Women, Gays Apparently Ruining Sci-Fi For the Rest of Us

Comments

1
Anybody bashing SyFy's version of Battlestar obviously knows nothing about what comprises good sci-fi.
2
Oh, god, don't tell Ursula K. LeGuin!

So what's the average age of the XYs running the site: 13?
3
Hell yeah, the women and gays are ruining sci-fi. Battlestar, Firefly, Star Wars, the various Treks, Alien/Aliens, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Eureka, Forbidden Planet, (original) Day the Earth Stood Still, innumerable episodes of the Twilight Zone, the Outer Limits, hell--even the authors writing sci-fi are hacks and have been ruining sci-fi for some time now. Ursula K. Le Guin, Mary Shelley... it's all been downhill since then.

Good sci-fi is 10,000 CGI and sweating Charlton Hestons all running around... the planet of the Charlton Hestons...
4
Wasn't Captain Kirk kind of omnisexual? Didn't he get it on with some green chick at one point? That's definitely interspecies hanky-panky, and everyone knows Captain Kirk was the manliest man who ever lived.
5
Andre Norton started it all in 1934.
6
Way to raise the alarm, Paul Constant!

Seriously, as someone who toots the "we in the publishing industry" horn, you could have tossed a few statistics about readership, viewership, and fandom, in general.

You could have discussed demographics of audiences, driving economic forces of the industries, and so on...

In short, you could have tried to provoke a reasoned and intelligent discussion.

Nope. Not you. Not the industry insider with all the big inside knowledge. Rather, you took the shrieking moral crusader path. As the kids say, these days... meh.
7
@4, Kirk fucked a green chick in the last movie.

8
@6 Pretty hard to have a "reasoned and intelligent" discussion when one side of it is utterly ridiculous and ignorant.
9
Yeah, nothing is worse than having a sexy, strong character like Kara Thrace, Aeryn Sun, Zoe, Kathryn Janeway, Princess Leia, or Uhura (both TOS and the new movie). It completely and utter ruins everything. And then what do the male characters do? They want to kiss the girls! YUCK!

These excepts make me think of 2nd graders.
10
I loved both the new BSG and the original, but Katee Sackhoff's Starbuck could beat the shit out of Dirk Benedict's Starbuck, go out for a week-long bender, then come back and kick his ass a second time.

I had reservations about a female starbuck, but Sackhoff played the part more manly than Benedict did.
11
@8 Exactly.

Someone who claims that the new BSG is worse than the old is objectively stupid.
12
"Davies had more plans like this for Doctor Who, but there were so outrageously bad and obnoxious that the leftist BBC actually put a stop to him doing that (citing that Doctor Who was traditionally a “family show”)."

[citation_needed]
13
Having watched both versions, I think someone is stuck on stupid.

We all remember our heyday as being The Golden Hour, but it usually wasn't - the human brain has a way of editing out the painfully bad parts.
14
I imagine there's a significant crossover of Anti-Feminist/Sci-Fi fans. What with all the fear of vigina and all.
15
@2, that's what I said! Maybe someone could arrange a cage match?

I thought about leaving a comment on that post recommending they try reading "The Left Hand of Darkness" but then I realized it was probably futile and I thought I would make that recommendation here instead.
16
"Things are worse in Britain. A few years ago Doctor Who was brought back."

That should've been the entire article.
17
I'm confused. Having watched all of the new Doctor Who series and a bit of Torchwood, Jack Harkness continues to try and fuck anything that moves. When did this allegedly stop?
18
@17 - actually, I thought they approached him. Jack just reciprocates.
19
Thank god for the feminization of sci-fi!

I grew up in the 80's a straight white male in a conservative city attending a southern baptist church no less, weaned on the SF novels of Niven and Heinlein. Even from my perspective at the time, the treatment of female characters was embarrassing.
20
@17 And doesn't that make him the manliest of men?

This article is a joke. I'm sure all those women scientists that were inspired by Uhura, and the girls growing up right now watching BSG, Farscape, Star Trek who might become scientists, are just so sad to have taken away the drive of some boys to go into science. Because there's such a dearth of men going into the field.
21
Oh please. Science fiction has always been the realm of the gays, the feminists, and even the subversive, I mean, duh. Publishers and networks have known for a LONG time who a big part of their audience is... Straight boys who think otherwise need to revisit what was so appealing REALLY about Superman, Batman/Robin, Han Solo/Luke Skywalker, Starbuck/Apollo, Spock/Kirk, etc. ad nauseam.

Plus, science fiction has always been front and center in taking on social issues like feminism, race, etc., because it can talk about controversial issues within a new framework. What is X-Men really about? Heroes? Is Princess Leia cool *just* because of her metal bikini? Are Amanda Tapping's and Claudia Black's characters on Stargate SG1 appealing *just* because she's sexy? Aren't there some pretty compelling feminist points being made by these characters, too? Duh.
22
i love nerdy guys in general, but there are quite a few embittered geek-types out there. perhaps this is a sort of "true forced loneliness" sour grapes?
23
Sorry, guys, but science fiction is a haven for people lacking social skills. It should surprise no one that it's also a haven for right-wing, sexist homophobes. Fortunately? These people are an extreme minority, just like they are in every other North American subculture, and generally no one pays any attention to them unless it's to occasionally point them out as 'interesting specimens'.
24
I love that they claimed that the new BSG wasn't male or dark enough for them. What the hell more did they want?
25
Oh, 15, good for you! You got my very oblique, very geeky sci-fi reference!
26
This actually comes out of a larger bigoted "movement" called Men Going Their Own Way, or MGTOW.

Here's a link to their "manifesto"

http://menforjustice.net/cms/index.php?o…

One of their tenets is to make sure women are "feminine" so they can be responsible and nurturing.

They don't care if Uhura inspires women, because omen should only be inspired to have babies and support the masculine.

It's really fucked.
27
Also from the comments on that site:

"I really enjoyed Joss Whedon’s “Firefly” despite Whedon being one of the biggest manginas working in tv."

Seriously? mangina?!
28
I wish Octavia Butler were still alive so she could knock these boys upside the head.
29
Don't worry, she'll come back from the grave to haunt their dreams, in all her tall majesty.
30
Isn't "anti-feminist" just a euphemism for "misogynist"?
31
Uh oh, don't tell those folks about Gaylaxicon
32
As a fan of the original series, I can safely say Doctor Who always been a very gay friendly show. I mean come on, the show centers around a flamboyantly dressed/acting man who jet sets around the universe with a gal-pal companion. A companion who for several years was played by a man in skirt (well oK... it was a kilt, but still).
33
As an omnisexual sci-fi geek myself, I simply cannot disavow this silly bullshit hard enough.
34
It's kinda funny that BSG is used as an example of gays taking over Sci-Fi, when every gay character on that show was either weak, or crazy, or both.
35
I think the important thing to note about that article is the part where the author links to Dirk Benedict's screed, that justified most of this idiot's thinking in the first place. So Benedict, a washed-up actor, who won't admit his anger comes from his character being turned into a woman (who kicked ass more than he ever could), spouts this stuff & a legion of Heinlein/Pournelle/Stirling/Weber/Ringo fanboys think they can rally 'round a movement.

As someone heavily involved in the SF& Fantasy genres from a reader & pro level, I'm slapping my forehead and almost feel like apologizing for them all.

What might make the article and some of the comments enjoyable is if you read it out loud in the tone of that comic-book snob on the Simpsons.

(ps: I'm not the Vlad taking on those morons, though I wish him luck)
36
The reason old-school sci-fi is all about men is because the male authors were situated in an age when men "did things, invented, explored" and women were homemakers. As progressive and radical as these authors could be, some of them could not overcome the deep-rooted misogynistic tendencies of their generation (Heinlein is a perfect example).

And @15, I second your recommendation. LeGuin has been my favorite sci-fi author since I first read "The Dispossessed" as a young teen. Although the Spearhead guys might not believe it, sci-fi also has the potential to inspire women, gays, and lesbians to make scientific discoveries. It hasn't been the 1950s for half a century.
37
@36 - ok, I'll ignore WW II if you will.
38
I read through some of the other articles on that site and was blown away at the misogyny. They do have a women contributor to make the claims that feminism caused the drastic inflation we've seen since the 60s, and that women really do yearn to be at home otherwise they would have invented something in the thousands of years since patriarchy took over.
These people want to shove modernity into the period from 45-59, it's kinda sad really.
39
@35,

Supposedly, Benedict originally didn't give much of a shit about Starbuck's gender being changed. (For one thing, he hated the original BSG when it aired and was not interested in seeing it return in any incarnation.) I'm certain that all of Benedict's butt hurting is the result of his washed up career.
40
@37, I am oversimplifying things a bit, eh?
41
Out of the BIG 3 Sci-fi aka the names everyone has heard of: (Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke) I can attest the only one I really loathe is Heinlein.

Clarke can get a little too technical/dry for my tastes - and he even had a story with a nonwhite gay protagonist, granted it's not one of his well known stories, but there you got.

Asimov is all over the place (considering the bizarre alien biology in The Gods Themselves) etc.

while Heinlein, oh god - the rampant manly-man, incest and ugh.
42
Sounds to me like someone still can't get a date.
43
I think their "movement" can be boiled down to this: We thought when sci-fi was popular with chicks we'd be popular with chicks, too, but chicks still won't fuck us and we're really, super mad we're still losers.
44
I've been rolling my eyes at these pasty little 14-year-olds ranting from their mom's basement for the last 40 years. Get the hell off my SF lawn, you little punks. The only reason you're so threatened by women and gays is that you still aren't sure whether it's okay when you wake up with a sticky puddle on your Batman sheets.
45
@41 - what do you expect from someone who thought Ayn Rand was cool?
46
@ 41: What about Frank Herbert?
47
As a well-credentialed Heinlein-worshipping red meat eating white male scifi freak, I'll agree with one key point of both arguments: Cap'n Jack is the most annoying Who-sidekick since the little proto-Wesley Crusher with his badge for mathematical excellence. But it has nothing at all to do with his polysexuality. It's purely because he's a regenerating douchebag combining the worst traits of Claire Bennett and Bart Simpson.

Any BSG-fan who doesn't recognize the sublime greatness of both shows is a sad and impoverished soul. The original, with its groundbreaking special effects, gee-whimsey tone in such stark contrast to its pitch-black setting, rare Bruce & Clark, Gilgamesh & Enkidu chemistry between its two leads made it the best TV show of its day and paved the way for future greatness like ST:TNG.

The second series just simply blew the expectations for what should be expected of a space opera right out of the water. Its standards of plot, character, dialogue, acting, and continuity render it fit to be judged alongside the finest adventure sagas, scifi or not.

Back to Dr. Who, David Tennant is the finest Doctor yet. The Girl in the Fireplace is the finest Dr. Who episode yet. If this is how womens and ass-pirates are ruining scifi, I say Blemange! Hoist the skull and crossed pink rocket-ships, fire up the vibro-cutlasses, and let the sundering continue.
48
Well said, #44 :)
49
OMG! The comment thread over there is a riot. Do any of those men have girlfriends?

I got hooked on the Dune series a few years back and I was struck by the way Frank Herbert obviously loved and revered women. The incredibly dynamic female characters he created took no back seat to any males and they certainly were not just window dressing.
50
hilarious, considering that david tennant is considered a national treasure now.
51
It's been very interesting reading the comments on this thread as one I've learned a few things sci fi wise about books and TV shows I've watched in the past. And two some of the beta comments that I read from whipped men here in Seattle. The Spearhead blog is an informative blog that caters to an audience of men that have agreed on the simple premise that "feminism" and the accompanying policies of political correctness are nothing more than a program of neutering men for the benefit of womyn and their ilk. I have been living here in Seattle for over 6 years and it shocks me that Seattle 4's and 5's in this city think that they have the ability to compete with NYC HB9's and HB10's and that as a man I should play their flaky games. Believe me when I say that I don't hesitate telling women here you have an inflated sense of yourself, where I'm from (NJ) I wouldn't even talk to you. Men in this city need to man the hell up and figure out that if they understand the simplest form of game they don't have to put up with the obstacles that womyn put up in their face, namely shaming men into marriage policies that benefit women. There is only one reason to get married and that is to have children. Other than that its a fools folly. I can guarantee hands down any man with a shred of testosterone left in himself who read an article of the Spearhead is saying to himself what the F$%k am I doing being a beta chump to these women .
52
@51 - The reasons you have the problems you have has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with the fact that you're a loon. HTH
53
I'm a loon!!! LOL!!!! is that the best you have to offer. I offer a coherent argument about this subject and you respond with a stupid statement. C'mon grow a pair and give me a real argument.
54
Wow. They REALLY don't want to get laid, do they?
55
@51 - Do actual mature males still refer to women as "hot babes" (HB9's / HB10's).

I always figured that was the language of immature boys, somewhere in the age group of 13 - 15 years of age. I guess you proved me wrong.
56
1) Don't bag out Captain Jack.

2) If women don't belong in Sci-fi, how do you explain Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth Moon - two of the best Sci-Fi writers I have read.

Wake up idiot
57
1) Don't bag out Captain Jack.

2) If women don't belong in Sci-fi, how do you explain Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth Moon - two of the best Sci-Fi writers I have read.

Wake up idiot.

Jeffery E Doherty.
58
what a load of crap.
59
I'll bet he thinks The Iron Dream is a Really Great book...all except for that stupid afterward by Homer Whipple...
60
@51: If you're on the wrong end of supply and demand, move the hell back to NYC, or, better yet, DC. The PNW has never been the home of glitz and glamour.
61
I wouldn't even talk to you

We appreciate that, and will return the favor.

The "HB9's and HB10's" bit is about "hot babes"? I thought it was some sort of obscure auto part.
62
Oh, @51. So angry, so deluded. Once you grow up and leave your parent's house, and hopefully enter your twenties, you will actually realize women are human beings. Still, us HB#? appreciate the silent treatment.
63
"@51 - Do actual mature males still refer to women as "hot babes" (HB9's / HB10's).

I always figured that was the language of immature boys, somewhere in the age group of 13 - 15 years of age. I guess you proved me wrong."

No, it's the language of PUAs -- self styled "pick up artists" who believe so strongly that women are weak, inferior, and the ruination of men that they devote huge amounts of time and energy to an academic and byzantine strategy designed to make sure they're surrounded by women at all times.
64
Can I call Poe's Law on 51? It's not an exact application, but I think he's more parody than sincere... Really, the only thing I'm going on is the use of "womyn" and the ridiculous stereotype this commenter seems to embody (Dudebro from Jersey... Please). Plus, the use of an email address as the commenter ID - highly suspect.
65
@51: Wow, I bet all of us "PNW HB4 and HB5"s are really bummed out you didn't lay some of your sweet, sweet Jersey manly-man magic on us. There's nothing more we like than being ushered back into the kitchen by some mouth-breather reeking of Axe and telling us to stay away from his preciouses.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll be in my corner growing the hair out on my legs and reading the Samuel Delaney books you hated because you thought "the dude sex scenes were gross" while frantically gripping your ST:DS9 fanfic in your sweaty hands.
66
@51: Wow, I bet all of us "PNW HB4 and HB5s" are really bummed out you didn't lay some of your sweet, sweet Jersey manly-man magic on us. There's nothing more we like than being ushered back into the kitchen by some mouth-breather reeking of Axe and telling us to stay away from his preciouses.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll be in my corner growing the hair out on my legs and reading the Samuel Delaney books you hated because you thought "the dude sex scenes were gross" while frantically gripping your ST:DS9 fanfic in your sweaty hands.
67
The funny thing is no one who reads the Spearhead cares a bit about what readers of the Stranger think. I think the audiences are mutually exclusive. Meanwhile, stop your knee-jerk reactions and try reading some of the more sensible posts on the site in detail. I bet you'll find things there you agree with -- but are too chicken to admit to doing so here!
68
I gotta say I really feel for the guy from Jersey as everyone really seems to be harping on what is pretty much state of affairs between men and women these days. Oops I mean western woman, and their crass and unfeminine ways. I dont mean to make this a long post but he has some merit to his argument.

I kind of laughed at his description of 4's and 5's not really knowing their place in the dating world and feeling really sorry for these women who dont even realise that their inflated ego's are due to men who are incapable of landing a quality woman. I think it goes without saying that any woman who is overweight which most western women are (and you know who you are) are simply delusional thinking that they can compete with as the commenter said HB9/10's.

Lets be realistic, in the casual sexual marketplace, people are interchangeable commodities, valued and priced according to a single measure of status. Absolutely no one is exempt from this. Men or women

Modern Sex and the City culture has trained a generation of women to think of men as accessories, placing the status benefits of the pairing at a substantially higher priority than the quality of the relationship itself. The result is that American women have, as a group, lost interest in the skills necessary to make a relationship work, instead concentrating on the quest for the high-status male. Casual sex and combat dating that the modern dating landscape has become is a direct result of this.

I dare anyone to refute this........

Most feminist advances have been of great benefit to women and society. Women must have the right to vote, and to be respected equally within the workplace. We simply can’t afford to ignore half of our nation’s talent go ignored. On the other hand, the rise of the modern, “post-feminist” Sex and the City alpha-female has been a disaster for atttudes of men, women, and dating as a whole.

Another thing that I have to agree with our commenter @51 is that marriage and the policies of divorce in this country are as he puts it a "fools folly", Marriage as it is currently constituted is the worst deal imaginable for men.

You give up on all other women forevermore only to run a less than 53% risk that the aging woman you’re stuck with will walk off with half your money and the house on nothing more than her personal whim. Remember that in 70% of all divorce cases it's woman who initiate the proceedings, also the divorce system tends to award wives custody of the children, substantial child support, usually the marital home, half the couple’s assets, and, often, heavy alimony payments.

I'm sure that this may come as startling news to a public that has been led to believe that women are the ones who suffer financially postdivorce, not men. When the love is gone, women can be as cold as if they had never known you. Listen to me — skip all that mess and learn to get the sex for free if you don’t already. All the positive loving benefits you can get out of marriage can also be had within an unmarried committed relationship.

Men being pressured for “commitment” sometimes attempt to point this out: “Why is it such a big deal? What is going to be different after we’re married?” The men are right, of course: a wedding ceremony has no magical power to produce lifelong happiness. Unfortunately, this seems to be something women only learn from experience. In closing on this issue i'll say this. Don’t get married. The piece of paper is unnecessary for having a loving relationship with a woman. Any woman you are dating who tells you otherwise does not love you completely.

In closing I really feel bad for the commenter @51 not so much at his displeasure with women, which is nothing more than a by product of negative societal changes. No I feel bad for him because he just doesnt have the ability to express his argument in a manner in which most people can understand. I hope the that the statement that follows will help him in the future.

The louder people protest and the quicker they resort to insults the closer you are to telling a truth they don’t like.

Commenter @51 I just wanted to tell you I'm from NJ(trenton) also...
69
You moron you clearly don’t know what good SyFy or Si FI (what ever) is! What kind of crap is this! Stop trying to spread you narrow minded crap.
70
I read the article, then read the comments... I cant help it if the conversation changed. if you want to get back to the Sci Fi (correct spelling you dolt!!!) then get back to it
71
@36: heinlein *did* let women be pilots in starship troopers. it has to count for something. (although it was verhoeven who thought of the coed showers.)

@43 FTW

72
Heinlein was a man of his times. He was born in 1907 and attended the US Naval Academy in a time when women were not permitted to serve in uniform. For a man of his times, he had progressive views about women and their role in society. He created strong female characters and clearly thought that a woman who could do the job should do the job.

While there wasn't coed bathing in Starship Troopers (it was after all a children's book) there's plenty in his more adult-oriented work.
73
Verhoven's thought some great gender-neutral thoughts about the future (and the past, for that matter.

The green skinned space babe in the new Star Trek flick was a tribute to the original one that (attempted to) seduced Captain Christopher Pike in the pilot episode, The Cage later written to be The Menagerie. We saw more Orion Slave Women in Enterprise, but none crossed Kirk's path in the series or movies.

An officer and a gentleman from the 60s, Kirk only got properly laid a handful of times we know for sure. But he kissed the alien space babe of the week without a moment's pause.

Love the Heinlein that I've read, despite his mid-20th century gender sensibilities. Love Asimov (including his limericks). Love Clark. In love with the original Dune. Not so much Brian's contributions. The few stories of Le Guin I've read have scared the heck out of me. Been resistant to picking her up again.

Need to read Ender's Game when I get my hands on it.

Would choose a sonic screwdriver over a lightsaber any day and twice Sundays and Tuesdays.
74
These people obviously has never run into any of the Kirk/Spock slash that has circulated since the 1970s! (That's male/male romance written by women.) Yeah, women have been making Sci Fi-heroes gay for decades. XD

Torchwood was huge for slashers as well, in that they had a canon male couple. Go to YouTube and type in "Jack Ianto kiss" to see what I mean. Unfortunately Ianto died in the last season, which puts Davies on my list of people to slap. :-(

75
@ 73

just fyi: orson scott card is a huge homophobe. ender's game is a bad-ass read though.
76
@43: Yes.
77
@28 - I second the Octavia Butler shout-out. Woman blew my mind WIDE OPEN.
78
This scandalously nerdy and gay guylesque performance at Rebar's Bacon Strip, featuring Dr. Who and Spock, I guess does prove the point (in a good way!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ApnT6aC…
79
Full link to the Dr. Who Spock guylesque performance got cut off in my comment 78, it's www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ApnT6aCu4 or search for "Slash Fiction at BaconStrip" on youtube to find it.
80
@35- Stirling? Which one? Bruce or S.M.? S.M. Stirling is like a episode of X:WP in print form most of the time, even though he has co-written with Ringo.
81
Mr. Spock, as the child of a Human-Vulcan marriage, is the spawn of an "omnisexual" relationship. If omnisexuality is so bad, how did it produce one of the great Sci-Fi characters of all time?
82
I realised last night that the author's argument is absolutely correct, given the way he defines his terms. It goes like this:

1. Science fiction TV used to be mostly about Men Doing Stuff.

2. I like that kind of science fiction TV.

3. Now they have lots of science fiction that has Men Talking About Stuff and Women Talking About Stuff, so that women will watch it.

4. I don't like that kind of science fiction TV.

5. Therefore all the women's influence has ruined science fiction TV for me.

All questions of subjectiveness vs. objectiveness aside (he presents this as an objective argument rather than a personal one), the guy's bang on here. He's still a misogynistic and small-minded ass, and he may not know much about literature, but dammit, he knows what he likes, and this lace-trimmed foofaraw ain't it, pal!
83
51 and 68 need to work on their trolling skills, a thread this near the top of "the most commented on" sidebar should have more ACTION!
84
"Troll" = "someone who doesn't agree with me" eh thryn?