Blogs Mar 1, 2010 at 8:23 am

Comments

1
"... a fetus the size of the period on this sentence."

The fetal stage commences at the beginning of the 9th week. At the start of the fetal stage, the fetus is typically about 1.2 inches in length.

2
wow-
there is no limit to the patheticness of Liberals.
months spent blaming the GOP because they can't pass a health care 'plan' that is shit that the public nor even 50 of their own Senators support, and now they are blaming the unborn.
3
speaking of twisting language, framiing the pro-Abortion position as 'choice' is Orwellian.
in fact it is about denying responsibility for a choice already made.
of course, Responsibility is a dirty word in the Liberal Theology....
4
although we'll have to admit that the children of the Liberal Big Tent are, by and large, better off dead....
5
Dan,
when you talked DJs mom out of an abortion what did you save?
6
Babies are not Acorns.
7
Millions of unwanted and starving and abused and abandoned children wander this earth and they want to force more. They want to use the government to enforce their ridiculous religion on the rest of us. And some stupid politicians want to help them do it. Progressives are far too timid in fighting back. They need to frame the fight in terms of protecting liberty.
8
Wow, anonymous loser, this really stung you, didn't it? Look at all your posts. Hahahahahahahaha...
9
Blah blah blah

"personal responsibility"

blah blah blah

"American People"

blah blah blah

"Liberals"

blah blah blah

"Barack Hussain Mohammad Jihad Obama"

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

(repeat from beginning)
10
Polling on how USians think about abortion is a lot more complicated than that. They support legal abortion in principle but also think it's a bad thing. And they oppose many particular procedures, and are all over the map on when it should and shouldn't be allowed. A lot depends on how the question is asked by the pollster. And that doesn't even take into account the outright hypocrites who have had or would have an abortion but want to make it illegal anyway.

So yes, politicians are timid, and to be sure, "framing" is still a hip buzzword. But there is plenty of room to carve out all sorts of policies from the contradictory set of opinions that the electorate collectively holds.
11
Occasionally abortion comes later in a harsher form called capital punishment - oh, well.
12
If the religious wouldn't fight birth control and sex education tooth and nail, I might believe that they actually want to stop or reduce abortions.
14
Framing abortion as 'choice' is Orwellian? Really? No one is coming to tear the fetus out of anyone's womb against their will. A society which dictates what a person can and cannot do with their body is far more Orwellian.

If you want fewer abortions, rather than making them illegal (which forces them underground, where the abortion is far more likely to take the life of the mother as well), make sex-ed sex-positive. Teach youths that there are ways to enjoy their bodies that significantly lower the risk of pregnancy and transmission of disease; that would lower the number of abortions. Of course the anti-abortionists don't like that because it teaches youths that sexuality is a good thing and isn't just for married heterosexual couples making babies.
15
Wow. Trollsplosion, and so early in the workday....anyway, Neil makes a very salient point about the dearth of post-natal care.
16
A recognizable human life is the same size of a period in a sentence. According to doctor dan.
17
It's just that the issue of abortion has this 'eccentric' liberal stigma attached to it, and even though it's crucially important and life-or-death, we find talking about it embarrassing and would rather people thought that tax cuts are way more important for us, and abortion is just... you know, a small thingee that's not worth standing up for.
18
There are only two possible ethical views of abortion: either a black-and-white view that abortion is always uniformly wrong, or that abortions exist on a continuum from barely, microscopically wrong (i.e. terminating a 5-day old fertilized blastocyst) to hugely, dramatically wrong (i.e. strangling a newborn with its umbilical cord). The problem with most pro-lifers is that they, like most sane adults, actually exist in the latter camp but won't admit it. We pro-choicers need to show the pro-lifers, scary as it is, what's actually going on in their own heads.
19
Ever heard of a fire-adapted forest? Your metaphor is suffering, ecologically-speaking.
20
@16: Loveschild, you should really keep your head down before someone does the verbal equivalent of stuffing your noggin up your nose.
How is an embryo (they used the word "fetus" incorrectly, yeah) a "recognizable human life", anyway? Does it have the ability to live even for a second outside the womb? Does it have a brain? Is he alive or dead? Has he thoughts within his head? Functionally, an embryo or even an early-term fetus is still just a part of its mother; its genetic distinctness means nothing, as tumors are also genetically distinct from their victim.
An embryo relies on the mother's willingness to volunteer her body and the nutrients she provides; her right to her own body trumps any perceived right to continue existing that the embryo may be accorded.
Go ahead, keep digging. But stop and tell me if you discover a brown leather wallet with a picture of Ronald Reagan in a banana suit in it; my dog's been a bit funny lately.
21
Am I the only one confused by the waffle tirade that dominates the remainder of the Sun-Times article, or am I just missing something? Wtf waffles.
22
If you can't see the connection between abortion and waffles, I don't think you should be in this corner of the intertubes.
23
but, BABIES!! Also, MURDER!!! Personal responsibility MURDER babies holocaust why mommy? Etc etc.

Repeat forever.
24
So--it doesn't make you look less like a troll to post several comments in rapid succession anonymously. In fact--it makes you look exactly like a troll. Just put the whole tirade in one comment--save us the time spent scrolling past it.
25
Just to clarify, ALL of us are "pro-life", but some of us are ALSO pro-choice while others are also anti-choice.

So stop doing them a favor and calling anti-choice advocates "pro-lifers". It's a biased and misleading term they (cleverly) latched onto, but that doesn't mean pro-choice advocates need to play their game!

Whether a woman chooses to continue her unplanned pregnancy or not is her private business; certainly not the Government'sβ€”or anyone else's.
26
I don't know if I can handle another round of pro vs. anti abortion arguments already.

Dan's last one, about black abortions and slavery, is still chugging along.
27
I have a theory about our anonymous troll. It's obviously one person, someone who is not interested in an actual discussion. I think it's because he/she is incapable of doing so. I think he/she's a member of some rightwing nutjob local area church, and has volunteered to troll "liberal" blog sites. They have a little list (which 9 pointed out) drawn up for them by their pastor, and they just keep repeating those points.

They're not interested in anyone else's opinion. I seriously doubt they actually care about any other humans outside their out clique. They labor under the delusion that spouting off pre-packaged talking points somehow helps their cause. Maybe they do this because they're only interested in taunting/insulting/verbally shaming those they hate.

So, anonymous troll, I'm on to you. If you can demonstrate to me that you have any amount of respect and decency, I may think differently of your kind. All you are doing right now is proving that the right-wing are people are immature, unsophisticated rubes who prefer to hate and ridicule.
28
As for responsibility, many pregnancies are terminated because the mother has responsibilities to her pre-existing children. It would be irresponsible to have another mouth to feed and likely lose their job in the process.
29
@10-
Polling on abortion is complicated because, for most Americans, it's not an either/or proposition, even if you're solidly 'pro-life'. Not one 'lifer' can exclude the fact there are circumstances where they'd support an abortion. Nor does every 'choicer' agree with abortion.
I'm a 'choicer' because no one has the right to tell another human what to do with their body. But as a father I'm repulsed by it, because my kids, who are everything to me, were once the size of a period.
It's all a continuum, but the religious like to define everything in terms of black/white. Reality works a bit differently.
30
It really is a shame that this issue has dissolved (here and other place, this isn't a slag on Slog) to YAY Life or YAY Abortion. I believe that the vast majority of us "choicers" believe exactly that, that we should have the choice when faced with potentially devastating circumstances. But we're painted by the opposition as killin'-happy executioners.

I don't think you'll find many, if any, pro-choice advocates who think that abortion is a reasonable birth-control choice. It's a last-ditch, worst case solution, and I think that any woman who's made that choice would agree. And to be fair we probably paint all the pro-lifers with a fascist 1984-esqe brush.

But really at the end of the day for most of us it all boils down to a very simple principal laid down by the great Theodore Sturgeon:
"I'll live by your rules in your house, and you can live by your rules in my house; but I'll be damned before I live by your rules in my house"

Sorry kids, my house, my rules.

Please wait...

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