The climate always changes. The question is what effect these most recent changes will have. That remains up in the air, regardless of what Al Gore says.

I am constantly optimistic about the prospect of human extinction. It's just a pity we had to bring so many other species down with us.

Warming or no warming, it's still colder than it's been for just about the entire history of the planet.

#3 was that supposed to be relevant?

@3,

As compared to what? When the planet was still pretty much just lava?

@1,

It's not just Al Gore.

one of the problems with jet fuel isn't the CO2 emissions, it's the other kerosene distallant byproducts that are emitted at high altitudes which cause 25 to 400 times more damage than the CO2 or even C0 emissions.

@3 has no idea what a global temperature mean is. the temp in my freezer is really cold but the rest of the fridge might melt fast if I leave the fridge door open, which might cause the freezer to go into super-cooling mode. net result my food still spoils.

(sources for @6 include ISO 14001 docs and Green Guide for Business)

@3
You might have noticed that we didn't live in very much of the history of the planet. We have adapted pretty well to our current climate. How fast do you think we're prepared to adapt to a totally new climate? Possibly a climate where we can't grow the crops we're used to growing, where we might not be able to grow anything in the places we're currently growing them, where the things at the bottom of the food chain can't survive so the things further up in the food chain starve.

Sure, we can live in a world that's a few degrees warmer but can the things we eat live in that world?

I'm going to enjoy watching earth become unable to support life!

The real shit thing about climate change: once/if things start going so badly that everyone's convinced it's a problem, it will likely be too late and we'll just have to ride it out.

This evidence supports my theory that the dinosaurs farted themselves into extinction.

OMG 10 you're right! Investing in wind turbines, solar panels, biomass and countless other green technologies will grind our economy to a halt. I never looked at it from your perspective before but clearly you're right because all of those things build and maintain themselves. Nobody would ever be employed again.

Alternatively, your doomsday scenario could be the one that we should all ignore because any sensible person sees huge opportunity in a new industry that will employ countless people at all levels of education and experience. Regardless of global warming we should be investing heavily in green technology to help our economy. Or, we could keep burning oil and coal and just let Asia overtake us in this industry just like they have in TV's, Stereo's, Car's ...

@10 I'm still scared of killer African bees btw.

OMG 10 you're right! Investing in wind turbines, solar panels, biomass and countless other green technologies will grind our economy to a halt. I never looked at it from your perspective before but clearly you're right because all of those things build and maintain themselves. Nobody would ever be employed again.

Alternatively, your doomsday scenario could be the one that we should all ignore because any sensible person sees huge opportunity in a new industry that will employ countless people at all levels of education and experience. Regardless of global warming we should be investing heavily in green technology to help our economy. Or, we could keep burning oil and coal and just let Asia overtake us in this industry just like they have in TV's, Stereo's, Car's ...

Wow, this is just like "Mother of Storms" by John Barnes!
http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Storms-John…

@1 ... "The climate always changes".

Well, on an Earth-evolutionary scale: yes, you're right.

But in terms of the evolution of human civilization, it hasn't changed terribly much. We've built up everything we have right now in the incredibly short span of 10,000 years, from agriculture to the Internet. That 10,000 year window of time was relatively calm, climatically speaking. We've had a good run of it.

It should be fairly clear that the climate stability of the last 10,000 years is coming to an end. More CO2, CH4, and importantly, H2O (from all the melting sea ice and glaciers) means more weather unpredictability --- basically more and hotter inputs into the weather system seems to be resulting in more chaotic weather patterns.

That happy window that allowed us to spread agriculture, and then construct incredible technology, is now closing. C'est la vie, but we'd be wise to take precautions, like increasing the number of P-patch type of urban food gardens and "food forests", and figuring out good water catchment systems. Especially here in Seattle.

Also, on the topic of "the economy", you have to realize that we need to alter the rules governing our currency system. This "Positive-Interest" currency we use is very troublesome. (1) It is "backed" by debt, and so has no "real" value. Therefore people have to remain in debt for the economy to continue to function. (2) It requires constant expansion, meaning prices always go up (unless there is a soul-crushing recession/depression and value is lost - which is damaging.) (3) It requires a certain level of exploitation (of low-paid workers, or low-cost natural resources) in order to give profit to those at the top. (4) There is no way it will be able to effectively deal with the "Age Wave" of increasing older people, and fewer younger people to support them.

We urgently need to investigate introducing additional currencies into our lives. Not all-out replacing the current ones, but ADDING currencies that use "Negative-Interest", or even no-interest "Mutual Credit" currencies.

These things have existed before, and they deserve to be re-examined. In fact, they already are.

@20
I know it's conventional wisdom that we're subsidizing oil companies and other fossil fuels but I've never been able to actually find the numbers on this. Aside from things like public roads to make driving easier can you give me any evidence of it?

In the end, no matter what you do, you'll be dead.

Here's an idea: Let's all (and by 'all', I mean all people on the planet - we're all in this together, right?) be conscious of this earth under our feet, let's develop all the green technology we can, let's be aware that there are better ways to accomplish our goals than the ones we implemented way back in the 19th century. Let's NOT build nor drive giant polluting vehicles, let's reward companies that clean up their act... etc etc...

It will take a lot of peer pressure for countries like China to get on board with ideas like these but I'm an optimist..

Let's do all we can, in other words, to be aware of and minimize our impact on this planet. And while we're doing all this, let's not panic. Because panic is a totally sucky thing that puts wrinkles in our faces and prevents us from doing our best work.

Wouldn't that be a swell way to proceed?

@25
The Chinese are just emulating us. We've shown a terrible example of what to do when you're successful and they're doing what we did. If we show a better way forward they will likely follow our example.

@23

Keep an eye on those multi billion dollar aircraft carriers in the Straight of Hormuz, and tell me what interests are being protected by the US military.

Haha, the usual idiots have trotted out their usual idiocy on this one.

"The weather always changes." Nice. Real slick there, chief. So somehow that means we're not changing it now? Somehow that means we suddenly should just "do nothing"?

That seems perfectly reasonable. To a fifth grader.

Well done, Grant, thanks for the post.

@10
The fact that you write off "1, perhaps even 2" degrees as part the pile of sarcasm you're bringing to the table immediately dismisses you from the conversation. Biology 101.

@23 It's indirect subsidy through tax breaks mostly, with a dash of policy loopholes. Adding that might make the google search that you're asking someone to do on your behalf even easier.

Our economic system (and by proxy our culture) is not compatible with long term (>200 years) human life on this planet. We have chosen to live, as a species, in what can only be called in evolutionary terms the cliched 'blink of an eye'. This however, is only "bad" in that we are ensuring the demise of the generations to come. The planet will go on, species will come and go (provided that there is still the energy of the sun), we just have to choose whether or not we want to be around. And from the looks of it we'd rather just be emperor for a day.

We are the minute-man in the proverbial gang bang that is earth.

Also, @23:

Here you go. Peruse the links in that article for some information on the subject.

You can always Google it too. It's pretty obvious it's the case.

There's a lot of weird ones too that aren't really "subsidies" like: what would the geopolitical situation of the Middle East and Africa be right now if we didn't need oil so badly? Or, how much would it have cost to build highways if the government hadn't cleared neighborhoods by eminent domain? Shit like that.

Everything's connected, the whole "individual choice, free of government influence" explanation for the existing economics of suburbia, fossil fuel dependence, and energy technology is pretty much a myth.

You know, after the Rapture, you're going to need someone to take care of your dogs and cats and any children or other family members that haven't raptured yet.

So why not buy insurance for it?

For only $99,999 a year, you can have the peace of mind knowing that a non-violent vegan Buddhist is making sure your old infirm grandma is taken care of until she gets raptured, and the kids get to school on time and given a proper meal.

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Well @28, most of the climate change deniers really don't give a shit what happens, because in fact they most likely will be dead by the time the most disastrous effects come into play, after which, hey, it's the next generation's problem.

Africanized bees are no joke. I've been chased by the jerks - they are unreal. And they do occasionally kill someone. More often then the European variety.

A really big book of matches. problem solved. Hey, who farted?

yeah, but how do you get the matches to light underwater under extreme pressure?

Thoughtful posts by treacle @21, merry @25, ib+ @29, doesurmindglow @30. Oh, and Root @16. Good to see that folks are so tuned in to the big picture.

I'm just hoping that Seattle's going to be a good place to be as we enter this carbon-constrained, climated-changed world.

How much warming emissions were caused by releasing this report? Why does Al Gore want to make money? Fucking douche

@28 Actually, I said the climate always changes, not the weather always changes. Ice ages, medieval warm period, blah blah blah. Shit happens, nothing stays the same. If you think humanity can stop the inevitable, good luck with that. Industrial activity certainly contributes to a point, but the combined co2 output is but a fraction of what the earth can possibly unleash in a bad weekend. The eruption of Mount Pinatubo decreased the global average temp by 1 degree in 1991. So, yeah.
I live a pretty carbon neutral life, I am a transit user, i recycle, compost, all that shit. Cause, hell it can't hurt. But in the long run it doesn't matter, cause the earth will do what the earth will do. man will adapt and go on.
However, if I thought climate change meant the inevitable extinction of smug self satisfied jack asses like yourself, then I would buy a Hummer tomorrow.

SARS! KILLER BEES! BIRD FLU!

@32 once again... How the fuck did I become a denier? Where in my post did I deny climate change? Let me get this straight, f one diverges at all from the party line they automatically become a right wing kook?

Wonderful to see the left can be as dogmatic and fundamentalist as the right. Keep up the good work!

Can't we harvest this methane instead of letting it out into the atmosphere? I'm just curious.