Maine Voters Repeal Gay Marriage Law

Comments

1
Fuck Maggie.
Fuck Brian.
Fuck NOM.
Fuck SFMM.
Fuck Christianists.
Fuck Mormons.
2
I can think of a lot of civil rights that would get repealed by vote. Why are rights put up to a vote? Mob rule sucks. Fuckin' mouth breathers.
3
So much for my Spring nuptials with Baconcat on Mount Desert...
4
Shit!
5
Motherfuckers. You don't fucking put civil rights up to a motherfucking vote.
6
Look on the bright side. If we win, we have five times the population of Maine. Net gain: more than five million people living in freedom.
7
Do you really think everything BUT marriage is free? Are we truly all that free with DOMA still hanging over our heads on a daily basis?
8
So, no lobster at the wedding, yada yada.
9
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U…

YES ON 1! YES FOR MAINE! The people of Maine have spoken, because they were told the truth and not lies. Marriage between one man and one woman has been upheld.
10
Despite the sad outcome in Maine (close, at least)... R-71 being approved here is a huge victory. How many other times have gay rights been put to a vote and passed?

As Savage says: we are winning.
11
Has there actually been a state that affirmed gay marriage in a public vote? This is going to be like interracial marriage and have to be decided in the courts. Just because a law is passed by the voters does not make it constitutionally valid. This is a federal 14th ammendment fight. It will take decades for the old bigots to die off and make these initiatives to go away if not done judicially.

12
@ 9,

Funny, I saw some of the Yes on 1 ads and they were some of the most psycho, hateful, insane lies ever put into a campaign.

Bearing false witness much?
13
I love it when after saying something prejudicial, the offender always claims not to be a bigot. Tell that to the person you just marginalized.
14
Loveschild, go fuck yourself. I'm so sick of you right now I could just puke.
15
Loveschild is a fornicator with bastard children who will grow up to be the next generations rapist and murderers. That's what my relligious beliefs say. By the way, I'm not a bigot and I don't hate anyone.
16
Dear Loveschild,

Die in a fire with a cunt full of glass.

Kisses,
-Xian
17
there's results in nj and va too.

hopefully this will encourage democrats like obama to not be so tentative. people in america are tiring of the pro wall st b.s. and not having jobs. they better get a stiffie (a spine that is) andpass health care or else the disappointment factor will overwhelm D's next year.

and in virginia there was NO youth vote. No change in the nature of politics. Totally unused Obama grass roots roots. Uncultivated. No grass roots organizing by Obama going on anywhere.

I hope he wakes up and starts kicking some ass instead of this abstract mellifluous wordy professor shtick. where's the fight in him, people would like to see it.
18
Oh and Loveschild,

If 71 is approved, it will destroy your opposite marriage instantly like a nuclear bomb.

I know because the Reject 71 lit told me so.

Your husband-brother may as well divorce your frigid ass tomorrow.
19
@1: Come on, man. Leave religious affiliation out of this. As a Christian, I take offense to that because there are so many Christians out there fighting like hell for our rights.
20
I haven't commented here in a while, but just wanted to drop by and say fuck you Loveschild.

These maps have convinced me to pursue a new environmentalist agenda. Define a minimum acceptable population density—you know, for the aminals and whatnot. Carpetbomb the areas that don't meet it; just clear it all out. Let it return to the wild. This would solve a lot of these civil rights votes.
21
Looks as though tonight we might be winning where we've tactically made an end run around the word "marriage." I'm devastated that those in Maine who took the greater risk now have to wait even longer. And as much as I pick on them, I'm really grateful to Ed and Jamie tonight for having pushed what looks like a winning strategy to fully protect local gay and lesbian families as quickly as possible.

I hope what the Times is suggesting proves true:

If you assume the roughly 50 percent statewide turnout predicted by the Secretary of State's office, there appear to be far more votes left to count in the counties that are approving Referendum 71 than in the counties that are opposing it.
22
I refuse to live in a country that degrades my people in this way. America is the disgrace of the Western world and I am leaving.
23
Take heart!

Marriage equality is going to happen. It is. It's inevitable. It may take time, it may go back and forth for a while, but in the end, homosexuals will eventually be treated equally to heterosexuals.

If this ultimately fails in Maine, it will be disappointing, but it won't be the end.

Keep fighting! You're on the correct side... you know it, and even though it doesn't seem that way, they know it too. They're fighting against the future... they know that, it's just too hard for them to accept that... It's inevitable, but it might just take some time. Don't give up, don't despair, keep fighting!
24
What will Loveschild - and the rest of the Christian right - have to say when people vote to approve gay marriage? They've staved off legitimizing and court- or legislature-approved equality, arguing that such rights should be decided at the ballot. What happens when a majority of people say yes to equality? I'm just wondering what they'll be ranting about in the years to come when voters approve gay marriage.
25
@19 The term "Christianist" has particular connotations related to conservative Republican Bible-thumpers who are among the worst, most bigoted and hate-filled people in our society. It's a very targeted insult.

As a congregant a local Lutheran church that signed on the statement of support for R-71 and as regular Slog commenter, I can say that most Slog commenters understand the difference between tolerant, reasonable people who identify as Christians and those who use the mantle of Christianity to further a hateful, homophobic, misogynist, anti-choice and anti-life agenda.
27
Annise Parker is heading into the run-off for Mayor of Houston with a commanding lead, even after her sexuality was attacked.

Largest city in the country with an openly gay Mayor. In East Texas. Oh my.
28
Yes, what 25 said. I'm cool with Christianity in general. Just not the loud and moronic subgroup.
29
@15: No, Loveschild's children (lovesgrandchildren) are all gay.
30
Take heart, all.

We are winning. Civil rights should never be put to a vote, but because of our poverty they presently are, thus this is a war. It appears we lost the battle in Maine, but we will win the war. Justice and compassion will overcome, and the LCs of the world will die out.

31
Kim, head over to http://secstate.wa.gov and check out the Mock Election.

Kids voted to approve R-71 58-42.

Kids.

Think about that one and smile.
32
"This is going to be like interracial marriage and have to be decided in the courts."

Exactly. Civil rights are never "popular" in terms of majority of public support, and the role of government is to level the playing field by essentially stepping in when a populace clinging to primitive superstition and vulgar caste systems needs a swift kick in the ass.

I'm gonna have some drinks, and dream of a brave new world.
33
Loveschild,

Shame on you for gloating. You shame the rest of us.
34
i feel like crying
35
fuck fuck fuck!!!!! i'm so sad and pissed!!!!!!
36
Baconcat,

Thanks. Being a mom of two kids, who can't believe we adults would be so stupid as to vote on people's civil rights (cue eye rolling), I'm not surprised. :)

Hope springs eternal for future generations.

We are winning.
37
@19, @25:

All of the progressive/liberal/lefty Christians should be a little louder in denouncing the religious right...but it really isn't in the characters of Christian lefties to be out judging people and telling others what to do. Kind of a paradox.

Dan's comments on Countdown from a month or two ago merit watching. It was about lefty Christians shying away from religious expression because the religious right and their ilk have given it such a bad name.
38
@3 - Back off!

@9 - Fuck off. In the long run, you and your small-minded, bigoted types are going to lose this battle. It's time to accept the fact that not everyone on this planet is exactly like you. And thank God for that.
39
I -want- to cry. I always told myself, even if we lost here in WA, if Maine managed to make it, it would all be worth it. The first time we defended MARRIAGE from the public vote! But somehow when it's the other way around it just hurts too much.

Tomorrow I'll go to high school as usual, people will wander about their day, totally clueless. Abso-fucking-lutely clueless. We'll hear a few words about how 71 passed in Government, maybe, but they're not going to understand shit about what it's like being a third-class citizen.

There's a guy I like, too. A republican-turned-libertarian, believe it or not. He knows I like him. I'm one of four people that knows he's gay, a bit of a contrast to the entire school knowing about my own orientation. I feel like half of what I do, I'm doing for this guy. Unsure if he likes me back. He's flattered that I like him, apparently boosts his self-esteem loads, and we do talk pretty often. Even gave me a ride home once! But I digress. If he does feel the same way, that's too bad.

He wants to join the military out of high school.

So even if he did like me back? Fuck that. I can't destroy his future for him.

He's so passionate, it's one of the things I love about him. He'll get totally riled up about politics and his love for the country, but he isn't affected by stuff like this the same way I am. I wish I could appear as passionate as this guy is. I wish I could love my country. I -am- passionate when it comes to fighting for my own civil rights. And his. I don't know if anyone ever sees it, though.

Two steps forward, one step back. That's the gay rights dance. And it's really difficult to bear with.
40
@19

The simple fact is that GLBT anger at religion is justified, both historically and currently. Religion poisons everything.

Further, I take offense at you taking offense and telling Michael from Washington what he can and cannot say.
41
It always puzzles me that so many people seem completely unable to perceive when they're on the wrong side of history. Pattern recognition is such a basic, integral human capacity that being unable to learn from the recurrence of history really seems like a sad, strange failing.

This won't last, and in twenty years it'll seem backwards and fucked up that it ever happened at all.

Loveschild, you're a slaveowner. You're an anti-suffragist. You're a segregationist. How can you not see this? What is it that blinds you to the connections here?
42
@39 Every activist battle pretty much ever is two steps forward, one step back. That's the only way change happens.

I like to recommend two books to every queer activist kid in high school: "making gay history" by eric marcus and "strength to love" by martin luther king jr.. Those'll give you some perspective and encouragement moving forward.

Don't give up! (and good for you for being able to have compassion for libertarians, the most annoying people in the world.)
43
It's a fairly close result, and just a ripple in the continuation that will cause the entire NE to eventually have gay marriage or partnerships.

Next time do it during a Presidential Election year if you want to win.
44
@42 - yeah, they are fuckin annoying.
45
@25: good point. I jumped the gun on that one and appreciate you clarifying what I originally misread as a jab at Christianity as a whole.
@40: The fundamental principle of Christianity is love. Those who have decided to inject judgment into that are the ones poisoning "religion". Religion itself is not poisoned. Might I further add that I doubt you would've taken "offense" to someone of another religious affiliation responding in the way that I did.
46
@45 "The fundamental principle of Christianity is love."

I have yet to see that fundamental principle in action in my 36 years on this planet.

I don't buy that Christianity is love any more than I buy Islam is a religion of peace or Mormons' magic underpants protect them from evil or JW's standing-room-only Heaven concept. Christianity is a cult whose sole purpose is to justify the singling out those who are different and burn them at the stake - metaphorically and literally.

Religion poisons everything. Be a good person, live a good life helping others just to help others and not seek out some mystic reward/bribe, and when you're done, you're done - and if I'm wrong and your god punishes you lack of kissing his ass daily and living in his shadow of fear (oh, and love), well then at least you can thank me for not having to sit next to LC in Heaven for eternity.
47
My word, Loveschild. You are really dirty on the inside.

Nothing can make that stain clean, do you understand?
48
@ 17 - is what happened in NJ/VA Obama's fault, or is it the fault of the NJ/VA Democrats for not tapping those grassroots? Like, is he supposed to oversee every governor's race personally?
49
It's Obama's fault when a Democrat loses any election from here on out, and it's the homos fault when a Democrat wins. Haven't you been paying attention, Andrew?
50
Your country never ceases to disappoint, does it?
51
The fight for gay civil rights is a bartering situation. Like all deals many times the initial request is turned down but a lesser offer is put on the table. You want $10,000 for your car and I offer you $9k. That is how humans make negotiate.

And that is what we are witnessing here. Queers want gay marriage. The voters (who have no business dictating civil rights policy) rebut with civil unions.

Sadly, we are not discussing a 1974 El Camino or last year's Prius. We are talking about lives--mine and yours. Separate but equal is a fiction, not a deal. And anything less than full rights is really nothing at all.
52
@46, 40, 45... I strongly recommend reading (if you haven't) Mark Kurlansky's Nonviolence: 25 Lessons from the History…. It's a strong read, and has a good discussion on the "poisoning" of Christianity and the Ghandi/MLK ideals, along with other like subjects.
53
While I think there is a place for blaming the DNC and White House for the defeat in Maine, most of the blame belongs with the gay and progressive community for being so uncommitted and unwise about these campaigns. First thing, we should never push for gay marriage in a state like Maine where it is almost certain that voters will have the chance to repeal such a law through voter referendum. Maine is a state with an easy people's veto, that has overturned gay rights before. Gay marriage probably can't win on the ballot in any state today, except for possibly MA, and that is a huge POSSIBLY. What Einstein thought it would be a good state to push for gay marriage already? It was inevitable that it would be subject to a people's veto, likely it would be overturned by the people.

Until we are almost CERTAIN that voters will support gay marriage at the ballot box in states with easy referendum processes, we need to avoid legalizing gay marriage in those jurisdictions. Stop blaming everyone else and start placing the blame on our inability to work hard and commit to this cause. Although the No on One Campaign in Maine was better than California's No on Prop 8 campaign, it still failed to engage people to change their minds and produced lackluster, milquetoast ads that lacked the emotional punch of the other side. From now on, we need to go for the jugular in our ads and stop relying on soft "equality is good" ads. Use fear and anger in your ads, present the other side as the boogeyman, portray the other side as a scarey threat out to oppress the average person, not just gays.

Moreover, our lack of fervor, dedication, and zeal is why we CONTINUE to lose. The other side is more organized, zealous, sacrificial, and dedicated to their cause. Many gay people aren't even aware of the Maine struggle, most gay people didn't even donate money. Tons of gay and progressive volunteers should have flown or bussed into Maine to help out with the cause. We are most to blame.

Finally, while I respect Nate Silver's analysis, I think he is very overly optimistic in his predictions of when the majority of a state's population will support gay marriage. While religiosity is a factor in same-sex marriage support, it is not dispositive or totally predictive of popular sentiment on this issue. There are many non-religious anti-gay people. Moreover, his calculations don't account for the enthusiasm and organization gap on this issue. The ANTI-gay side is so much more devoted, zealot, certain, and sacrificial to their side than the pro-gay side, and Maine is another example. People came out from the crypt to vote against the gays. ANother thing is that there is in fact a "Bradley Effect" with gay issues. The anti-gay side usually performs about 5-9 points better on election day than they do in polling. And you can count on undecideds to go to the anti-gay side. Nate Silver needs to go back and recalculate his projections with more important factors such as the rural-urban ratio, age demographics, the ease of ballot initiatives/referenda, educational level, and Black population.

The point is we should avoid at all cost passing gay marriage in jurisdictions where there is an easy referendum or ballot initiative process. In the meantime, we should be out trying to change minds.
54
Loveschild, you are under the mistaken impression that this is in somehow settled. It's not. We will challenge this on every level. This just barely passed. More and more people are siding with us on civil rights issues.

Just think about it. In the 70's, police would with impunity, beat us, kill us, round us up, and arrest us. Now we have openly gay politicians being elected again and again.

We're not going to stop. We're not going to cease to exist. It is people like you who are going away. Make no mistake, you may have won this battle, and it was a setback for gay rights, but you will ultimately lose.

You will lose.
55
Finally! A site where people get that you don't put civil rights up for popular vote! Why don't law makers and politicians get this? Where the he*# has this country gone to? Black people would still be at the back of the bus if their rights had to be voted on by the racist, nazi-like, christian majority in this craphole of a country (or at least it is becoming such).
56
As a Maine resident, I would like to apologize on behalf of all my neighbors who voted to repeal gay marriage here, and on behalf of all my neighbors who would have voted to uphold it if they had bothered to vote. They make me very sad.
57
@17, @48:

The governor's race in New Jersey had *nothing* to do with Obama and everything to do with the state's economy and taxes. The state is drowning in debt, and over the past few years Corzine has made several very unpopular proposals to try to do something to actually try to pay some of it down. Of course, these proposals almost invariably involve some kind of tax and/or highway toll increase, and we already pay BY FAR the highest taxes of any state in the country. Nobody wants to pay more... but of course, nobody wants to cut any of the state services either, so the debt just keep piling up.

I can't say I'm devastated by Corzine losing, because he really was an ineffective governor--he wasn't able to get very much done even with a Democratic controlled legislature--but I do think he was far better than the guy who just won the election. Now we now have only a little over two months to get our legislature to pass and the governor to sign a full marriage equality law--any longer than that, and we'll have a homophobic prick in the state house who has made it very clear that he will do everything in his power to keep my gay friends and neighbors from getting full equal rights. The current governor has been saying he is in favor of marriage equality for a couple of years, and that he'll sign the law if the legislature passes it. There's been a lot of talk that he's been waiting until after the elections to push for it; I really am hoping that's the case, because otherwise it won't be happening any time soon.

We've had allegedly "everything but marriage" Civil Unions here in New Jersey for a couple of years now, but the reality is that "separate but equal" is never equal and Civil Unions are FAR from even coming close to being the equivalent of marriage.

Check out these two new commercials from Garden State Equality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbtXHihdN…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yPbt4vU…

I know this won't matter much to most of the people who read Slog, but we need to get full marriage equality passed in New Jersey NOW, otherwise it will be at least four more years before there'e even the slightest hope. If we can get a law passed before Corzine leaves office, it will be very hard to overturn the law, because we don't have voter initiatives in New Jersey, and to even get an amendment on the ballot, 3/5ths of each house has to approve it first.
58
Loveschild, you have embraced the master's religion too well. But the master did not worship Jesus Christ; he worshipped power. He worshipped arbitrary authority over others. This is the religion you were given, and which you have embraced.

It makes you a vile monster.
59
I am so fucking tired of this, NOM and Yes just lie and break campaign laws with impunity and it works.

It's time to get the donor lists for Yes and NOM. 47% is not enough to win the vote but it is enough to financially devastate the businesses of every person that donated to this campaign of lies. We have played nice for far too long, it's time to treat these people exactly like they treat us and start treating them like the social pariahs that they are.
60
I think I have a crush on stevema
61
The people of Maine have spoken, because they were told the truth and not lies...

But how can this night be truly wonderful when same sex couples still have rights in Washington, and Hutchison went down in flames...? Sweet victory seems to always be just barely out of reach doesn't it?
62
@ 9 You are a real dunce, do you know know that? You try to come off as some mystical religious character but you sound like an ignorant fool who has done too many drugs. If you are going to try to talk politics or religion, get off your subjective high horse for once.
63
@ 9 You are a real dunce, do you know know that? You try to come off as some mystical religious character but you sound like an ignorant fool. If you are going to try to talk politics or religion, get off your subjective high horse for once.
64
I've never been more embarassed to be a Mainer. Just to clarify, however, virtually all of southern Maine (where I live) voted resoundingly to uphold equal rights. But Maine's primarily a rural, redneck, ignorant Xtian state, and those hillbillies ruined it. And just to be clear, the anti-marriage activists lied through their teeth throughout the campaign and tried to frame it as a debate about "protecting the children". Fucking scum, and I hope their kids all turn out to be queer.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I'm fucking pissed right now.
65
@ 9 Not only do you sound like you have issues, but you obviously are pushing someone else's agenda. You are like a puppet for the right. If I were you I would get back to my roots. I would not be representing some religion that was forced on my ancestors. I am Norwegian and I sure as hell don't fall for the mainstream Xian thing, if anything I am more into the mystical aspects and history of religion(s). I embrace people instead of a hateful ideal, I love all people regardless of their sexuality or race. I would rather love a group of friendly gays than some phony religion meant to divide society.
66
@ 9 @ 9 Not only do you sound like you have issues, but you obviously are pushing someone else's agenda. You are like a puppet for the right. If I were you I would get back to my roots. I would not be representing some religion that was forced on my ancestors. I am Norwegian and I sure as hell don't fall for the mainstream Xian thing, if anything I am more into the mystical aspects and history of religion(s). I embrace people instead of a hateful ideal, I love all people regardless of their sexuality or race. I would rather love a group of friendly gays than some phony religion meant to divide society.
67
My bad- the slog is posting slower than usual today.
68
Damn, I was really hoping for this because it would shut up LC. However, R-71 should take some of the wind out of her sails.
69
It took almost 100 years from the time the first state legalized interracial marriage until the Supreme Court decided Loving v. Virginia. At that time 17 states still had anti-interracial marriage laws on their books. Moreover, national sentiment was still solidly (2/3rds) against interracial marriage, even in states where it had been legal for a long time. If today's conservatives were around back then with their referendum/initiative strategies, interracial marriage would have still been illegal in 50 states when Loving v. Virginia was decided. Instead they just groused and complained.

Unfortunately, today's Supreme Court is a reactionary bunch of bigots, and today's conservatives have teamed up with the "libertarian" rich folks to fund referendum to repeal/pass whatever suits their narrow interests.

So it's going to be a loooong fight for gay marriage. I predict this will require something like the Civil Rights Act with an LBJ-like figure as the President before there's any mass movement. Luckily, we're obviously "close" in a bunch of states (going down by 2-3% is nothing). In the next 5-10 years, if we can use gay marriage and other liberal causes to rally people under 30 and new voters to our side/vote the way the righties used opposition to abortion, etc. - we'll be seeing gay marriage passed in 15-20 states.
70
@23 Don't be so dramatic. And the rest of you losers who feel like crying, get the fuck over yourselves. What do you do when you fall of your horse? You get the fuck back on. God damn pity party, the lot of you. Gay marriage is a historic inevitability, now quit your bitching and get back in the ring.
71
Sorry 23, I meant 22.
72
Interesting. Only .77% of Maine is black people.
73
Cats @ 64

"".. a rural, redneck, ignorant Xtian state, and those hillbillies ruined it....Fucking scum, and I hope their kids all turn out to be queer.""

yeap...if their kids turn out to be queer and happy, selfconfident, loving, responsible, etc. gay people they are very lucky.
I am afraid that their kids will all turn out to be carbon copies of THEM. Thats a scare.
74
Stella, what is your fucking point?
75
25
just like most people can tell the difference between regular homosexuals and the kind who masquerade as Priests or youth pastors or Scout Masters so they can prey on teenage boys
76
26
Of course!
Yeah us!!
Not being able to marry your domestic partner is brutal. And totally trumps 400 years of Slavery.
77
Maine was a setback, and i want to cry, but the struggle goes on-
Thirty One steps back, Zero steps forward.
We're getting closer!!!
78
Maine is overwhelmingly Democratically controlled. This issue certainly trumps politics, and judging by the people I talk to around here, gay marriage or anything else "gay" doesn't stand a chance in Maine.
We do like our dope and welfare, if you followed any of the other ballot issues in Maine though.
I tried to talk to people, in a civil manner, here into seeing this as a civil rights issue, but even the most otherwise intelligent people just don't want to accept being gay as anything other than a perverted choice that some wierd people make.
Sorry. Better luck somewhere else.
80
People keeping saying that equality for gays is inevitable. They forget that 1920s Berlin was one of the most liberal cities in Europe for both gays and Jews. Nothing is inevitable. If we are going to achieve (and hold onto) equality, we will likely always have to fight like hell because we will always be a minority, an other. I used to think otherwise. But then I see how much my 5 year old nephew hates -- HATES! -- to play with "girl toys." Gender -- and gender differentiation -- is built into our DNA. And it likely always will be, at least if history, culture, and the very much gender-oriented behavior of our closest relatives in the animal kingdom are any indication. Bottom line: gays will have to fight for equality -- and prepare for all that entails -- just as every other group who's been historically marginalized has had to do. Just ask the Jews, the blacks, women, labor, etc.
81
Gender -- and gender differentiation -- and gender identity -- is built into our DNA because it is necessary for the survival of the species.
Why do homosexuals pretend it is not and why should society institutionalize and legitimize relationships and behavior that violate biological necessity?
82
Genes associated with homosexuality in males are also associated with higher fertility rates in their female relatives. Therefore, these genes cause a NET INCREASE in fertility of the species. That's why homosexuality persists in all human societies.
83
@80 - good point, always worthy of mentioning. Nobody will give any minority freedoms , political and social rights without a fight, often bloody one.

@81 - why is that ,Get a Clue? Extreme sports, certain substances and booze, many forms of entertainment and various hobbies are violating biological necessity.Actually they are often pretty dangerous and harmful to people.You dont want to delegalise Six Flags or Stolichnaya?

Strictly speaking in terms of reproduction, getting higher education causes women have less children - should we ban schools and colleges ?