I suggested "Designated 'graffiti walls' or designated public graffiti-art spaces (like a skate park, but a 'graffiti park') to provide an outlet for graffiti artists ('taggers' who don't make graffiti 'art' or 'murals' don't have any sympathy from me, though)."
Graffiti *art* should be supported, nourished, and encouraged. Tagging is just territorial pissing, only with paint instead of urine.
This crap about "enforcing existing law" is disingenuous.
On the one hand, the Mayor's cheerleaders think enforcing existing law is the solution to everything. On the other hand, the Mayor's cheerleaders think it's great that there will be no more cops hired to deal with the woeful shortage of bodies in uniform that Seattle has. Currently, there is no way you can tell the SPD to enforce any law without necessarily telling them to cut enforcement of something else. It's all zero sum at this point. And the well is about dry if you think you're going to get manna from heaven by cutting pot busts.
And McGinn is a freaking hero for making no real effort to find the money to hire the cops. According to the Mayor's irregular PR flacks here at the Slog.
The truth is McGinn has no plan for public safety and intends to do nothing. And if your view consists only of what you see from up Mike's ass, that looks pretty fucking good.
@12
corner of ravenna and brooklyn, also green car parked nearby somewhere you're welcome to hit up too, i got some graffiti on my recycling bin right now, its pretty boring but you are welcome to cover the whole house with cool graffiti as long as you show proof of your skillz. also, feel free to call me so I can meet ya. Thanks :)
Why oh why won't mayor McGinn deal with the awful PUBLIC SAFETY concerns of SPRAY PAINT and POOR PEOPLE ASKING FOR CHANGE?
Oh wait, nobody dies from spray paint or being asked for change. I meant he should ban motorcycles and throw their owners in jail for 5 years like the SPD does to poor black people with a crack rock.
out of all the items, I think the recycling bins are the probably the priority, those things border on the uglyness of a cement wall in an alleyway downtown....my tolerance for ugly tags is pretty low on those things so I will accept just about any skill level.
@10: Yes, fine, McGinn doesn't have a plan that improves public safety. But what is Burgess's plan other than fist-shaking threats of double secret probation? If there's one thing I can't tolerate, it's doing something stupid and ineffectual because "we must do something! think of the children!"
No dwight. The whole truth is that Seattle's violent crime rate is about middling. Not "really safe" but about as safe as most big cities. But our nonviolent crime rate is very high, particularly if you compare Seattle with other economically well-off cities. And if you really think about it, we ought to have a much lower violent crime rate, comparable to other wealthy cities instead of in the middle of the pack with cities that have been devastated by unemployment.
The SPD doesn't solve burglaries, car thefts, or other crimes where nobody is bleeding. They don't deal with graffiti, or bike thefts, or any of that stuff.
So if you like being ripped off and knowing they won't catch the guy that did it, McGinn's your guy.
I'm always perversely amused when the city's idea of beautifying an area from the vileness that is graffiti is painting everything a uniform battleship gray, like the Mercer underpass beneath Aurora. There's been some really nice stuff painted there (and, yes, blah tags) and, within four or five months, the gray is back.
Bleah. That stretch of road could do with some color.
No dwight. The whole truth is that Seattle's violent crime rate is about middling. Not "really safe" but about as safe as most big cities.
In 1993 there were 76 murders in Seattle. In 2009 there were 22. We live in a really safe city. The fact that it isn't as safe as other American cities doesn't make it not a safe city -- it means that most American cities are safe, and Seattle is about average.
Compare Seattle to Mexico City. Compare it to Mumbai or Sao Paulo or Jakarta. We do alright. And we're much much safer than most American cities were in the relatively recent past.
@19: Pretty much everyone else is your guy, too, in that instance. I don't see anyone with a plan to improve the SPD's law enforcement capacity. I see people with plans on how to blame their political opponents for the lack of money for new officers, and I see people with plans to hassle panhandlers and threaten dire consequences for the occasional tagger that actually gets caught. Does any of that prevent my bicycle from getting stolen?
@21: Not about the graffiti, no, but we've seen his panhandling bill, and there's a pretty clear pattern. He wants to set himself up as the law-and-order mayoral candidate in 2013, and he's willing to rouse populist anger by outlawing the easiest and most obvious scapegoats he can find. Even if it doesn't prevent anyone's bike from getting stolen, or stop a single mugging. Useless.
I suggested open and free public spaces--give the north side of city hall on the street level as a public space, that anyone can do anything with, including the city painting over at will, along with other high visibility areas.
No law is going to stop a drive by tagger that takes 20 seconds and barely breaks stride.
But seriously -- fucking graffiti? Doesn't Burgess have anything better to do with his time and our civic money than do a graffiti survey? Hey, I know. How about figuring out how to close the budget hole or prevent the city from being on the hook for cost overruns on the tunnel? Do your job, Burgess, or you're out come next election cycle, when we recycle you back to the private field.
We have it totally fucking backwards in America: if you want to preserve the climate you have to put up with fucking taggers, fuckers breaking into your car, fuckers stealing plants out of your yard, fuckers letting their dogs shit on the sidewalk in front of your house, etc. If you live in the fucking suburbs and pollute like shit, you don't. It's totally backwards. So nail the fuckers to the wall.
Have you been to the yards before they clean them up? It still happens. You just don't see it in your city. If you even live in the city. And even if a burner hadn't come into Manhattan in 25 years, it doesn't negate my assertion: they look great.
"Compare Seattle to Mexico City. Compare it to Mumbai or Sao Paulo or Jakarta."
ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED???
Seattle is nowhere near as huge as any of those cities are. PLUS SEATTLE IS ABOUT 70 PERCENT WHITE.
"We do alright. And we're much much safer than most American cities were in the relatively recent past."
well to which American cities do you refer? Baltimore? New Orleans? Gary, Indiana? Flint, MI? Atlanta? Detroit? See that part about the seventy percent above.
Romans drew penises on walls and told you who to have a good time with. Graffiti is an older and grander tradition than America.
Just sayin'.
Not that I'm supportive of tagging on private property. It ought to be legal to paintball the shit out of anyone you see tagging stuff. If you're going to tag you should at least have to do it stealthily.
"In addition, I think we should have more private partnership to clean up graffiti on public property—like, we can clean up tags around the neighborhood and eat pizza and take a flask and play music on a boom box and it would be fun."
LOLZZZZZZ...because you'd be the first one out there? Oh hippies!
There are devices which, from blocks away, can detect the hiss of a spray paint can and triangulate the location for police to arrive. Nobody bothers because people arrested for vandalism (let's call it what it is) are generally released without punishment.
Why not reduce the penalties? If I was a cop and saw a 15 year old spraypainting something and my only option was giving a $5k fine or a year in jail, I'd think twice before I busted him. If I could give less, like $500 or something, something that would hurt but not have life-wrecking effects I'd be more likely to do that.
What a dumb dumb dumb conversation for the city to initiate. What good can possibly come of this? I can summarize the results for you without even looking at a single response: Some people hate graffiti, mostly older people and business owners. Some people don't hate it, mostly young people and artist types. It's illegal in every city and town in the country, if not the world...but the kids still do it.
I can also summarize the city's response: Penalties must be harsher. Heads must roll. This proves that only _____ can be an effective new mayor.
seriously? i mean, really? let's see what mayor mcBeardo does about this "problem"!
lastly, will someone please cover up those awful "HENRY" murals that i see polluting so many walls north of the ship canal. those things are beyond UGLY!
The "graffiti rangers" once covered up 4 murals in the pike pine area which were on private property (three on and around the Winston building, one on then New City Theater), and the swaths of gray, which appeared on months-old (not "problem vandalism" at all) privately-sanctioned art. Business owners were not happy. Roaming around and occasionally painting any graffiti, be it tags, throw-ups, or full blown art, should be done differently- with judiciousness, immediately, with permission, and properly (roll out a nice coat of paint for ef's sake- blotches are worse than tags imo)
I would 87,000 times rather look at dumb tags than billboards. My suggestion? Send the taggers to art class. Make them make better graffiti. Or hell, make them do community service cleaning shit up. At least the punishment would be relative to the "crime".
No changes to existing laws required!
Graffiti *art* should be supported, nourished, and encouraged. Tagging is just territorial pissing, only with paint instead of urine.
Yes.
I suggest we use the property fenced off by private landowners that belongs to public parks and use it to keep hungry pit bulls and taggers in.
Two enter - one leaves.
Are comments on blogs a form of graffiti?
If so, Will In Seattle is Turk 182.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I064sA-5x…
On the one hand, the Mayor's cheerleaders think enforcing existing law is the solution to everything. On the other hand, the Mayor's cheerleaders think it's great that there will be no more cops hired to deal with the woeful shortage of bodies in uniform that Seattle has. Currently, there is no way you can tell the SPD to enforce any law without necessarily telling them to cut enforcement of something else. It's all zero sum at this point. And the well is about dry if you think you're going to get manna from heaven by cutting pot busts.
And McGinn is a freaking hero for making no real effort to find the money to hire the cops. According to the Mayor's irregular PR flacks here at the Slog.
The truth is McGinn has no plan for public safety and intends to do nothing. And if your view consists only of what you see from up Mike's ass, that looks pretty fucking good.
Gang graffiti's the sign of a bigger problem and should be dealt with.
Great, where's your house?
corner of ravenna and brooklyn, also green car parked nearby somewhere you're welcome to hit up too, i got some graffiti on my recycling bin right now, its pretty boring but you are welcome to cover the whole house with cool graffiti as long as you show proof of your skillz. also, feel free to call me so I can meet ya. Thanks :)
Oh wait, nobody dies from spray paint or being asked for change. I meant he should ban motorcycles and throw their owners in jail for 5 years like the SPD does to poor black people with a crack rock.
The SPD doesn't solve burglaries, car thefts, or other crimes where nobody is bleeding. They don't deal with graffiti, or bike thefts, or any of that stuff.
So if you like being ripped off and knowing they won't catch the guy that did it, McGinn's your guy.
(There is copious data on this, over at the FBI.)
Bleah. That stretch of road could do with some color.
Burgess hasn't actually proposed anything yet. He's just providing options to answer a poll question.
Settle down.
In 1993 there were 76 murders in Seattle. In 2009 there were 22. We live in a really safe city. The fact that it isn't as safe as other American cities doesn't make it not a safe city -- it means that most American cities are safe, and Seattle is about average.
Compare Seattle to Mexico City. Compare it to Mumbai or Sao Paulo or Jakarta. We do alright. And we're much much safer than most American cities were in the relatively recent past.
@21: Not about the graffiti, no, but we've seen his panhandling bill, and there's a pretty clear pattern. He wants to set himself up as the law-and-order mayoral candidate in 2013, and he's willing to rouse populist anger by outlawing the easiest and most obvious scapegoats he can find. Even if it doesn't prevent anyone's bike from getting stolen, or stop a single mugging. Useless.
That said, taggers are despicable evil trolls.
No law is going to stop a drive by tagger that takes 20 seconds and barely breaks stride.
But seriously -- fucking graffiti? Doesn't Burgess have anything better to do with his time and our civic money than do a graffiti survey? Hey, I know. How about figuring out how to close the budget hole or prevent the city from being on the hook for cost overruns on the tunnel? Do your job, Burgess, or you're out come next election cycle, when we recycle you back to the private field.
Make it happen!
THat's because it has so few black people here in Whitopia. Sorry, but it's a fact. 8% of population and dropping. You can hear the gunfire from Kent.
You haven't been to NYC in 25 years have you.
Post your address or STFU.
If you support laws making selling spray paint to minors and consider yourself a liberal you might have some cognitive dissonance.
Tagging a tree is not cool
ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED???
Seattle is nowhere near as huge as any of those cities are. PLUS SEATTLE IS ABOUT 70 PERCENT WHITE.
"We do alright. And we're much much safer than most American cities were in the relatively recent past."
well to which American cities do you refer? Baltimore? New Orleans? Gary, Indiana? Flint, MI? Atlanta? Detroit? See that part about the seventy percent above.
Just sayin'.
Not that I'm supportive of tagging on private property. It ought to be legal to paintball the shit out of anyone you see tagging stuff. If you're going to tag you should at least have to do it stealthily.
LOLZZZZZZ...because you'd be the first one out there? Oh hippies!
I can also summarize the city's response: Penalties must be harsher. Heads must roll. This proves that only _____ can be an effective new mayor.
lastly, will someone please cover up those awful "HENRY" murals that i see polluting so many walls north of the ship canal. those things are beyond UGLY!
We like our murals.
Also, spray paint in the nostrils for any tagger caught in the act. Half a can at least.