L. O. L.

Seriously, hilarious.

Not to be an insensitive old les who's totally out of touch with the youth of today...but what about Lambert House? Isn't it still running?

QYS is starting to get on my nerves. Can someone please explain to me what the hell they mean in terms of their "intellectual property... losing value"?

lay off these guys, Dan. There's nothing wrong with another place for LGBT youth to go- yes, even if they are duplicating lambert house's model. If Jen Graves learned about a group that was trying to open a new art studio and was applying for grant money to do so, i really doubt she'd be critical of their effort. Any new space for art is a good thing, and any new space for LGBT youth is a good thing.

They're like little gay bunny rabbits. With an agenda.

Wouldn't their grant applications sent to a public body be public documents and thus available for theft of IP anyway?

OK, that business about not posting their grant applications because their intellectual property would lose value? That's nuts. It's public record now, little bunnies.

I support the concept of queer youth space, or even better ANY kind of youth space, queer or otherwise -- plenty of at-risk youth in our city, of all kinds -- but this whole thing strikes me as an attempt to get in on the business of providing non-profit services for money (and street-organizer credibility) rather than a real need coming from the community.

I don't really get why these kids bug you so much, Dan. They seem to be hardworking young queers trying to do something for their community. Where's the harm?

The youth gives it to a person who runs a week news magazine? And that person is Dan Savage?

At that point, it would seem, it is on the record and publishable. Maybe I have forgotten the rules of journalism ethics, but I think it could be published without laws or ethics being violated.

Whether or not the intellectual property is stolen by someone is not the fault of the publication (the old don't kill the messenger credo).

However, an agreement is agreement and that is honorable.

The youth are taking this seriously and it's obvious a big issue for them that needs discussing.

I think we need queer space for everyone. The LGBT Center closed due to mismanagement. It if it stayed where it was, it would be bustling. Look at all the activity in that area of 12th and Pike now. It could have dedicated nights for youth to do whatever they wanted. Unfortunately, that is the past and we need to move on and create space for everyone.

Don't forget that part of the plan for the original center was to fund future housing for queer elders. Whatever happened to this? Shannon, you out there?

Really, rainbows?

Will someone teach those little queers the basics of interior decorating?

Well, I'm glad their little pet project gives them something to do after school. They do seem like the type that needs to be entertained...

@9, see @8. Once the grants come in and a lease is signed and paychecks don't bounce, all that ever happens is refining mission statements.

if they were just getting together and doing something nobody would be calling them out, but they're asking for money and that requires a little more planning and justification.

To those who are so critical of Queer Youth Space -- what were you doing when you were a teenager that was so worthwhile? I know I wasn't grantwriting and trying to create good in my community; I was smoking weed and doing bad school plays.

Of course they're annoying - they're teenagers. I told my younger cousin and godchild when she was 12 that she was about to enter a highly annoying period of her life during which I was just not going to associate with her. I was joking of course, but she WAS really annoying - which I expected because I was the same way at that age. As soon as she graduated high school she began the return to being her delightful self - or I guess a different, more mature delightful self. And no, I did not abandon her during her high school years, but we DID spend less time together because she had classes, a boyfriend, friends to socialize with, sports, etc. She's still really busy (and still - though barely - a teenager), but she's almost done growing into an adult - and it's been really cool to watch. Ok, I'll stop being sappy. But nothing wrong with Dan tweaking these guys - they're funny:)

@17, note the difference between being "so critical" and lightly mocking. A little teasing from those of us who've seen project queens come and go over the years won't make a whit of difference if this gang's the real deal.

@17, you got me there. All I ever did in my teens was stand around stoned and absorb rain water.

I hope those who are saying that people in their teen years can be annoying aren't under the illusion that they were an exception when they were teenagers.

QYS's activism deserves support and validation from the rest of us. Being active at such an early age makes it likely that in the future they will be leaders of the LGBT community. Their activism alone is to be admired.

@17 I was the president of my high school GSA, president of my university's queer activist group, was a committee member of a national feminist group, ditto that for an ethnic/racial minority womens group....hell, the list unfortunately goes on.

My criticism is that there seems to be a real lack of transparency especially given that they are requesting the assistance of all people (regardless of age). Furthermore, I can't help but think about the queer/queer-friendly youth groups already in existence (MPowerment, Lambert House, Bend-It, Vera). Sure, they're not owned by youth, but what about them? Are they no longer cutting the needs of youth? Or are we really at that point that every clique in the queer youth contingency needs their own space?

@20 has it right - replication of services (in the same neighborhood!) just means potentially fewer dollars for the services overall. Unless they can prove that their mission is radically different than what Lambert House's, why should a funder be interested?

That's not to say that I think these kids shouldn't be focusing on queer youth space - I just think they would be better served to work with the organization that exists for the same purpose they claim to be.

That's not just about their youth - many adults found non-profits thinking their organization is completely unique when there are already other groups doing the exact same work. There's just something about the idea of starting your OWN group that seems so irresistable, even though starting a 501c3 is a total headache.

Heather: "QYS's activism deserves support and validation from the rest of us. Being active at such an early age makes it likely that in the future they will be leaders of the LGBT community. Their activism alone is to be admired."

Activism for the sake of activism? That's foolishness. And wasteful.

The idea is key...what you're being an activist for. From what I can tell, the QYS is doing a rather poor job of selling anything more than a fuzzy bumpersticker of their idea.

I don't have a problem with wanting to know more about what they want our money for...

@14: Yes, just like singles bars. Singlegregation forever!!! People in relationships better not step through that door!

Really, it's about who you are looking to meet.

Tractor55: "if you want to know more about what they are doing email them, ask a question on the facebook, go to a meeting, or give them a call. Hell, even look at all the meeting notes online."

Why? I'm not actively searching for causes that I might give money to... The burden is on the group that wants me to give them my money to convince me that their ideas are worth my attention.

That's how it works.

And, although this is happening more rarely these days, it is also the job of journalists and columnists to notice things in the neighborhood and do the research that I as an individual might not be compelled to do as to better inform the people that read their newspaper or online postings.

I see these SLOG postings and the responses to these postings...indicating a rather unclear project and an inability to clearly articulate their message, and I'm as informed as I, a disinterested party at best, need to be...

It is up to them to get my attention and then prove the worthiness of their clearly defined idea--not up to me to play independent investigator just to have some basic questions answered.

And, back to my original point in response to Heather... certainly, I don't have to applaud them for their blurry efforts. There's lots of activism by young people that I would never applaud just for the sake of their being activists. Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind as an extreme example to prove the point.

QYS's fuzzy bumperstickers got the attention of The Stranger. They asked about it. The answers aren't all there yet, making the idea that QYS is advocating hard to jump in and support.

Right now, it's OK Soda. Sounds interesting...and I might even like the clever marketing...but I won't know if I might like it until someone can taste it and tell me what it's like.

#26 said: "Activism for the sake of activism? That's foolishness. And wasteful."

I am not advocating activism for its own sake. QYS seems to want to accomplish something and they are active in promoting it. I guess there are still people around who bristle at the concept of community activism. It should be encouraged. Their general goal of having more space for queer youth seems like a good goal. Even though I have questions about how this might be different than Lambert, etc. I don't understand some of animosity directed towards QYS. If people in the community have questions then sit down with them as peers and discuss what they want.

OK, I gently chided Dan for being so hard on these kids in the last endless thread, but I'm done with QYS. These kids are fucking morons.

I get the sense that those pushing for QYS got their panties in a bunch because some adult told them no to some request or another. The youth then threw a small tantrum and stormed off swearing they will start their own non-profit and do what they want, when they want, where they want. whaaaaaa.

It's too bad Dan Savage seemed to get that one bad quote from the QYS folks. I've met with QYS and heard about them from other community members, and they really have their shit together.

The intelletual property statement was a flub - community plans and groups need to be transparent, and in my experience the more things are open and shared the better they become - collaboration is key. That said, I understand if QYS doesn't want to announce plans that aren't completed. That's a really fast road to muddled messages and confusion.

In closing, don't judge QYS just from this one Slog post. There's a lot more to them than that. Like smart motivated people and a good business plan.

PS I was annoyed at first when I saw their "We need queer youth space signs" - everybody needs space to meet, why not just work toward a greater goal of a community center? But a small space for workshops and programming all their own isn't too much for a group like this to ask, and maybe someday when we get that community center (working on it!) they can relocate there.

While QYS (like any other good community group) should claim the neighborhood as their own too, it's not enough if you want regularly have workshops and event and meetings. I know - the Community Council often has to have committee meetings in coffee shops and it's really damn noisy. Outside doesn't work so well because the weather's crappy most of the year. It really isn't too much for QYS to work toward a room of their own.

I spent my queer youth disco dancing and sucking dick. It was amazing.

#11 brings up why these little scamps cant go unsupervised---it'lljust be tacky. they want 100% youth run, right? you want that as a teen, but its a turrible idea. these kids need to have at least a few adults around their space. conselors, activist leaders,something...doesnt even need to be super old folks. i mean,who trusts anyone over30?

@17: Back then? I was defending Planned Parenthood clinics to keep them open and clear, questioning a war, publishing an unauthorized newspaper at school, and trying to make my way alone as a transsexual girl. I was more likely to befriend individuals of interest than I was to blithely join a de facto social group like the one that QYS propose.

For the QYS readers: if this is ultimately about hooking up (and only you can answer that within your own conscience), then you might as well tell all the transsexual youth to go rot and fuck off to that criminal-hosting brickhouse called Ingersoll. In such spaces which QYS propose, the folks who frequently have to sit out the sidelines, unable to hook up on their terms, are the trans kids — not only if they're lesbian or gay, but worse so if they're straight. So unless you'll allow straight youth allies into that space where a trans kid can bring her or his boyfriend or girlfriend, respectively, then you have a dog and pony show to make pretty with the grant purse strings and no support from folks who could be both your elder defenders and most ardent benefactors.

Just sayin'.

I am not sure if you are trying to be an asshole for ratings and comments, or are just an asshole. In either case you have lost what little respect you had of mine Dan.

If you are curious and want to be supportive of the project, actually go out to coffee with the individuals involved, or even go to a meeting.

Stranger writers should be more involved with the community they write about so they aren't just scraping what they superficially perceive after one encounter or exposure.

I would wouldn't respond to Dominic Holden either. Last time he came to an event I helped put on he was entirely oblivious to anything being said, and assumed to know more about the topic than the professors and dedicated academics and activists in the room.

We need queer space, like we need indy media in the city. Because the shit that exists is disconnected from the community it serves and not fulfilling the values it was created under.

Kaladi sucks. I mean, honestly they rack up the prices of shittier quality coffee than the other 900 places around it. I went to high school right next to it and every time I wanted to write in the schools paper about how much i do not like Kaladi, I was always censored because once a student wrote an article with them as the least favorite and they were "hurt."

@43:

We need queer space, like we need indy media in the city. Because the shit that exists is disconnected from the community it serves and not fulfilling the values it was created under.

christ on a stale biscuit, dude. Why again do we need "indy" media in a city? And at what line does "indy" become "not-indy"? It's harder to distinguish than you think.

If QYS is for real, then allow its brainchildren to live for three months in Idaho, East Texas, Alabama, and Utah as a pre-req for infusing some perspective into the mix. Then after you all get back, make your case once more. Even with a good case, the preponderance of people not directly on side could easily point out that it's less a necessity and more a desire. Call a spade a spade and go read some Lacan.

Please. For real.

@ 34 -- All right, now you've pissed me off. I've been pretty quiet about QYS because of their inexperience, even though I agree that the burden of proof is on them to convince potential contributors that they have a viable and useful idea.

But @34, a.k.a. RIGHTEOUS QEER [sic], if you are a part of QYS then your comments are so egregiously offensive that I wouldn't want anything to do with your group. In your completely ungrammatical post, you wrote:

"IF TODAYS QUEER YOUTH HAD BEEN AROUND WHEN AIDS STARTED THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO EPIDEMIC"

Are you *serious*? You don't know that, and the facts don't back you up. Right now, 20 to 24 year olds are the most exposed to risk of contracting HIV. This is a generation born long after AIDS appeared and we learned how to prevent its spread -- unlike the gay men at the beginning of the epidemic who were exposed before anyone knew anything about it, who had no idea how it was transmitted. Your generation has always known that, and yet barebacking about teens and 20-somethings is rampant.

Even if it wasn't so easy to find facts that contradict you, your comment is so outrageously offensive. I hope for QYS' sake that you are not part of their group, because if you are, they're doomed to offend the very people they hope will fund them.

@46 - Are adults actually harassing gay youth? If so, that's terrible. But I haven't seen that yet. Simply questioning how the funding will be used and managed is hardly harassment. It's a fiduciary responsibility for any foundation that might support you.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with young queers trying to find a space in the world or developing a chosen family that's supportive. No one is questioning the concept, as far as I can see. But a lot more details will have to be explained before people are willing to give money to it. They want to make sure the money actually makes a difference and isn't wasted. As someone who has worked for a nonprofit, served on the board of nonprofits, and held dozens of fundraisers for nonprofits, trust be on this: people want to know that their donations are being used wisely.