other should be attacked?

What I love about Will and Grace is how you all thought that Will was gay, when he's played by a str8 boi.

Stereotypes make for funny sitcoms.

Will & Grace's production team always had ideas of what gay could and shouldn't be. John Barrowman, who has been out of the closet during his entire career, was on a short-list to play Will but was told he seemed "too straight".

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/…

Truly it the fault of people like Ricky Martin, Tom Cruise, Mike Piazza, Aaron Schlock, Troy Aikman and Anderson Cooper. If athletes, musicians and tv/movie people in the public eye would come out people would realize we come from all walks of life.

That said, a gay pride parade without our most fabulous brothers and sisters would be like Mardi Gras with only elderly couples and families, yawn.

Really? This kind of argument from the man that gave us Just Jack? Queen, please.

I suppose it would be possible to enlist a group of main-steam, boring looking old gays to shadow the press and jump in front of any outrageous twinks if it looked like they were about to get filmed. Should we ask for volunteers?

@41, you hit the nail squarely on the head there. Emphatic agreement! I don't WANT Pride without the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and the happy slutty drunken young twinks. I don't WANT Pride without Dykes on Bikes. I don't want it to turn into Auburn's Good Ole Days, for chrissake.

Wise up closet-queens, homophobes aren't going to like you no matter what you do or don't do. You. Are. Gay. They don't like gay people...at all! They don't like gay people who are male or female, short or tall, white or black or what have you, they don't like you if you're a devout Christian or Muslim or Jew, they don't really care what you're wearing either. THEY. DON'T. LIKE. YOU.....because you are gay! Trying to seem 'normal' (and WTF does that mean anyway?) isn't going to make them hate you less. Just go ask any member of the Phelps tribe, if you don't believe me. You may as just be your nelly self, because nothing is ever going to make them like you or view you as "normal" The twinks, the trannies, the leather daddies have realized this and live only to please themselves...because they know that's the only person they will ever please. The only way a homophobe will like a gay person is if they go straight or go to hell.

People, who are desperately trying to be "normal" and blend in so the in-crowd, the herd accepts them, are closet cases. They dislike those who are out loud and proud because they're terrified of being out. Of being different. They are Ray Cohn's spineless hand maidens. They're still trapped in their high-school clique.

@46 You are not a closet case just because you aren't flamboyant, or "obvious" or whatever other adjective that is applicable. Someone who "acts" straight, and someone who has straight mannerisms but is openly gay, are two different things. I am not trying to be liked, I am not trying to be accepted. I am comfortable the way I am. Trying to push me to be what you think a gay man should be is about as hypocritical as someone pushing you to be what they think a man should be.

There are people who do "act" straight, who are closet cases, but not all gay men who appear straight are acting or trying to deceive or hide.

@ #47 - Ever see the movie "Jeffery?" You remind me of the scene where Patrick Stewart is describing seeing a straight acting gay man state that he and his partner, who is a lawyer, want people to know that not all gay men are limp-wristed flamers, to which Patrick Stewart then states "Oh, get her."

Nothing rubs me more wrong then sanctimonious acting gays that somehow "think" they can turn their noses up to other gays. When your sucking on that guys cock, you don't look any different then I do. Period.

@48 I'm not turning up my nose at you. The assumption that we're all closet cases, or the assumption that we hate ourselves is what I object to. I said that people should be able to be "normal" or "average" and that other people shouldn't demand that they need to behave a certain way. I don't need to be a flaming homosexual any more than you need to be a nerdy computer artist. So stop complaining that people who don't behave like you think they're better than you. I don't, and I agree, we do all look the same when we're sucking a cock.

I have never heard anything more ridiculous than the term "straight acting" gays. Hello? How do you "act" straight? I know plenty of straight men, I'm related to quite a few and friends and co-workers with plenty more, and none of them are anything alike....nor are they like "straight acting" gay men. None of them go around trying to "butch" it up. Few straight men actually are butch...except the ones who're compensating for something. If you're a "straight acting" gay, you are just that, acting. Why not just be yourself....like real guys.

p.s. That stuff about homophobes hating ya' cause you're gay, totally true. Wear clothes from the GAP because you like them, not because you think the straight folks will suddenly like you if you "act" straight.

I praise the sanity, Dan. As for Max, he should take a good hard look back on what his money was built upon. If twinks should "read more" and represent him less, I wonder how comfortable he'd be with a character like Jack (bless his heart) representing him. Perhaps not good enough to represent him on a news report, but certainly great enough to beam into the households of American viewers (and impressionable budding gay boys) across the country for numerous years...

@50 You fail at reading comprehension. I put "act" in quotes because it's a ridiculous term. I don't act, I am. My mannerisms or the way I speak is no more an "act" than the way your mannerisms or speech. If you must know: I also happen to like Gap cargo shorts, but their shirts never really fit right. Their jeans are "meh" and I'll only buy a pair if they're on sale. Where do you shop? Should I make some guess based on your posts as well?

...Does anyone else dream what it would be like if the pride parade would sometimes bring their queer asses to a neighborhood that's never experienced (or pretends such) an actual live gay person before? Start the march in, say, Bell square, head over to Medina, then shuttle over to South Park and White Center? Wouldn't that be like crafting your own in-person media (rather the HFCS empty calories of TV news)? And wouldn't that make an asteroid-crater of an impact??

The problem isn't the Jim Foreman's of the world, it's Mr Mutchnik, who clearly owns a faded tee shirt that says "somewhat over the rainbow".

I always took pride to be (And I'm sure everyone has a different take):

1) a chance for queer folks to walk with pride in whatever clothes, makeup, state of mind, state of inebriation you want to.
2) walk in a large well-known city parade, in your supportive neighborhood with allies, friends, family and even those just learning tolerance and compassion.
3)And, yes, even open some minds. The parade, the outrageous parts, creates some tittering giggles. Turns some people on or off. Inspires some research into a previously unconsidered kink, for the gays and the straights in the crowd alike. Those condoms that get passed out save lives.

It's pride, it's fun, it's sexy, it's community and it's education.

Every attendee there has their own reason, and it would be boring as hell if those reasons all matched perfectly.
I guess I just wish, especially considering we're a city where there's a few places to flaunt pride all year, (if not the street itself), I wish more people would remember it's not always only about letting an inner fairy out.

Hell, give all the "up-tight" Queens a hit of "E," then they'll mellow out and love everybody.

This is weird. I thought Dan expressed similar sentiments in his Pride chapter in the Skipping to Gommorah book. Or however it's spelled. Maybe I read it wrong.

Also, as a straight [but non-breeding] former citizen of New York City, I did a lot of whining over the unrealism of Friends.

What is with this "breeder" shit, anyway, are you mad at us now? Because of Obama? What?

57:

No worries Phoebe, "breeder" is just an affectionate nickname for straight, because we are capable of breeding when we pair up.