City Leaders Consider Lawsuit if Aggressive Soliciation Bill Passes

Comments

1
Told you so.

Is Tim Burgess going to pay out of his own pocket for wasting our money if this explodes in his face? Sigh.
2
An existing aggressive begging law requires evidence beyond a reasonable doubt and defendants are entitled to legal counsel


I guess that explains why no one bothers enforcing the existing law.

San Francisco passed a similar ordinance that "cost millions of dollars, most of the people affected were people of color, and most of the charges were thrown out,"


I was in SF a month and a half ago. That city has been cleaned up better than I ever could have imagined. I wasn't panhandled once.
3
Soliciate this!
4
Not to get too technical, but the court may regard this ordinance as a time / place / manner restriction on speech. If this is the case, an intermediate level of scrutiny (as opposed to the strict scrutiny standard you've cited) likely would apply. A lesser standard would make it easier for the ordinance to withstand legal challenge (at least on First Amendment grounds).
5
@1 ftw.

I foresee the adjacent suburbs of Shoreline, Mercer Island, Kirkland, and Bellevue suing us for pushing the homeless and beggars back to where they came from.

Because that is what this is about, but Tim thinks we won't call him on his "code words".
6
Just wait until the vagrants start using Pit Bulls to aid them in panhandling just like they do in SF.
7
The real problems in Seattle are caused by VIOLENT BLACK THUGS.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/394367_ho…
Seattle homicides for 2008:
An informed reading reveals that blacks committed 14 of the 28 killings in Seattle that year. Blacks make up 8% of Seattle.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/413827_ho…
Seattle homicides for 2009.
An informed reading reveals that twelve of the 21 murders in Seattle in 2009 were committed by blacks, only 8% of Seattle. Therefore over half the murders in Seattle are committed by blacks, even though blacks make up a tiny percentage of Seattle.

Of the 27 officers that were shot and killed by criminals in the last 20 years in King and Pierce county, 21 of them were shot by black men, even though black men make up less than 3% of the combined populations of those counties.

Let's look at some stats in Atlanta. According to cityrating.com Atlanta's population is 431,043. There are about 149 murders per year in Atlanta (4.5 times the national average).

Let's check out Portland, OR with a population of 545,271. Portland, with a population over 100,000 more than Atlanta, has about 27 murders.

Portland = 76% white, only about 7% black
Atlanta = 31% white, 61% black.

How about New York City?
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homici…
New York Times - New York City Interactive Homicide Map:
Blacks = 60% of the killers, 60% of the victims
Whites = 7% of the killers, 8% of the victims
Blacks = 26% of NYC population
Whites = 35% of NYC population

So what do we surmise with these stats? Answer: More black people equals more murders.

Obviously Seattle needs lots more blacks! Just ask "James Bible"!!!
8
please define "city leaders"....
9
i thought the city of seattle was supposed to view all its legislation through an equity and social justice lens?

so who is voting against this? Just nick

burgess is indeed a douche noogle.
10
"equity and social justice lens" = Marxist code meaning: grovel to, coddle, and throw money at violent black thugs and druggie drunk bums while demonizing the productive successful people who pay the taxes that support the scum.
11
"i thought the city of seattle was supposed to view all its legislation through an equity and social justice lens? "

Where does it say that?
12
good thing the ACLU and NAACP are on the job keeping you ignorant Seattle bigots in line.....
13
Now Apes Are Called People
14
@13 - this isn't the South. Please move back there.
15
I still don't see whats so bad about outlawing "aggressive" panhandling...

and

"The council needs to slow down before they pass this law."

Now we know where our "Seattle Process" comes from.
16
@15: It's already outlawed.
17
@16,

And no one enforces it.
18
Cool. Then this passing is no big deal. Meeting adjourned!
19
It's like a reverse SLAPP suit. Instead of corporations bankrupting activists with frivolous lawsuits, you have a portion of the activist community trying to scare the city with the threat of big legal bills.

I say a portion because there are a number of non-profits working to help the homeless downtown who support this bill. Ask Dominic who they are.

(And do read this thing [PDF] from the Human Rights Commission. Good for a lot of laughs.)
20
@17: Because you need evidence that someone has violated the law.
21
@20,

Uh huh. Well, certainly it's impossible to drag the cop who wrote the ticket into court to prove that the law was broken.
22
Alright, elenchos, let's discuss these groups!

YMCA:
Jane L. Lewis, Chair, Pine Street Group L.L.C.
Carolyn S. Kelly, Vice Chair, The Seattle Times
Barbara J. Dingfield, Vice Chair, The Giving Practice
Stephen V. Sundborg, S.J., Vice Chair, Seattle University
Nancy J. Cho, Secretary, Oki Developments, Inc.
John F. Vynne, Treasurer, Thunderbird Mining Systems
H. Stewart Parker, Assistant Treasurer


One chair of the YMCA of Greater Seattle, Jane Lewis, is a principal at Pine Street Group, which manages Pacific Place and is a member of the DSA. Carolyn Kelly is a representative of The Seattle Times, which has fought for tougher restrictions on the homeless. Stephen Sundborg is with Seattle University, a member of the DSA.

Let's pick a few from the other orgs mentioned before:

YWCA
https://www.ywcaworks.org/NetCommunity/P…

Top of the list is Charlene Blethen. I refer you back to The Seattle Times' membership in the DSA.

Plymouth Housing Group
http://www.plymouthhousing.org/leadershi…

President is Lynn Beck from Pine Street Group (DSA), which, again, manages Pacific Place.

Not ONE, not a SINGLE ONE, of people supporting this bill is without a direct tie to the DSA. Not one of them. Not even Union Gospel Mission.
23
Thank you, Baconcat. Probably no one will heed that factual stuff because who wants facts when you can simply throw mud at homeless people and liberals. But at least it's out there.
24
I hope they sue. I'd give them money for it. Not much cause I poor, but still.
25
"Uh huh. Well, certainly it's impossible to drag the cop who wrote the ticket into court to prove that the law was broken."

being a civil infraction, there is no right to counsel, poor people who appear in court will not have a lawyer appointed to represent them to challenge, there is also a lower burden of proof of guilt.
26
The pseudo-homeless street kids around Westlake Center cause about 90% of the aggression. Lets make a bill to ship them back to Everett. Police brutality encouraged.
27
Hobos are funny!