Can't two dudes love each other without being gay?
Did you read the poem?
"Joe liked Jeff and Jeff liked Joe"
"Pal'd together down below"
"Each one blowed the other's stuff"

Well that's just dirty talk!
Thanks for finding this, Paul.
Well, two homosexual cowboys certainly PROVE that America is not, and never has been, a conservative religious country.
Obviously we need to outlaw religion and outlaw conservatism and make everybody get a gay marriage.
Yippy Yi Yo!!!
have you ever read "Gay New York" by George Chauncey?
Paul - though I will agree with you, that those claiming America has always been a conservative, religious country should read this, it would matter not. Like anything else "gay," they simply ignore facts and still believe there's something not right with gays. Stubborn and ignorance. An ugly human condition for so many.

Btw - great poem, all the same. Thanks for sharing.
no no fraulein-
we're convinced!
we've seen The Light!
in fact,
in the interest of historical accuracy
we demand that the nation be renamed:
the "HomoLiberal Qunited States of Gaymerica"
The anencephalic leotard @ #5

Bitter a bit? The point is that gay/homos/lesbians have been there as long as humans have existed and they will continue to exist long after you have become a moldering pile of ashes. All the "conservative and religious" will never be able to eradicate teh gaes.

In the pre-European cultures of the Americas the 'gay' members were considered healers and visionaries and rather than referred to in a derogatory way they were called dreamwalkers, because they believed that they were able to see into the future and bring back what they learned into the present.

Why do you think most fashion designers and trend-setters are men?

Oh, and fuQk you...
This proves America has always been a religious, conservative country. This also proves there have also been accepting, liberal, artists.

Where's the news?

Other than that, an interesting find. Yay!
Thanks, Paul!
We need to get pollsters up to date.
Gallup must be forbidden
from asking Americans if they are Conservatives-
(this is not a conservative country, after all)
The 40% of Americans who self identify as Conservative
in the future will have to choose between
More Liberal or

Yeah, teh gey has been around at least as long as Sodom (speaking of moldering pile of ashes....)-

au contraire, mon frere-
we are very impressed.

we thought Nothing could top the cowboy story
but the visionary fashion designer thing has our head swimming.....
@ 5,8,12 and 13 (all the same bible molesting troll- not fooling anyone douchebag)

You bible thumpers clearly take things too literally.

Need to take a lesson in sarcasm...
Lesson # 1 "Why do you think most fashion designers and trend-setters are men?' = SARCASM.

Yes S&G existed archeologically, but can you PROVE that GOD destroyed it because of the gays?
And if they were gay, why did Lot offer his virgin daughters to the men of S&G for sex?
And after said destruction of S&G why did Lot get drunk and impregnate both his daughters?

This, the most god-like family of S&G...

Sodom? Sodom is no more real than the Bottle City of Kandor.
Aw, yay! Thanks Paul!

not any more, it's not ;)

the point is not to fool, my good man-
it is to enlighten...

You tight ass homos clearly take things too literally.

(and need to take a lesson in sarcasm...)
This reminds me yet again of the circa-Brokeback Mountain cartoon by George Booth in the New Yorker.

Two ancient cowboys are rocking on a front porch. The one asks the other: "Were we gay?"
Paul found some verse of the Old West
And quoted one that he liked best.
From this he made a timely point
An' put some noses out of joint.
There's them's that just don't want to hear
A challenge to beliefs held dear
Not logic, fact, nor truth applies
They prefer their cherished lies.

"(and need to take a lesson in sarcasm...)"

I think you have confused the word sarcasm in your post with word stupidity or ignorance...

And what's all this racket you're makin' bout' "tight ass homos"?

Yes, and thank you!

1892. Amazing. What else is in that book?
21 you're being too hard on yourself....
am I the only one that actually reads that as two straight male friends who loved each other? I don't get any overt homosexuality from it. Am I just missing it or are you reading way too much into it? Either way, I like the poem.

"(and need to take a lesson in sarcasm...)"

I think you have confused the word sarcasm in your post with word stupidity or ignorance...

And what's all this racket you're makin' bout' "tight ass homos"?

Yes, and thank you!
@ 24 - Could go either way.
@17 Nor was it ever. Sodom only existed in the same place as Zenn-La, Bedrock, Middle-Earth, and Sesame Street.
@28 *Two thumbs down and a raspberry*
Wow. This blows my mind.

And yes #6, I've read George Chauncey's book. In fact, I've met him and fucked at least one of the guys thanked in it.

But still.... wow. Thanks, Paul. This poem still kinda blows my mind.
@24 I agree. There is nothing in the poem to suggest that these guys are gay.
"Joe liked Jeff and Jeff liked Joe"
"Pal'd together down below"
"Each one blowed the other's stuff"

If we had 100% certainty that these phrases carried the sexual connotation in 1892 as they do over 110 years later (which I find highly doubtful), then you might have something.

Until then, I think you're reading a bit much into it. I'm almost 100% certain the last line doesn't mean what everyone here thinks it does.

That would be like hearing the last line of the Flintstones cartoon opening sequence ("we'll have a gay old time!") and thinking that Hannah Barbara was trying to indoctrinate homosexual culture in our youth or some nonsense.


Paul found a verse of the Old West
And quoted one that he liked best.
He then injected his own meaning,
Since scarcely was there one for gleaning,
Except that dated, cowboy talk
Might start folk thinkin' they loved the cock.
That ain't to say that it t'weren't so,
but that we'll surely never know.
The Stranger's readers ought scrutinize,
Before they hungrily swallow lies.
@32: Okay, I'll bite. What do you think people in 1892 meant when they said one man "blowed the other's stuff"? I'm seriously asking. What do you think?

That's exactly my point. We don't know, and so all we can do is speculate.
It may be just two straight guys, but - although we are not sure what lines like "blowed each other's stuff" mean, given the last part of the poem (repudiation by the religious, etc), chances are that the poem does indeed refer to two gay cowboys.

If this was not two gay guys, then it would almost be as if the poet didn't want anyone to understand the poem, which seems kinda crazy. I mean, you wouldn't make a poem cryptic to the point where the majority of people infer a meaning different from what you intended. Regardless of what cowboys back in 1892 thought of "homosexuality" it would be naive to assume they didn't know the existence of the phenomenon.
I do feel it necessary to add some historical context, in that this poem was written about two famous outlaws, Jeff "Soapy" smith and Joe Simon, longtime friend. I think this is more refuting the many many journalists and politicians at the time who decried Jeff smith as a public menace, when his main reputation was for fixed gambling and other confidence schemes in mining towns across the Rocky mountain mining camps and in Denver. Considering Jeff was very much in love with his wife, renowned for his defense of her, I think this poem was meant more as a celebration of the "Robin-hood"-esque role Smith really played in towns where most decried him as a gang lord opposed to all that is American lawful morality. I only know this though because my thesis happens to center around this historical figure.....I hope I don't come off as a know-it-all, just had to throw that out there....Either way, this poem is still so touching, no matter how you look at it.
I am a great grandson of "Jeff," Jefferson Randolph Smith II, alias "Soapy" Smith, the infamous confidence man and crime boss. I also wrote Jeff's biography, Alias Soapy Smith: The Life and Death of a Scoundrel. Lol, no, Jeff and Joe were not gay. They were best of friends and crime associates in Denver and Creede. In fact, they weren't even cowboys. William DeVere knew both men in Denver and Creede and was taking literary license. For more on "Soapy" Smith and Joe Simmons you might enjoy going to my sites.

Jeff Smith
Oh! Soapy Smith (Jeff Smith) here again. For those in Seattle, go take a closer look at "Sylvester" the petrified man in the Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe. In 1892 it originally belong to "Jeff" of the poem, Jeff and Joe. The story is in my book, as well as the story and details around the poem. You can find the book at the Magic Shop in the MarketPlace. Tell them Jeff sent you...

Jeff Smith

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