Comments

1
That is a phenomenal idea. At least from this straight girl's perspective. I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks and how this could be publicized/moved forward...
2
Possible downside: Engaged couples can be some of the most annoying, self-absorbed people on the face of the planet.
3
@2: All the more reason to help speed things up!
4
Yay Ben!!

I love it when the Slog-pot keeps on bubblin' and bubblin' and sometimes something AWESOME pops out!!!

:-D
5
Possible upside.

Engaged couples spend lots of money - this could help rebuild America's economies, especially in the cities.
6
Nice idea, Ben. Basic Rights Oregon has the engagement idea as well.
8
Such a simple idea, and yet so brilliant. Let's do it!

Especially since so many of us are already engaged and waiting.
9
Such a simple idea, and yet so brilliant. Let's do it!

Especially since so many of us are already engaged and waiting.
10
The problem here is that engagement has no legal backing at all, and wildly varying social interpretations in our society. Setting a date of "as soon as it's legal" isn't really a change in the status quo for couples who already plan that.

I'm not seeing how this is an effective way to do anything.
11
@10 Raise awareness.

Terminology matters. Everyone knows what "engaged" means. Added bonus, since there is no legal or religious baggage attached to the term, no one can cry about it being an attack on traditional marriage (not that that will stop them, but it'll sound awfully silly).

And yes, it's a really good idea.
12
@ Sargon - Don't forget that The Homosexual Agenda has been edited as a separate volume specifically for the pre-school and kindergarten set. In that particular edition, our intent to take over the world and tear all the remaining Heterosexualist families to shreds is cleverly disguised beneath lessons about chocolate milk, unicorns, and the tooth fairy. Because we ARE thinking of the children. Gotta get at them as early as possible.

And I think Ben's engagement idea is awesome.
13
This is an idea to use as leverage with the diamond lobby. If gay couples get engaged they'll be a whole new market to sell overpriced rocks to, so maybe they'll throw some blood-money at politicians who are down with equal marriage rights.
14
Remember, when shopping for diamonds for your engagement eschew blood diamonds from places that don't allow gay marriage and insist your sweetie buys a gay-marriage-friendly Canadian diamond.
15
And think of the business it could generate in engagement parties and bachelor parties.
16
it's a fucking ridiculous idea because it basically says "I will do nothing to change the world until bigots decide i can be equal." It's the equivalent of black people in the South telling the KKK "Why won't you allow me to ride at the front of the bus? I am tired. Won't you let me ride at the front of the bus?" You don't get rights by asking for them, you get rights by demanding them, by protesting for them, by sitting-in for them, by stopping business as usual until you get them.

Historian Howard Zinn put it best:

We are citizens. We must not put ourselves in the position of looking at the world from [the politicians'] eyes and say, "Well, we have to compromise, we have to do this for political reasons." We have to speak our minds.

This is the position that the abolitionists were in before the Civil War, and people said, "Well, you have to look at it from Lincoln's point of view." Lincoln didn't believe that his first priority was abolishing slavery. But the anti-slavery movement did, and the abolitionists said, "We're not going to put ourselves in Lincoln's position. We are going to express our own position, and we are going to express it so powerfully that Lincoln will have to listen to us."

And the anti-slavery movement grew large enough and powerful enough that Lincoln had to listen. That's how we got the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments.

That's been the story of this country. Where progress has been made, wherever any kind of injustice has been overturned, it's been because people acted as citizens, and not as politicians. They didn't just moan. They worked, they acted, they organized, they rioted if necessary.

17
a diamond-encrusted shovel either real or imagined would be a nice symbol... on a few levels.
18
@16 - party pooper. People like you used to be in ACT UP and were always joy killers.
19
@16: You're thinking "instead of" rather than the reality of "in addition to", which is what this is. Remember, Harvey Milk turned the vote around with visibility, and it wouldn't hurt here to do the same. Come out to everyone as someone who intends on getting married in the future. Let people know that real people would be harmed by a ban.

While at the same time protesting.

Unless you can only manage one thing at once, in which case I feel terribly sorry for you and yours.
20
The most striking thing to me would be people introducing their partners as "my fiance."
21
@18 you are right about @16...

It isn't a "do nothing" campaign at all --- it's getting engaged as part of the socially accepted method of publicly announcing a future partnership.

Do-nothing is the well-intentioned but pointless straight people who say they won't get married until gay people can.

I love it! I only wish I had someone to pop the question to :0(
22
@ 14 - Bingo! Hear that, Canadian diamond companies? You can make the check out to "Engagement Project", care of Ben @ the Stranger.

@ 16 - See #11. Consciousness Raising. It worked when the women burned their bras in the 60's, no reason it can't work for teh gays in the 21st century.
23
I love this idea. It esp puts the focus on the partnership rather than sex (and wiggling around in excrement etc).
24
And it doesn't have to extend to just gay couples. I see no reason why straight couples and queers in hetero couples couldn't send out engagements which say "as soon as marriage equality is passed in our state or nation" as their date to express solidarity.
25
Personally, I love the idea - then, by the rules of decorum, you have to invite the Fiancee. Doesn't matter WHERE they get married, that's not your decision as a host.

Plus, makes it really easy to announce in the paper.

Heck, this could rescue a lot of daily papers.
26
I hope I don't sound like a party pooper, too, but I'm not sure I follow: Where would these engagements be registered and tallied? How would anyone know how many couples are waiting in a given city or state?

A website dedicated to registering one's intentions would be dismissed as unverifiable unless it included full names and contact info. I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable with that.
27
Has my vote.
28
Then register for tasteful gifts at all the major chains that will let you tag it with that caveat.
29
16
Abolition was a small minority view, even in the North, at the beginning of the Civil War,
Had the war been about freeing the slaves the North would not have supported it.
Lincoln's genius was that he was able to keep the abolitionists from destroying support for the war in the early years, then, as the war progressed bring the entire nation around to the view that the war must be about freeing the slaves as well as preserving the union.

Fervent hot idealism more often than not
burns down and destroys
rather than enlightens.
It is political wisdom
that effects actual change,
not Acting Up.

The Homosexual movement has no MLK for inspiration,
no LBJ to get laws passed.

For now we'll have to settle for Savage's immature assholery
and Obama's inept backboneless floundering...
30
@20, ftw!
31
@28 - which would encourage the stores to support gay marriage so these registered items would get purchased, not just sit there waiting for some undeterminable date.
32
I happened to see this shortly after I proposed to my girlfriend this morning. I guess I'm just prescient!
33
@32: Congrats!
34
There's no reason to put the weddings on hold until the state catches up.

Get engaged, set a date, invite the family, get married, wait for the state to catch up.

The state doesn't forbid us from getting married. It won't recognize our marriages, but it doesn't forbid them, either. The strength and existence of my marriage is not something for the state to decide.

The down side of this particular idea is that if you participate by waiting, you willingly politicize your own marriage. Is your marriage about your union with your partner, or is it about politics?

Go ahead and marry each other now. Include your families. It's every bit as powerful to have so many thousands of married couples whose marriages are not recognized as it is to have a bunch of people waiting to get married until the state acknowledges them.

When the state catches up, if it ever does, get a piece of paper without a ceremony. The state doesn't deserve to be celebrated when/if it ever catches up. When the state is finally willing to recognize my marriage, my attitude will be, "about time, fucking retard."

Churches of conscience are beginning to perform wedding ceremonies for all congregants, gay or straight, but refusing to sign a state certificate for anyone since the state discriminates where many churches do not. The secular equivalent is pretty plain, too. The state doesn't get to decide on the legitimacy or existence of your marriage. If you want to get married, do it.

Please wait...

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